I want to enjoy life more, to feel lighter and go easier…

[Grateful1]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the ‘me’ -the physical body and the character traits - I believe myself to be, is not all that I am, is not the ‘essence’ of what I really am.
When sitting I can feel that the boundaries of the body seem to dissolve, and I see that thoughts can be arbitrary, repetitive, or as Vince says “98% rubbish”. So what am I?

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to know what I am, really, to live in that place and to break through this illusion of a small, limited, conditioned self as being all I am. I am hoping that this realization will help not to take myself so seriously.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Insight, pointing, understanding. A conversation which helps me breakthrough my limited experience of what I perceive to be reality. Maybe something with clear examples (and homework?) to help me see clearly.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve done meditation on an off for years, but often with mantras or mindfulness practice. There’s a belief that if I did hours and hours of silent practice I would ‘breakthrough’, but not sure if that’s just a belief.
I first started to just sit and listen to silence and do some self inquiry during Covid-19 when I joined an online nondual sangha. I left about a year ago, because I felt got caught up with techniques and was just going through the motions.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

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[Elad]

Hello Grateful1,

My name is Elad, I am a guide here, and I can start with you now.

Are you ready to start? What may I call you here?

[Grateful1]

Hey Elad,
Thanks for your reply. I have just moved from London England to a rented flat in Spain. My brother died of pancreas cancer a year ago and I moved to London to help him and to care for my dad who has alzheimer's. I finally put him in a care home and moved to a new town in Spain with my partner. So life has felt quite tumultuous these past 2 years. I feel quite identified at the moment with my 'story', and at the same time there is relief when I say to myself that everything is just turning out the way it is, and that nothing is in my control, that I just have to have complete trust that everything will just play out as it will. Then there's an answer that comes which says that this is spiritual bypassing, because I don't want to take an active roll in my 'life'.
My 'formal' meditation practice has fallen away these past 2 months, since requesting a guide. I see that there's a belief that it is very helpful for me to sit daily because it is where I can zoom out from the pull of mind.

Is this enough?
Thanks,
Tash

[Elad]

Hi Tash,

This is a good start. This process is not about becoming passive in life... Rather it is about seeing that both active and passive are spontaneous manifestations of "the whole". More on this soon, maybe. And good you already have some sense of the relief that comes with not resisting what is, or thinking one should change what is... Again, we will come back to that this does not mean passivity or a free pass from the challenges and duties of life.

Now, for starters, here is a standard message, like a bit of foundation setting:


"The basics of how this works is that I’ll give you questions and exercises to help you investigate whether there is a separate self. Your task is to look directly at your alive experience in the here and now and report on your experience without resorting to belief (yours, mine or anybody elses), analysis and imagination. Try to approach these exercises with “beginner’s mind,” setting aside everything you know about spiritual teachings, science and philosophy. Use all questions and exercises as a door to LOOK AT what is actually there and what is not. Also, it is not about creating any special experience or dissolving any part of normal experience - including "selfing" or "ego". Rather, the questions and exercises will help you to see what is already there in normal experience and what is not, and what is the nature of what is there and what is not. It's all about looking closely at ordinary experience.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQs of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Importantly, the FAQ points out not to expect this process to be cure for or replacement for ordinary life challenges, mental health issues, everything that has to do with "cleaning up" and "growing up" and healing, beside "waking up", in other words learning to love and function wholesomely in normal life...

When you reply to a questions, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. This will make our dialogue easier to follow. Please watch the video below to learn how to use the quote function.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ


The website goes down at times. To avoid losing your work, you may find it helpful to copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there, and then copy and paste them to your thread.

Let’s try to post daily, if we can. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, just let me know. I’ll do so as well. If I don't seem to answer for more then 2 days, write to eladexplore1111@gmail.com - maybe there is some system error.

Let me know if you have any questions, something to share about your reaction, expectation or experience with regards to the FAQ, or anything else coming up wanting attention, in relation to this message and the FAQ!"

[Grateful1]

Hey Elad,

Thanks for the message. I have looked at the links and all okay.
Will just check that I have understood the quotation instructions by leaving you a short comment below:

share about your reaction, expectation or experience with regards to the FAQ

I understand that this guiding process is not 'therapy'; at the same time I see that there is an expectation here to feel happier, or at least more accepting of everything just as it is. I am open to explore and question this expectation.

