good place

[graceabounds]

I think something that is being lost in replying spontaneously and in pieces is the connection of the question to the answers. Other questions are arising internally and there is a movement answer those instead.

Here is a very short tutorial about utilizing the quote function on the forum:

https://youtu.be/QCbZYSvnTpc?si=4gb3PnpTakjwLaAp

Going forward please make sure to quote and reply to each question asked. You can still do this in pieces but I will know not to reply until the questions are all answered.

Go back through my last two posts and using the quote function please LOOK into and answer any inquiries that have been overlooked.

[daisyrain]

I will, please excuse my sluggishness

[daisyrain]

What makes this feeling “me”?

Being believed, and somehow "accepted". The feeling is not responsible itself.

Is there any evidence, outside of thought and sensation, that this is a “self”?

Of anything the answer comes as a prominent "no answer" that is unshaken by this me-feeling.
The feeling of me seems to have qualities of being a thought itself.

Does the warmth say it belongs to “you,” or is that a habit, a thought-label arriving after the fact?

No, the warmth says nothing. It's sort of everywhere and nowhere. As if I can't even see it and just have a label "warmth" that is taken to be the actual thing.
Confronting that laben itself it seems there is just a thought overlay over an ocean that can't be found.

[daisyrain]

There is fear of answering this. A story of fear of failure and having tried already just to fail arises. Still, this moment just is. Before the story there's intensity arising and passing/ working through

(About exercise: holding fingers to the head) Can you find a self in the sensation, or only the pressure itself?

The pressure is sort of nowhere. There is staying in nowhere.
It's like the pressure can't be caught, no me detected here.

Is there anyone afraid, or just the arising of fear?

The fear is happening on its own

How is fear recognized in the body? What is labeled

Subtle muscle tensing. And label calling to fear

WHO is alone?

A chase going on.
Inconclusive.
It's a little hard to find the sensationnof aloneness again

Nothing to know here… that is all story.
What is here before any of that?

Freedom. Colours. Pressure. Letting go (without the letting)

[daisyrain]

How is fear recognized in the body? What is labeled

It's really not fear, it's intensity and an expectation.

[graceabounds]

Yes. Exactly.
You’re seeing it directly: every “me-feeling,” every “fear,” every “aloneness” is just a story and a label riding on top of raw sensation, never anything more

There is fear of answering this. A story of fear of failure and having tried already just to fail arises.

How does the ‘story’, the thought, become something called fear? or maybe called intensity or an expectation? Slow it down, what happens?

If subtle muscle tensing occurs, where is that happening?

The feeling of me seems to have qualities of being a thought itself.

What remains of the feeling of me that is not a thought?


And are you ready to look into the story of the one who is failing? Who isn’t getting something right? WHO is at the center of these stories? Look for the owner…

[daisyrain]

How does the ‘story’, the thought, become something called fear? or maybe called intensity or an expectation? Slow it down, what happens?

a feeling of weight in the chest and the face. Sensation of my skin of my arms. Some tensing here as well. "oh no, I'm stressed" comes up.
There seems to be a story in place, half overlooked right now.
Peering into thoughts yields.
"I should be..." "I can't do it" "nothing I can do" "what if I fail"

What remains of the feeling of me that is not a thought?

I'm only really finding a thought. Pleasant feelings occur, but me-ing is only found in thought right now.
"I'm probably not really getting it" "I need to be looking better"

And are you ready to look into the story of the one who is failing?

Yes

Who isn’t getting something right? WHO is at the center of these stories? Look for the owner…

"I can't do it right now" hm
a lot of thoughts like this.
"I'm searching for something that exists, that mght be my problem."
That felt like a clue, still a me.

[daisyrain]

it seems like there are a thousand thoughts all going "ich" (I, german).
A flow.
Now, a flow makes no sense in regard to thought, right? So that's really fascinating, investigating.

tingling in my feet ("oh no")

[daisyrain]

Everything is getting tagged "I", it's not pleasant

[graceabounds]

The following link is a 7 minute clip of a soccer game. If you prefer another sport…please feel free to find one to do this exercise with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.
2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.
Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice. It seems to feel as though they can influence, somehow, what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.
3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences
in what is appearing as experience.
4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.

What did you find when doing this exercise?
Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?
And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

[daisyrain]

What did you find when doing this exercise?

First of, the commentary really drew me in, making me feel much more engaged. Without commentary things seemed to be much more easy, just happening, no stress.
Repeating the exercise a mismatch between sound and sight became apparent, like they don't actually have anything to do with each other.

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

No

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

Well, thought is happening. It says a lot.
The same mismatch seems to occur.
Like it's a stretch to assume, that the thoughts actually have relation to reality.

[graceabounds]

Like it's a stretch to assume, that the thoughts actually have relation to reality.

"I should be..." "I can't do it" "nothing I can do" "what if I fail

What if no relation to reality?

[daisyrain]

What if no relation to reality?

If anything comes, it's that the image I have of myself (what?) doesn't match who I am (??)

This makes no sense

[daisyrain]

The relationship to thought can shape what happens, right?
It's all a bit difficult. Oh, that's a thought.

[daisyrain]

There's a bit of a divide. It's not like I stay in one state or interpretation of the situation all the time.

At times it's really like I'm just observing.
Also there is so much selfing, completely unbithered apparently.

Also there is a mismatch in that it seems like I completely unlearned how to Rest in direct experience Vs. It's really just easier than I thought.

It seems to me a key here would be to listen to my thought more, because if I don't really listen to them consciouly, I don't even register them really.