Seeing through the self-illusion with a guide

[willingToSee]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand by there is no inherent real self, that there is no separate real entity running the body, thinking the thoughts , making decisions and doing actions.
I have read many of the books listed in the section : https://www.liberationunleashed.com/books/recommended/
So I totally understand this mentally but I don't have the experience yet.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking at being guided and shown the way so I can wake up from this identification with a fictious self.
I tried doing this work on my own but most of the time, I get frustrated and move to another book on non duality or
Youtube video hoping to find a shortcut or a pointer that would help me get it quickly.
I feel blocked at the moment after reading every book I can put my hand on, I am fed up with watching Youtube videos that keep saying there is nothing to do, there is no one to do it and you are already awake....
My seeker persona is desperate and about to give up because it can't see any way moving forward.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be honest, I don't know; just being with someone who saw through the illusion of self makes me feel motivated and eager to stay the course.
I expect the guide to be leading me through focusing on some inquieries.....
Being with a guide I don't think my mind would escape to another book or Youtube video and I will have to face whatever blocks show up
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? In terms of seeking, I have been seeking for a long time, more than 25 years, my seeking was motivated by suffering, not fitting in, feeling that something is missing,
So I devoured many self-help, psychology and spirituality books wishing to find a relief, then I stumbeled upon non-duality....
In the last 4 months, non duality came into focus again and I read more than 20 books on non duality and watched tons of Youtube videos...
I haven't done any self inquiry neither meditation, I have a feeling inside that there has to be a way to liberation without meditation and dogmas.
I tried some of the direct experience exercises and they feel true at the moment but after that I don't see any shift happening, it still looks like there is a self running the show

How did you find Liberation Unleashed? It's a long story. I was browsing my kindle books then found a book called "How to see through the self-illusion (Instruction Manual) by Christiane Michelberger" I felt drawn to the book and I didn't even remember how did I bought it and did not read it yet. So I read the book in one setting and I was intrigued by the content of the book, which mentioned Liberation Unleashed and its guides.... Then I bought the book Gateless Gatecrashers and started reading it, it felt like I was about to awaken just reading the book, but I didn't know what happened and I got distracted ...

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Admin note for willingToSee: You can only see answers in your thread when you’re logged in. Please check your thread regularly while logged in, as email notifications don’t always work.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, some people do wake up just reading the Gateless Gatecrashers book.

You are asking for a shortcut. so I'm going to give you one, but if that doesn't "work" we can start at the beginning. It doesn't take that long for some people. For others it takes months.

These are from Angelo Dillulo.

https://youtu.be/fEv7UF8evQ4?si=0quQlOl6c4S5QvUU


https://youtu.be/mtwi2B2a0_0?si=tISlLoIix7FSzCUD

https://youtu.be/Nw6tBnoMZyk?si=ddE4H5bzYSgxG_lS

Loving,

[willingToSee]

Thanks for the reply and for your time helping me to see through the self-illusion.
When I saw the email from LU this afternoon, I felt fear coursing through my body, very interesting !
I will watch the videos and report back.

With gratitude

[Anastacia42]

Yes, that can happen.

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[willingToSee]

Okay, now I see the difference between looking and thinking, the example of colored socks is very clear and spot on.
Looking is easy and guarantees the result 100% all the time.
I will watch the direct looking process for fear and see how it goes.
Thanks

[willingToSee]

Hello Stacy,
Happy new year 2026,

This is the summary of what I have done since my last post.
I watched the videos on fear and followed along, and the fear diminished very significantly.
I watched the other videos on awakening you provided. No shift yet.
I read what you said yesterday about direct experience many times:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience.
We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I tried to find the 'I/me' in my direct experience and here are my findings:

1-Seeing, seeing happening, the mind labelling everything by saying the names of objects but no 'I/me' can be found at all.

2-Hearing, this one was very funny. I couldn't hear directly at the beginning and it took some time to start hearing the sound and not describing it with concepts.
For example while hearing I would say 'car passing by' but checking with the direct experience of hearing I couldn't find any car. So I would do it again then this time say 'car engine making noise' then come to the test: Is there any engine or car in the direct experience of hearing and I found none, all those are concepts...
the third time I would say 'noise' then checking with my direct experience I could not find noise in the hearing because noise is a judgement of the mind.
It drove me crazy at the beginning.... then at some point I listened again without the mind and there was only sound. To be honest I can say that before this experiment, I have never heard anything except the concepts of the mind.
When I listened to the sounds, the experience of hearing looked direct and very close.(no 'I/me' can be found at all during the hearing).