Speak soon,
with gratitude,
Tash

[Elad]

Hi Tash, good! Of course there is a wish to feel better or more peaceful. Buddha supposedly said "I teach only suffering and the end of suffering", I doubt any honest and aware person would not wish liberation (from suffering) from waking up. So for now, allow this wish to exist as a WISH rather then an EXPECTATION, and understand that this shift might support more peace (certainly could as part of a larger liberation and harmonization process), but might also produce new types of suffering (say because of undoing defenses and other habits that maintain a type of "stable experience").

What does reading this bring up for you?

Do you want to enter this work with a true sense of not knowing, and be truly open to discover what feels true and what feels helpful, from the inside, one step at the time?

[Grateful1]

Hi Elad,
Thank you.

I wrote this in spurts yesterday. Trying not to write very long answers, to keep things short. But not sure if it is coherent when I distil.

I understand that to hold on to an expectation of happiness (or anything) might be unhelpful, and that a 'wish' to feel better, holds a more open energy in this dance of life. I want to remain open to whatever comes.

I have also heard that the awakening process can be a very tumultuous and destabilizing experience. I imagine that as a guide you might feel a certain 'responsibility' in taking people to the 'edge'. I acknowledge that there is something about this idea that I find unsettling, even frightening. There are questions like: "will I be able to let go of everything? "of my 'good girl' persona?", What will happen if I fall apart completely?"
And how incredibly liberating to let everything fall, (is this 'everything' really just all my ideas about stuff? Is there nothing to let fall really?)
Somewhere there is a belief that I won't be strong enough, capable enough, but I know that is not true: The past 2 years have brought many changes, many losses - of people, homes, ways of working. And what got me through all that was coming back to knowing that it is not 'me' that is doing anything. My life seems to be full of coincidences and fortuitous happenings when I just step out of my own way.

So when you ask:

Do you want to enter this work with a true sense of not knowing, and be truly open to discover what feels true and what feels helpful, from the inside, one step at the time?

my answer is YES!!

Hope my ramblings are clear.
With gratitude,
Tash

[Elad]

Beautiful and sincere, thank you Tash.

Okay, so lets continue here:

Read the following sentence many times -

"There is no separate self in control, choosing and doing things. There never were and never will be".

While reading and after reading the sentence experience what happens. Let go of expectations of any particular thing to happen, expectation will only blind attention. Stay in the space of "what is there and what is not".

Write me what is experienced...

[Grateful1]

There is no separate self in control, choosing and doing things. There never was and there never will be.

Hi Elad,

There was lots of mind stuff. Thoughts about "Yes, I have heard this before, and I know it to be true, but what is next?". There was a feeling of irritation for a while, like this is a waste of time.
Then I lay on the ground and stretched my body and tried just staying really open and letting the words melt in to the space.
Then came: "then who am I? What am I? 'what is self, and control? No answers.

Then I continued to repeat the words and started to feel very tired and fell asleep, deeply, for nearly an hour. I wonder if this was also fatigue that was here and in doing the 'contemplation' I stopped all the busyness and real fatigue was allowed. Or it was resistance to what the words mean for the ego. Like it makes no sense whatsoever, because how does anything ever get done if no Self is in control making decisions?

And where do the thoughts come from?

I can see that actually all my thoughts just seem to arise spontaneously as if from nowhere, and are often completely arbitrary. But then MY thoughts are different to YOUR thoughts, and MY back pain is not YOURS. Doesn't that mean that my Self is different and separate?
This body gets up and charges the laptop. It feels like there is a choice there. Or does it just happen? If there's not a choice, no separate person deciding, there's a feeling of being kind of like a robot, like a program of stimulus or condition and response.

There are moments where I don't know what the words mean anymore. They are just sounds.
I slept badly last night. In the morning I again repeated the sentence. I felt very relaxed, more relaxed that I have done in a while, in fact a bit spaced out. I walked out in the sunshine and there was a street musician playing. Things felt trippy and I felt great just walking and listening to the music. My husband looked at me and said I looked and was acting kind of strange. I felt kinder towards him than I have for a while, less easily triggered than usual.
This afternoon, I sat alone repeating the sentence, intending to write my reply to you. I fell asleep again.

