Request for guide

[Csouthwell6]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That a guide will help me see when I’m self identifying, or how I am identifying with self and will help me deconstruct it. I understand that the self is a thought construct and doesn’t exist, and that it’s the source of suffering.

What are you looking for at LU?
I’m looking for guidance with Anata and awakening. I would like someone to help me go through the whole process and help me see blind spots that I can’t easily find myself. I think ultimately my awakening process is underway and it will happen. It’s just a matter of when… well… I have also seen that I’m already there and it’s all just one thing… so I don’t know what I’m looking for. I just feel like I need some guidance to really see clearly.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Pointing out where I’m identifying, understanding my sticking points, maybe emotional support if it’s appropriate. I’m very open to any process, I’m sure there are a number of ways and it would be great to learn anything.
I guess I’d like practical pointing and anything that a guide would see as relevant for helping me awaken. I am open to learning and theory, I find it helpful but I’d like to work practically and get out of the intellect.
I’d also like some guidance on the fetters and working through those perhaps?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve worked with a couple people who have really helped me. I felt it ran its course though I made strides.
I had a combo of email and video support. I found the video support worked better for me but I think I’m in a different place now. I think I was very much in ego before when emailing so it was kind of just a stream of thoughts but not much depth. I didn’t know how to drop out of thoughts, whereas I’m better at it now.

I think I’ve seen through self, I’ve done a lot of work on fetter 4&5 and my reactivity is very low. I still get nervous system activations and I get worked up internally, but I don’t really react to that anymore which is challenging. I’m hopeful that the nervous system activation will decrease and stop but not sure if that’s how it works.
I also spent a number of years journalling through my stories which were causing my suffering and did a lot of trauma and shadow work, which I think is the reason my fetter 4&5 is pretty minimum.
I got to a point with my journalling where I began to ask myself ‘who is the journaler?’ Because I’d created an identity around journalling out my trauma and stories, and I realised that in itself was a story. Not long after that I had an awakening experience.
I think that was a kensho because now I have no doubt in the enlightenment path or whether it’s possible for me. I’ve also had many moments of great peace and presence. I am more connected to the world around me and feel more fascinated and open than I was prior to my awakening.
I’ve been on a few calls for The Awakening Curriculum and Pernille described me as empathic and open and she worked with me to get into my body and I was very receptive to it. I also found that I had great insights through having a conversation with her and Todd

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Csouthwell6]

I think I’ve had some big shifts this last week. I saw that thoughts don’t create sensations and that feelings are just labelled sensations. I have a lot of sensation in my gut which I’ve attributed a lot of issues to and now I have seen that they’re not connected.

I also think I’ve seen through the concept of reaction? I blocked my ex (which just gave me a pang) on Christmas Eve and because I was full of sensation and cortisol and my nervous system was activated, I attributed that to a ‘reaction’.
After I had thoughts like ‘that was impulsive/ mean/ shortsighted’ and I experienced doubt also…. But I’m not sure what the difference between reaction and response even is now.
My yardstick for judging reactions has just broken because I would have called it a reaction based on what I was thinking and feeling before and after the action. But now I think they were just a narration of what was happening and inaccurate.

Not sure if this is what I should be sharing but thought I’d give some context of my journey.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

If you have already seen through self we have a few checkpoint questions that we use. Do you want to try those or do you want to start from the beginning?. It might not take long.

Loving,

[Csouthwell6]

Hey Anastacia,

Happy to start wherever :-)

[Anastacia42]

Okay, this is my usual introduction. Please read that & we will go from there.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

And these are the checkpoint questions.

You can answer these or you can tell me you want guidance first.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[Csouthwell6]

How will life change?

I know things won’t change in the sense that life still lifes. Feeling is an essential part of being human, thoughts will never cease, difficulties will continue to happen and I will not just be impervious to difficulties. What I’m expecting to change is the level of suffering, the turmoil, and the personalisation of experience. I know life won’t change.. but I kind of think there will be something different.


How will you change?

I think my turmoil might reduce. I might feel more peace. I might be more spontaneous and less fettered. I think I’ll be more free and present, and content.


What will be different?

Just the meness. Everything will still unfold as it unfolds but how I relate to it and experience it will be more open and more curious. That’s my guess

What is missing?

Technically nothing… but, the seeing. everything I’ve seen so far seems like it’s an obvious thing that was always there… but it’s made my life somehow ‘better’. Even though, it’s not really.

[Anastacia42]

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I read these on my phone Quoting will also matter when we submit questions and answers to other guides at the end of the process.

Thank you

[Csouthwell6]

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I think it’s just when I experience things as personal. ‘Something happened to me’, ‘I did something wrong’ ‘I need to do something about this’, and when I believe it and stay with that a while. I’ll attribute things in reality as evidence for what I’m taking personal, ie - ‘this person hasn’t text me back because I said something wrong’ all that happened was nothing really. The existence of a text or no text is in my mind only. In reality, nothing happened.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It was life changing seeing this. When I saw that my thoughts are pretending to be me and hijacking my experience, I knew there was a way out of suffering. Whenever I’m suffering deeply, I will inquire. The layers seem to get more and more subtle and slippery to see through.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I blocked my ex on Christmas Eve and it felt like I was being reactive. Then I felt doubt, guilt, shame, and grief. I looked into it and saw that there was no such thing as reaction. That was just my own story and it kept me in guilt and doubt which wasn’t necessary.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Well in the same way that I thought reaction was true… decision is the same. I tend to think decision comes from somewhere deep in me, perhaps preconditioned, perhaps influenced by external factors, perhaps it’s from a higher power… but the experience of me being a decider is only a story which suggests an autonomy. It then enables me to feel doubt, and on the flip side, pride.