3-Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
It took me many rounds of experimenting with the feelings just to get to the raw sensations at the end, it's not an easy thing to strip the descriptions, judgements and concepts of the mind. While feeling the raw sensations no 'I/me' can be found at all.

4-Tasting was also a bit difficult but after I got the hang of the other senses, it was easy to focus on the sensations of tasting rather than describing the flavors.. (no 'I/me' can be found at all).

5-Smelling was not difficult to experience directly but the thoughts jump quickly to describe it and judge it as good or bad. It took me some time to have a direct experience of smelling with a delayed mind commentary.
(no 'I/me' can be found at all during the smelling).

6-Thoughts Arising (but not their content).
This one was the hardest of all the others, each time I tried to have a direct experience of thought, I find my attention already hooked by the content of thoughts.
It only occurred twice today when I noticed the thought arising without being sucked into the content. I am still practicing.
What I noticed is my mind hates to do this practice, each time I do it, either it distracts me or gave me a headache if I stayed the course.
In this direct experience, when I looked for 'I/me' I could easily find a vague sense of a 'me' entity in the thoughts. I don't know how to describe it but it looks like thoughts about 'me' give rise to a sense of 'me' entity.
I could see clearly during my direct experience that the 'me' entity is not the thinker because the thoughts arise on their own and there is no way to predict them. It's puzzling, what this 'me' is doing there, I mean what is its purpose, if it can't even control the thoughts or do any other things.
I stayed with this for a long time and all I can say is it seems like the sense of 'me' is only something generated by thoughts about me (or self referencing thoughts).

I tried to find more about these self referencing thoughts and they are a bunch of thoughts about 'me' mostly projected in the future. Something that will make 'me' happy or sad...
They are also repetitive and loop back to a thought about me...
I tried not to believe those thoughts but each time I watch them, I found myself sucked into one of them.
Not sure how to proceed from here, but I know for the first time how addicted to thought content my mind is!

With Gratitude
Lahsen

[Anastacia42]

That's a lot. We have pointers for each step. Try it this way:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[willingToSee]

Sure, I will do and report back.
It looks way simpler than what I have been doing.
Thanks

[Anastacia42]

Yes. It is.

Loving

[willingToSee]

Hello,
Here are my observations for the day regarding the Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

1-Sitting on the sofa
Seeing the room, simply = image/color
Feeling the warmth coming from the heather, simply = sensation
Hearing the heather's fan, simply = sound
Thought about doing this right or wrong, simply = thought

2-Eating an apple
Seeing an apple, simply = image/color
Smelling the apple, simply = smell
Feeling the texture of the apple, simply = sensation
Tasting the apple, simply = taste
Hearing TV from downstairs, simply = sound
Thought about sleep, simply = thought

3-Sitting on the sofa another time
Seeing a table, simply = image/color
Feeling my back against the sofa, simply = sensation
Hearing music, simply = sound
Thought about the weekend, simply = thought

4-Brushing my teeth
Seeing a toothpaste and a toothbrush, simply = image/color
Smelling the toothpaste, simply = smell
Feeling the cold water on my hand, simply = sensation
Tasting the toothpaste, simply = taste
Hearing the running water, simply = sound
Thought about observing this process, simply = thought

5-Washing my hands
Seeing the sink, the soap , simply = image/color
smelling soap, simply = smell
Feeling hot water on my hands, simply = sensation
Hearing running water and cars from outside, simply = sound
Thought about an insight, simply = thought

6-Having dinner with a friend
Seeing a table and food and plates, simply = image/color
Smelling food, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth and texture of bread, simply = sensation
Tasting food, simply = taste
Hearing my friend talk, simply = sound
Thought about what my friend said, simply = thought

7-Wash dishes
Seeing dirty dishes, simply = image/color
Smelling food, simply = smell
Feeling hot water on my hands, simply = sensation
Hearing the sound of spoons and plates against the sink, simply = sound
Thought about direct experience, simply = thought

8-Filling a bottle of water in the kitchen
Seeing the empty bottle, simply = image/color
Smell of vegetables being cooked, simply = smell
Feeling the cold surface of the bottle, simply = sensation
Hearing music, simply = sound
Thought about tomorrow, simply = thought