I'll send this now, before I fall asleep again 😅
With much gratitude,
Tash

[Elad]

Dear Tash, lovely immersing here...


A few clarifications... Yes there is a concept of self that is needed for normal functioning. You have your name, not mine, and your thoughts, not mine. This process will not undo any of that. What it can reveal is that everything we conventionally call me, mine, myself (my thoughts, my feelings, my choices, my body, etc) is a mysterious manifestation of the whole, like everything else. No real separate self anywhere to control or be any of it.

On to the point "it makes me feel like a robot". Yes, it can feel this way if "no self" is taken on AS A BELIEF or A CONVICTION. Which is NOT AT ALL what we aim for. I believe Buddha said somewhere that believing in no self is worse then believing in self. It might lead to nihilism and etc. Therefore, it is really important not to buy into any belief or conviction here, even if it sounds very reasonable. Instead we aim to keep LOOKING until the belief in self is authentically dropped. When that happens, there is simplicity and freedom in it, and no love or energy is lost. Don't try to figure out how it is so. Mind stuff is only mind stuff, not our point here. So lets continue exploring DIRECT EXPERIENCE.

Lets start with thoughts. Look some more at thoughts. Is there a you anywhere that control what the next thought is? Or when it comes?

And lets look at choice. Choose three numbers (here is an example for me: 3, 13, 42). Where did they come from? Is there a self anywhere choosing the choices? Or does choosing just mysteriously happen by itself?

Try also with choices that have desire involved: Do you want a beer or a smootie right now? Do you want a vacation to Hawaii or Nepal next fall? REALLY LOOK how the choices happen. Is there a self controlling whatever preferences, associations, etc etc come up and what choice happens? Or it just happens by itself?

[Elad]

Ps. Please rewatch the video about using the quote function. It should look like this, if I quote the text I just wrote here:

Ps. Please rewatch the video about using the quote function. It should look like this, if I quote the text I just wrote here:

P.ps. (more important): Great with the felt relaxation and less triggering... Good signs of process moving... And of course not anything to hold on to, it can go in all directions... And regarding the falling asleep. Yes could be harmonization of contemplation allowing wholesome sleep. Could be resistance. I get a feeling it is the first one, at least in part... But not something you and I need to analyze... Just stay open and continue to look in accordance with questions, and report honestly what is experienced. The rest will take care of itself.

[Grateful1]

Hi Elad,

Thank you for the notes. They are clear.

Is there a you anywhere that control what the next thought is? Or when it comes?

No. I can't find the me that controls thoughts or when they come; the thoughts appear to simply emerge, in an almost continuous stream, like the thought about these words I am writing now, and then this thought about whether that was a good example, and what I'm going to have for supper... etc.
I tried 'deciding' that I was going to 'think about' how the chair next to me was constructed, but when I try to find the 'beginning' point of each thought (e.g. why choose the chair and not the table? ) I can't. And they jump about all over the place and are often completely arbitrary.

Is there a self anywhere choosing the choices? Or does choosing just mysteriously happen by itself?

I observed how I was scratching my arm, in response to an itch, but there was no feeling of choice, no time line even, I just found myself scratching. The same has happened over the course of the day in many different situations where I could not find the self choosing. Even when choosing what to drink, there 'seemed' to be a a 'thinking' about what to have, like 'what do I feel like?', but then the choice just seemed to appear. I couldn't say there was a 'me' making the choice.
Like right now, the thought came that "I'm hungry" and then the decision that I am going to get something to eat. It 'feels' like it comes from 'me', but if I sit here with that thought/decision, waiting to see if I go to the kitchen or not, I can't find the moment that the movement to get up happens, or where it comes from.

(I have heard that using brain scans they can show that the moment we think we make a decision is actually milliseconds later than the brain has already decided.)

I will continue to observe my direct experience.

with gratitude,
Natasha

[Elad]

Dear Tash,

This is all very clear!

Like right now, the thought came that "I'm hungry" and then the decision that I am going to get something to eat. It 'feels' like it comes from 'me'

Look closer at this "it feels like it comes from me". What does that actually mean? What does it refer to in direct experience? Is there any real enduring center or content that correlates to this supposed "feeling of you"?