Non-Dual Realization

[Anastacia42]

Where, exactly., is that?

Can you show it to another person?

Loving,

[Sanchez]

Where, exactly., is that?

I don't know, it feels like it is somewhere around head

Can you show it to another person?

No, I cannot

Best,

[Anastacia42]

Then how can you be sure it even exists?

If it is tense and tight that is only the life feeling. not a "self." Many people make the mistake of calling the lie feeling a "self." It's not.

The lie of a "self" Is only a sensation of contraction plus a made up story and label.

Look carefully. Can you see this?

Loving,

[Sanchez]

Then how can you be sure it even exists?

Agreed, I cannot be sure if it exists or not.

Can you see this?

Yes, Sensation of contraction, thought, label, are experiences not self.

Best,

[Anastacia42]

Good. Can you begin to see that "self" is nothing but the lie feeling & thought?




Cup Exercise

Here is an exercise which points out the difference between direct experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:

(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”

(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:

Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind.

See clearly the size, shape, color and volume of the cup.

Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?

Can you pour tea into it?

Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?

Is there an appearing mental image?

Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about are not "real;" they are just fantasies.

Can you see this?

Loving

[Sanchez]

Can you begin to see that "self" is nothing but the lie feeling & thought?

No, not yet, I have the conceptual clarity but not actual realization yet

Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Yes, White shiny plain porcelain cup with a handle, no pattern

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?

No

Can you pour tea into it?

Mentally Yes, Physically No

Can you drink from it?

Physically not

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?

Image of cup

Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

No

Can you see this?

Yes, I can see that

My Questions
I understand what you are implying, the existence of mental image of cup cannot be denied, I see the image of cup, but I cannot physically hold that cup. Same is image of self, I can see that if cannot hold it, it same fantasy as cup, nothing different.

But these mental images are occuring to someone, someone have awareness of these thoughts, who is aware, who is watching these thoughts come and go? Who is doing the imagination of these thought. When you asked to "Get a very clear picture in your mind", to who you asked to and who does the imagination?

Who is writing this and who is asking the no-self realization? If I am not thoughts, I am not contraction in chests, then who is experiencer and who am I?

Best,

[Anastacia42]

Who is writing this and who is asking the no-self realization? If I am not thoughts, I am not contraction in chests, then who is experiencer and who am I?

IThere is no "who" required for those things to happen.

This can feel a little tricky because yes there is some awareness, but that is not a self.

Let me share some group meetings where you can go and discuss this with other people, some who have seen and others who have not.

One model for looking at this is called Ten Fetters. At LU we only cover the first 3. There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters;:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger
https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):

Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)

📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com

⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)

🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.
We also have our Discord community which is free, too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

See if that helps.

Also, videos by Angelo Dillulo may be helpful.

https://youtu.be/fEv7UF8evQ4?si=0quQlOl6c4S5QvUU

Loving

[Sanchez]

Thanks for sharing resources. I read the 10 fetters and youtube video you shared. Make Sense to me.

So, this is the end of our conversation?

Best,

[Anastacia42]

No. Not at all. Not until you can tell me 100% that you can see there is no self. At that point, we have a few questions to check your progress and other guides will read them and may have questions, but we are nowhere near there, yet.

This is the only pointer Ilona gave me when I was guided here. i practiced this for about 3 months. I call it:

ButtChair

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.

Loving,

[Sanchez]

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.
Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

It is just sensation with no clear division.

Best,

[Anastacia42]

Exactly. Somehow continuing to focus on that helps the awakening to happen. Keep practicing and posting here even if it is the same every day.

Loving,

[Sanchez]

Yes, continuing the exercise, I feel that it is just sensation with no clear division.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

How does it FEEL to see no division?


Loving

[Sanchez]

How does it FEEL to see no division?

I feel that there is no separation between body and chair, cannot say where the body ends and chair starts.

Best,

[Anastacia42]

True, but that's a thought.

Feeling are things bodies can feel like heavy or hot or tight or relaxed.

So how does it feel?

Loving