9-Preparing breakfast
Seeing a coffee container, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the cold spoon, simply = sensation
Hearing the kettle's whistle, simply = sound
Thought about work, simply = thought

10-Having breakfast
Seeing a cup of coffee, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the news, simply = sound
Thought about an upcoming appointment, simply = thought

11-Taking a shower
Seeing the bathtub, simply = image/color
Smelling shampoo, simply = smell
Feeling the hot water on my skin, simply = sensation
Hearing the running water, simply = sound
Thought about calling a friend, simply = thought

12-Driving
Seeing road, other cars, simply = image/color
Feeling the heated seat, simply = sensation
Hearing other cars, simply = sound
Thought about shopping, simply = thought

13-Shopping
Seeing fruits, vegetables and people, simply = image/color
Smelling herbs, simply = smell
Feeling the texture and moisture of vegetables and fruits with my hands, simply = sensation
Hearing other people, babies, simply = sound
Thought about the store being busy, simply = thought

14-Watching a YouTube video
Seeing the computer screen, simply = image/color
Feeling the pressure of my back against the chair, simply = sensation
Hearing the voice of the person in the video, simply = sound
Thought about what the person is talking about, simply = thought

15-Vaccuming
Seeing the vacuum and the carpet, simply = image/color
Smelling a mixed of dust and heat coming from the vacuum, simply = smell
Feeling thirsty, simply = sensation
Hearing the vacuum noise, simply = sound
Thought about some errands to run, simply = thought

16-Putting the clothes in the dryer
Seeing the washing machine and the dryer, simply = image/color
Smelling soap, simply = smell
Feeling the moisture and texture of the wet clothes, simply = sensation
Hearing the sound of the dryer, simply = sound
Thought about lunch, simply = thought

17- Working out
Seeing the stationary bike, simply = image/color
Feeling the pressure of my feet on the pedals, simply = sensation
Hearing the squeaking of the wheel, simply = sound
Thought about the number of calories to burn, simply = thought

18-Relaxing with a cup of tea
Seeing a cup of tea and other objects in the room, simply = image/color
Smelling tea, simply = smell
Feeling my legs cold, simply = sensation
Tasting tea, simply = taste
Hearing voices from downstairs, simply = sound
Thought about calling a friend, simply = thought

19-Making a phone call,
Seeing the phone, simply = image/color
Feeling of holding the phone in my hand, simply = sensation
Hearing my friend's voice and some background noise, simply = sound

20-Wearing perfume
Seeing a perfume container, simply = image/color
Smelling the perfume, simply = smell
Feeling the cold surface of the perfume container, simply = sensation
Hearing the perfume sound as it is coming out from the container, simply = sound
Thought about buying a new one soon, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

That's more than enough & they are correct.

Here is the next step in learning to separate thoughts arising from thought content.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving

[willingToSee]

Thanks for the feedback.
I will do the Mind Labeling Experience assignment and report back, I might need to do it at least three times.

[willingToSee]

This is what happened during the Mind Labeling Experience:

First half
------------
I am sitting on the sofa
I am taking a deep breath
I am feeling the pressure against the sofa
I am feeling cold on my legs
I am taking another deep breath
I am feeling an itch on my noise
I am scratching the itch on my noise
I am hearing my heartbeat
I am feeling thirsty
I am hearing the sound of a car passing by
I am scanning the room with my eyes
I am hearing the thoughts naming each objects

Second half
----------------
Sitting on the sofa
Taking a deep breath
Scratching an itch on the face
Feeling another itch on the leg without needing to scratch it
Feeling cold on the legs
Scanning the room and hearing thoughts labeling each object
Hearing laughter coming from downstairs
Deep breathing
Eyes closing
Hearing the sound of a car passing by
Feeling relaxed
Yawning

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
I didn't notice any significant difference. Except that the labeling without 'I' felt more neutral

2. What is here without labels?
Experience is here without labels

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Labels appear a bit later after the experience.
Labels do not affect experience but they describe it

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
At the end of the second part the body felt relaxed and about to drift to sleep

[Anastacia42]

Hi

I just realized that by trying to give you a short cut I neglected to give you my initial post with a lot of instructions in it. Especially using the quote function.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Your answers to the pointer are good.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,