I Need Guidance

[Noobstorm]

Apply this to your thoughts, behavior, feelings, everything.

I can't.

Where then is the I that runs the show ?

No where.

[vinceschubert]

"In the sutras, this image is given: "Three cut reeds can stand only by leaning on one another. If you take one away, the other two will fall." For a table to exist, we need wood, a carpenter, time, skillfulness, and many other causes. And each of these causes needs other causes to be. The wood needs the forest, the sunshine, the rain, and so on. The carpenter needs his parents, breakfast, fresh air, and so on. And each of those things, in turn, has to be brought about by other causes and conditions. If we continue to look in this way, we'll see that nothing has been left out. Everything in the cosmos has come together to bring us this table. Looking deeply at the sunshine, the leaves of the tree, and the clouds, we can see the table. The one can be seen in the all, and the all can be seen in the one. One cause is never enough to bring about an effect. A cause must, at the same time, be an effect, and every effect must also be the cause of something else. Cause and effect inter-are. The idea of first and only cause, something that does not itself need a cause, cannot be applied."
Does this ring true for you ?

[Noobstorm]

Does this ring true for you ?

I guess so.

[vinceschubert]

Then how can you give the idea of anything being separate any credibility ?

Now remember, (the word re member invokes a re joining, an end to separation) that this needs to be experiential.
Your short responses stimulate a story here, that you are giving this little energy.
i spend 15 minutes considering how to face you towards the gate and you respond "no."
LOOK for the lack of separateness in your daily life. Just as the example of the tables creation involved everything and everybody, when you pick up a fork, or drive your car, or turn on the tap (faucet), or attend to this forum thread. Just writing this causes a sensation of expansion here, and love flows in appreciation of the incredible complexity of the whole...

vince

[Noobstorm]

Then how can you give the idea of anything being separate any credibility ?

My answer wasn't from experiential evidence.

Your short responses stimulate a story here, that you are giving this little energy.
i spend 15 minutes considering how to face you towards the gate and you respond "no."

I assure you I am not giving minimal energy to this, although my responses may be short.
I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for free.

The one can be seen in the all, and the all can be seen in the one

I can't see this "one" that you speak of.

What makes me and a tree on the opposite side of the world not separate?

[vinceschubert]

I assure you I am not giving minimal energy to this

good stuff.

I can't see this "one" that you speak of.

Did you follow the quoted example of the table ?
Read it again & do the exercises i mentioned about seeing how Everything is connected.

What makes me and a tree on the opposite side of the world not separate?

You imagine the tree on the other side of the world. It is YOUR concept. It is happening inside your head. There is no part of it that is not you.
To believe that it has an objective, separate existence is just another belief, thought. It does not exist in reality for you. Only when it is part of your experiencing, does it become reality. Even then, if you engage in your ideas ABOUT it...

[Noobstorm]

You imagine the tree on the other side of the world. It is YOUR concept. It is happening inside your head. There is no part of it that is not you.
To believe that it has an objective, separate existence is just another belief, thought. It does not exist in reality for you. Only when it is part of your experiencing, does it become reality. Even then, if you engage in your ideas ABOUT it...

I can understand that things not experienced exist in the mind, but there -are- actual things not being experienced. I don't understand this.

[vinceschubert]

but there -are- actual things not being experienced. I don't understand this.

Yes, this is a tricky one.
There may or may not be actual things outside of your experiencing.
i know to say that the street outside of your residence may not exist, sounds like it defies reality. To take a science fiction view and say that it comes into existence as you begin to perceive it certainly sounds fanciful, but can you say that it doesn't happen that way. Not opinion, but experience, shows what. It is an assumption that it is there and it is a practical attitude to have for normal daily living, but investigate it from an experiential point of view.
You can confirm that what you do have about it (the street) are stories. Assumptions are stories and although they may turn out to be true, they are NOT part of your current experiencing of Reality. Your reaction to the stories is reality, and this is where our interests are.
To acknowledge that everything outside of your direct experiencing is a hypothesis, is to begin to differentiate between reality before the distortion that stories result in, and the reality that ensues from believing the content of stories.
The tree on the other side of the world is a story that may or may not be true. It may be this way or that. The fact that it is a story doesn't reduce my enjoyment of it (or whatever), but when i suffer because of my reaction to a particular story, i recognise that it is unnecessary suffering.

[Noobstorm]

Read it again & do the exercises i mentioned about seeing how Everything is connected.

This doesn't quite resonate with me.


How does a person "see" this without prior knowledge about it?

[vinceschubert]

It seems that you don't see the difference between a mental concept (story, that which exists only if there is belief in it.) and reality (that which persists when belief in it stops.)

How does a person "see" this without prior knowledge about it?

By suspending everything that you think you know and re-examining each and every belief from the perspective of experiencing.

[Noobstorm]

It seems that you don't see the difference between a mental concept (story, that which exists only if there is belief in it.) and reality (that which persists when belief in it stops.)

I do understand this, but to me this non-separation stuff your telling me is a story.

[vinceschubert]

but to me this non-separation stuff your telling me is a story.

Of course it is, an it will remain so until it is experienced.
The exercises i gave you were a possible way for your experiencing to include that.
Does it resonate with you that everything outside of your direct experience is a story - in this NOW ?

[Noobstorm]

Does it resonate with you that everything outside of your direct experience is a story - in this NOW ?

Yes. The tree on the opposite side of the world and my self exist as stories(thoughts).

[vinceschubert]

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

[Noobstorm]

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

I assure you I have not entirely seen the absence of the self. Maybe because I am hanging on to the idea there are separate thinkers and observers, and it most definitely seems that way. I also have a lot of doubts about this process, maybe I am only seeing this intellectually.

It happens when children are taught to associate "I" with real things. Eventually everything begins to revolve around it, and it is constantly reinforced throughout someones entire lifespan solidifying the belief in it.