Ie - I made the decision to block my ex. I felt empowered and self righteous (also protective), and thereafter I felt guilt and doubt. These can only be present if there is a decider and there was a choice. When I saw through decision, guilt and doubt lifted… or is at least it was given the space to be felt and accepted as arising energy.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Oh wow. Hadn’t even thought of Intention… I guess that intention is an illusion that gives you a sense of righteousness or guilt perhaps? If I gossip for example, that’s ’bad Intention’ if I give to charity, it’s good intention. I sent my friend a text today of a meme that I said reminded me of her. It was a joke, my intention was to bond, but she didn’t respond and I wondered whether I offended her.
Intention gives me a stance of innocence or guilt I suppose. Haven’t really seen through it, but I can see logically how it’s just a mind constructed position.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

I think this is the same as decision, no? It’s up to me what I do? I entertained a relationship/ situationship with my ex for longer than I ‘should’ have in my own free will. No one forced me, I exercised my own freedom to indulge in an ‘unhealthy’ relationship. This enables me to judge my actions as good or bad. My position is blurred. I see how it all happens as it happens and enabled me to gain a huge amount of perspective and some big shifts… but I still feel a sense of shame for maybe compromising my standards?
I do see how this is just mind constructed but I’m being honest about where I feel some suffering.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice. These all feel like they’re kind of the same just wrapped in different nuances. Choice I suppose is an a/b - like there are options available to us and that we can move towards one or the other. I suppose it suggests there could have been an alternative. With the example of my ex, I can see that I could have let the relationship go in May… probably sooner if I’m being honest, but I stayed. I feel like if I’d have made a different choice I’d perhaps be in a better position now.
Same as above, I understand, or at least theoretically? It seems like they’re all just concepts and positions that are all equally mind constructed. I’m not sure if I have fully seen through it as I still experience some regret or wishing for a different outcome and I pin it to a choice I made in May (or at least partly).

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Interestingly, I felt a real loss of control and a desiring for control. I wanted to be the one who walked away from the relationship. I wanted him to see me in a certain light where I had the upper hand. I wanted to have it so that I had him as an option whether or not I wanted to be with him. It seemed to boil down to a sense of control for me, which seemed to be in contrast to rejection. I felt perhaps shame and inadequacy at perceived rejection.
Again. Same as above, it’s just a mental stance that suggests the present can be something different than it is.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Oh I don’t know. Physics? Spirit? Reality? Not a clue. Maybe nothing?
In some ways I can say nothing happens outside of my own perception?…
Nope. Got nothing. It’s a mystery to me.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

.

Kind of nothing? At the very bottom there’s a no such thing as ‘me’ so who has responsibility?

I think where I am at, I think I’m responsible for my own awakening and to see everything I need to see without judgement. I suppose some of the seeing I’ve experienced reduces the concept of responsibility even for my own awakening because it’s kind of nothing anyway? And it’s all sort of happening? So it’s a bit blurry where that stands.

6) Anything to add?

Don’t think so

Thanks again

[Csouthwell6]

How will life change?

I know things won’t change in the sense that life still lifes. Feeling is an essential part of being human, thoughts will never cease, difficulties will continue to happen and I will not just be impervious to difficulties. What I’m expecting to change is the level of suffering, the turmoil, and the personalisation of experience. I know life won’t change.. but I kind of think there will be something different.

How will you change?

I think my turmoil might reduce. I might feel more peace. I might be more spontaneous and less fettered. I think I’ll be more free and present, and content.

What will be different?

Just the meness. Everything will still unfold as it unfolds but how I relate to it and experience it will be more open and more curious. That’s my guess

What is missing?

Technically nothing… but, the seeing. everything I’ve seen so far seems like it’s an obvious thing that was always there… but it’s made my life somehow ‘better’. Even though, it’s not really.

[Csouthwell6]

Also, you can call me Caroline 🙂

It’s lovely to meet you and I’m excited about doing this work with you

[Anastacia42]

Hi Caroline,

I'm skating your answers with other guides who may have questions. You sound pretty clear to me.

Loving

[Csouthwell6]

Hey Anastacia,

Oh. Okay. Wasn't expecting that. I haven't really done the fetter work yet, only in fetter 4&5 although I've toyed with a bit of 6 and perhaps 7 if I understand it correctly, and I had moments of seeing that there's no subject/object, and also that time isn't real.. but I haven't gone too far into that because I still have craving and aversion and doubt so I felt like I needed to stay doing that work. That gave me the assumption that I wasn't clear.

Perhaps I've misunderstood what clear means.

Feeling a bit disappointed. I know it will pass. I think I was just hoping for more

[Anastacia42]

Hi Caroline

LU only covers the first 3 fetters. We don't go past that here.. Sorry if that was a misunderstanding but let me share with you some resources that do go past that.

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/


Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)
📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)

🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

You can find his YouTube Channel


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.

We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

Sorry for any misunderstanding about that.

Loving

[Csouthwell6]

Oh okay! Well that’s good to know! I wasn’t sure if I was past the first 3 or not so it’s good to get some confirmation.

Thank you for the resources, I’ll definitely check them out. Currently going through The Awakening Curriculum and have been interested in joining Vince’s groups

Caroline