Sage

[Sage]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That what I think I am (a separate and independent entity/soul) doesn't actually exist. It's just a belief.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance to help me investigate and verify my beliefs and finally discover the truth about who I am/am not.
I hope to find a patient and sharp guide who can uncover my deceptions.
I tend to be very mental

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect/hope to finally be able to reach the truth about who I am.
I expect and hope for an intense and ruthless conversation capable of breaking down my fears and obstacles..
as I said above I tend to analyze everything to the detriment of emotions and spontaneity

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Not much. A few non-dual videos/books. I've tried meditation several times, but I don't think it's for me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

[Elad]

Hello! I am a guide here at LU. I'd be happy to work with you. Are you ready to start? What may I call you?

[Sage]

Hi Elad!
Thanks for replying :)
you can call me Sage and I'm ready

[Elad]

Hi Sage, cool, lets go :)

I'll be asking you questions and giving you exercises. The questions and prompts I particularly invite you to contemplate and answer will be in blue. Please always answer those.

Here is a link to a short video on how to use the "quote function" on this forum. Using it will make it easier for us to converse here. Please watch and then apply, quoting the passages you respond to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=14s

Apart from this I invite you to leave aside other videos and reading materials about non-duality and such, while we do this work together. It will keep the process focused.

Here is this first exploration for you:

During the next day, pay attention to the sense of self - whatever feels like, is experienced as if, it is "you", "the self", "Sage". Your task here is to try and look as many times as possible during the day, during all kinds of normal situations, what it is that seems to be "the self".


Write me your findings/observations.

[Elad]

Ps. The email notification (that a response has been posted) has been unstable lately. Tech is on it. Still: If you don't get a notification that I answered within a day, get in the forum and check for yourself. I almost always answer within a day.

[Sage]

Yes, I noticed, I usually come here to the forum to check.
Okay, I'll observe this sense of "me" and report back to you tomorrow!
Thank you

[Sage]

During the next day, pay attention to the sense of self - whatever feels like, is experienced as if, it is "you", "the self", "Sage". Your task here is to try and look as many times as possible during the day, during all kinds of normal situations, what it is that seems to be "the self".

The body, thoughts, emotions and in general "the look" (understood as everything I perceive) on the world.
“I” is what perceptions arrive at.
“Me” also appears to be behind the eyes

[Sage]

even the phenomenon of attention seems like a part of me

[Elad]

Hey Sage, thank you.

1) Would you say everything is experienced as "you"? Also other people?

2) Can you look more into the sense of "me" behind the eyes, where is it, what exactly is there?

3) Explore attention. Can you actually control where attention goes, or it just does its thing?

[Sage]

Hi Elad

Would you say everything is experienced as "you"? Also other people?

No, sorry, I expressed myself badly. I am the "gaze" that receives perceptions.
What perceptions arrive at

Can you look more into the sense of "me" behind the eyes, where is it, what exactly is there?

Physical sensations

Explore attention. Can you actually control where attention goes, or it just does its thing?

Most of the time it seems to go by itself or triggered by thoughts. But if I want to focus on something I seem to be able to direct it wherever I want

[Sage]

where is this sense of self behind the eyes..

I say I am behind the eyes because the visual perceptions that reach me are from the perspective of the position of the eyes..
beyond this, however, "where it is" I really couldn't say

Thank for your time

[Elad]

Would you say everything is experienced as "you"? Also other people?

No, sorry, I expressed myself badly. I am the "gaze" that receives perceptions.
What perceptions arrive at

Please look more at the "point" or "place" where the full visual experience is "received". This full visual experience includes the colors and shapes we would conventionally call "what is visible of my body and face". Now really look - can you actually find anyone or any place that recieves this total experience? Or it just IS?

Can you look more into the sense of "me" behind the eyes, where is it, what exactly is there?

Physical sensations

Right. And are sensations "you"? Or are they just what they are, sensations?


Really look if "the sensations being you" is any more then a habitual belief. Don't try to change it or make it go away, just register i as clear as possible, what is actually there.

Explore attention. Can you actually control where attention goes, or it just does its thing?

Most of the time it seems to go by itself or triggered by thoughts. But if I want to focus on something I seem to be able to direct it wherever I want

Please look closer at this. Sit with attention. Notice when and how it moves. Every time it happens look, if there is actually a "you" that makes it happen, or if it just happens.

Sit still for 15 min minimum, or longer if it feels sustainable to you, and look at this. Let me know what is seen.


Now NB NB NB. The point is not to intellectually agree or disagree with what I say. It is not even about "feeling" it to be true or not (which is just a way of saying a belief is deeply held or not). This is all about looking for what is actually there in direct experience, actual experience, "here and now". Always.

[Elad]

where is this sense of self behind the eyes..

I say I am behind the eyes because the visual perceptions that reach me are from the perspective of the position of the eyes..
beyond this, however, "where it is" I really couldn't say

Thank for your time

Right so this "sense of self" is based on inference, not direct experience. In conventional life we have a sense of self that helps function normally in relationships, planning and so forth. This is the "inferred conventional sense of self". We are not looking to make it go away. It will not. We are just looking to make it absolute clear, that there is no real self in control of anything inside the conventional sense of self. That conventional sense of self is just a pragmatic idea within the whole, functioning on its own like other ideas and like the wind. These words will become clearer later, if not clear now.

[Sage]

Hi Elad,
I'm away for a few days and won't be able to fully dedicate myself to the investigation.
I will be back on Thursday , I hope it's not a big problem..
In the meantime I will continue to look as much as possible

Sage

[Elad]

Thanks for the heads-up no problem.