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[Joylouise]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
As a practitioner of western Buddhism for over 20 years, I am familiar with the term anhata or no self, which means there is no fixed separate self.

What are you looking for at LU?
Meditation and guidance toward liberation from suffering as well as a community of compassionate practitioners. Feedback and discussion of afflictive states in my life. Some lighthearted enjoyment of like thinkers,

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Feedback, support and information. I would like more information and experience of the concepts of no self in an embodied as well as intellectual sense. I would like to participate in a community.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been involved with Buddhist meditation and reading for a long time. I am a member of a Unitarian congregation and I had a very religious upbringing as a Mennonite but I am not a Christian. My life is about spiritual exploration.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Feedback and discussion of afflictive states in my life.

This forum is not really go it discussion. We offer pointers & you LOOK and respond. Discussion is usually a lot of thinking and keeps us from reaching your goal of seeing that there is no self.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Joylouise]

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Life will become more tranquil. I will be more accepting of what is happening, with a deeper understanding of no self.

What is missing is some kind of acceptance or understanding

thank you,

Joy

[Joylouise]

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Joy. I am in PST

[Anastacia42]

Hi Joy

Please quote one question at a time with your answer underneath, , not all at once.

Your expectations are fairly reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Joylouise]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

what comes up is why is it so challenging to change the story?

[Anastacia42]

what comes up is why is it so challenging to change the story?

Well, first, we have no control over our thoughts at all. They just show up and then we tell a story that we did something. But if we look using direct experience which I'm about to share with you we can see what is true and what is not.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Joylouise]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Hi Stacy, thank you for your clarification about knowing and seeing. It reminds me of a Buddhist idea of the difference between a 'thought world' and the real world. I have found it freeing to remind myself that I am in some very dire thought worlds, and what a good discipline it would be to focus on the concrete reality of here and now. any tips on how to achieve this freedom?

[Anastacia42]

Yes. We going to go through a series of pointers. Here is the first one:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Joylouise]

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

hearing: early morning, small sounds like the refrigerator humming, the HVAC air, cars outside, wind in the trees

feeling: warm cup of coffee, clothes against my skin, the couch seat

tasting: coffee

smelling: I have no sense of smell.

thoughts arising: painful thoughts.

seeing: darkness, outlines of trees outside the window.

[Anastacia42]

Hi

Please go back & follow the instructions exactly. Your answer should look like this & have more than one situation.

Drinking coffee
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought


Try again, please.

Loving