A “Me” seeing that “Me” dont exist

[Anastacia42]

Good.

felt very expansive and open at the end.

That's the truth or "yes" feeling. Good!

Attention shifted to the I-thought or I and i could see how its just a thought like other thoughts. In that seeing, it felt like a knot of energy released.

Excellent! Yes!

No, the color is just experienced, the label could be completely different but the color is experienced still the same way.

Right, but *which* color is experienced?

Which one is actual experience? Which one is only a thought?

Labels have no effect on reality at all.

Correct! "Self" is a label, also.

You're welcome!

Loving,

[Koushik]

Right, but *which* color is experienced?

Red color is experienced.

Which one is actual experience? Which one is only a thought?

Red color is the actual experience and green is only a thought

[Anastacia42]

Great. Just wanted to be sure.

Now...

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[Koushik]

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Content of thoughts describe the label.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Just the color, shape and though about it.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

The label cant be found in actual experience

However, is an apple actually known?

No, the apple actually isn't known.

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

The arising of the thought is in direct experience but the content isn't, Content of thought is imaginary and cant be known in actual experience.

[Anastacia42]

Excellent.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Loving ,

[Koushik]

How does it FEEL to see this?

I'll be honest, i dont feel any different but its just like realizing something you always knew but never looked.

I have a question about direct experience.For the "Me', isnt the direct experience always seen, heard,smelt, felt, sensed, thought(past tense),tasted and its not seeing,hearing,sensing, thinking..etc. "Me" or "self" can never have the direct experience, because ME is only a thought that arises in the direct experience. There is no self in the direct experience, all there is in the direct experience is only the experience without any experiencer. "Me" or "self" knows about any experience only after it has happened.

[Anastacia42]

There is no "me" or "self."

There is only a thought, which is not Direct Experience. There may also be a contraction or heavy feeling, which indicates a lie.

Pay close attention to tight versus relaxed Sensation on you solar plexus.

Got it?

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving

[Koushik]

Got it?

Yeah, i dont feel the contraction just a thought.

How is the movement controlled?

When i look in the direct experience, it happens by itself or automatically.

Does a thought control it?

When i involve thoughts, thought seems to be saying that the body is doing it. Thought instructs the body to move/stop is the story thats running. In direct experience there is just movement and no thoughts, a thought cant control it

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

i dont know how the decision is made, it seems to be automatic

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Cant find anything or anybody who chose it

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No, cant find anything or anyone

But when i do this exercise with the thoughts, the thought seems to be instructing the body and body is doing it. How can i look more into it?

[Anastacia42]

How can i look more into it?

Why would you? We want to ignore thoughts & focus on Direct Experience here.

But take your time and look at any activity.

Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.

2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

How is the decision made?

Loving,

[Koushik]

Why would you?

I was curious and wanted to see how the illusion is playing out with thoughts. I thought it would just give me more clarity.

[Koushik]

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Cant find what is choosing, again seems to be happening automatically.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

Body is doing it, but thats a thought, a story. No separate individual can be found.

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Cant find anything thats controlling the hand

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No, cant find anything.

There is a thought about doubting if i am doing the direct looking correctly.

How is the decision made?

Spontaneously and automatically.

I tried noticing some other activities like getting up from sofa to go sleep on the bed. Thought always seems to have story like, "Its 1:30 AM, i should go better sleep" so i "chose" to get up and "decided"to sleep. Its pretty clear that there is no actor/controller but not the chooser.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

Find how it FEELS to notice this. FEELING is important.

We are looking for a shift in perception. Read Gateless Gatecrashers downloaded from Resources Books here on this site for examples

Loving,

[Koushik]

Find how it FEELS to notice this. FEELING is important

Everytime i cant find anyone doing controlling/decision in the direct experience, i was surprised that i cant find someone controlling and then the mind completely goes quiet followed by a feeling of expansion.

I have actually finished reading Gatesless gatecrashers just before you started guiding me.

[Anastacia42]

Expansion - yes! That's the truth feeling. Pay attention to that & what is happening when you feel it.

Can you find any separate "self? "

Loving,

[Koushik]

Can you find any separate "self? "

I cant find a separate self in direct experience. All i can find is what is being experienced and nothing thats experiencing it.

I have paid very close attention to the feeling and everytime i look and cant find a separate self, i feel very relaxed, expansive and blissful sensations in head and chest area. I used to experience these blissful sensations when i did shadow work and practiced acceptance maybe thats why i dont feel very different.