Letting Go

[swsimons]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

The experience is seeing the color red.

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

The color red is experienced since that is the color that is seen.

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

The label suggests that the color green should be experienced, not red. The label is not the experience.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

‘Green’ is just a label that overlays the color red. Green is not experienced at all other than as the word and the thought of the color green, not the actual experience of seeing the color green.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

The redness is only affected by changing the label as a thought, not the actual experience of seeing the color red.

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

The label has no affect on the reality of seeing the color red.

Let me know what is SEEN.

[Anastacia42]

Exactly. Now let's bring this together.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[swsimons]

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

What is known for sure is the experience of seeing the colors of the apple, the shading, reflection of light. The sensation of the smooth skin is also known. The thought and labeling of the apple is known.

The content of thought describes the apple as big or small, smooth or rough, red and green. Thought describes the experience of the apple.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

The apple is real, the label ‘apple’ is just a label and a thought. Experience of the apple is real, seeing the apple, seeing the colors, sensation of touch, and the thoughts.

The apple is experienced and is real, but the label ‘apple’ can not be found in actual experience.

However, is an apple actually known?

The apple is actually known only in the experience of seeing the colors, the sensation of touching it, tasting, smelling, and the thought of the apple. The label ‘apple’ is a concept used to describe these experiences.

[Anastacia42]

Please watch this & review your answers.

https://youtu.be/uAXtO5dMqEI

Loving

[swsimons]

So, like the spoon, the apple isn't real. It is just our thoughts and interpretations of colors, sensation, taste that is creating the actual experience, not an 'apple'. Apple cannot be found in actual experience, because there is no apple, it is the colors, sensation, thought. Sorry if I am saying the same thing, just trying to get a grasp of this. Actual experience cannot be the content of the sound, thought, color, smell, etc. because those are just happening, coming and going, the actual experience is only the sound, thought, color, etc., not the content. I think what I am saying then is that say the color red, red being the content, isn't the actual experience, the actual experience is only the seeing of the color. Just like the hearing of the sound of keys typing on the keyboard isn't the actual experience, the actual experience is only the sound. Am I on the right track with this?

[swsimons]

I took a look back at the question about the experience of the word ‘Green’ that was in red font and that the actual experience is seeing the color red not green as the label suggests. For the Apple, the label Apple isn’t the actual experience, the actual experience is seeing the color red and green, the sensation when touched and the taste when eaten. The label ‘Apple’ isn’t the actual experience so ‘Apple’ cannot be known and is therefore not real.

[Anastacia42]

Now you've got it!

those are just happening, coming and going, the actual experience is only the sound, thought, color, etc., not the content.

Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.


Now, can you find any "self" in Actual Experience?

[swsimons]

Now, can you find any "self" in Actual Experience?

Actual experience is the sound, image, smell, taste, thought, sensation. Is there a “self” that can be found in any of these? No, in those there cannot be a self found. In order for a self to be found in actual experience, the self would have to be the sound, the image, the sensation, the taste, the smell, the thought and it isn’t possible for the self to be these, so there can’t be a self in actual experience. Is there a self that is observing or perceiving the actual experience? No, I can’t say there is a self either that is observing or perceiving the actual experience. The actual experience is just happening, nothing attached to it and nothing observing it, just happening.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Loving,

[swsimons]

How does it FEEL to see this?

Honestly, it feels confusing to see this. Best way I can describe it is surreal. I get it, but I still question how is it possible.

[Anastacia42]

Confusion is understandable. This can take your questioning, but don't get stuck in doubt. Trust what you see. Relax into it.

Here is another pointer to try :

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving

[swsimons]

How is the movement controlled?

The movement isn’t controlled, it just happens. Flipping of the hand appears to occur in actual experience as image, seeing the hand flip, and sensations in the wrist where the movement occurs. There is nothing in control of the movement.

Does a thought control it?

No, a thought is not controlling it. In fact the movement happens and only after the movement happens does a thought about the movement show up. The thought is not occurring prior to the movement and the thought is not controlling the movement.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, a controller cannot be located anywhere.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

The decision to turn the hand over isn’t made, it is just happening. There is no specific decision point that is preceding the actual turning over of the hand. The turning of the hand is just happening.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Nothing chose the right hand for the exercise. How did the choice happen then? It isn’t clear how the right hand was chosen, but a specific chooser can not be found. I suppose it is because the right hand is my dominant hand and that’s why it naturally completed the exercise.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

I can not find a separate individual, or anything that chose to turn the palm up or down. The turning happened without any influence, decision point, or entity controlling the choice to turn the palm up or down. It appears to just happen in the actual experience as seeing image and sensations.

[Anastacia42]

All true.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Can you now say 100% there's is no separate "self?"


Loving,

[swsimons]

How does it FEEL to see this?

How does it feel to see that there is nothing in control of the hand movement, the turning of the palm up and down, that it is just happening? I can’t actually say that it feels like anything. There are thoughts that it is interesting, but really no feeling attached to it.

Can you now say 100% there's is no separate "self?"

I can say for certain there is no separate self. The only sense of any doubt is that I was expecting (or wanting/hoping) for some big AHA when it was finally found, but it doesn’t have that feeling, relief, or realization at all whatsoever. Nothing has changed other than the knowing that what happens happens (actual experience of
Images, sounds, sensations, thoughts, smell, and taste) and none of it has to be or is controlled by a separate self.

[Anastacia42]

Okay.

Has there been a shift in perception?

Has seeking stopped?

That's what we're looking for to prove this wasn't just an intellectual exercise. That's why I keep asking about Feelings. specifically the truth feelings - expansion relaxation. etc.

Loving