The end of the line

[colemination]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand that the separate self is the source of all anxieties. I have this inherent unconscious reaction to believing that life is happening to a "me" when in fact life is just happening. It's so deeply engrained (seemingly) that it's become automatic. I'm really at the end of my rope with it's tyranny. The identification must be broken.

What are you looking for at LU? A continued seeing and dedication to breaking free of the mind and it's deeply held "I" belief. I'm looking for others who've seen what I've seen and know the reality of this unreality. I'd like support that taking the step through the gateless gate.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I expect clear seeing, honesty and no sugar coating. For someone to show up with me and guide me while meeting me where I'm at. Firm but gentle. I want to be pushed over the edge and to have someone remind me that the fear I'm facing at the edge of the abyss is just the governor of the mind.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I've been through several meditation retreats. Sat with some prominent teachers. Adyashanti, Jeff Foster and the likes. This nagging idea and longing for truth just won't leave me alone. It's the only thing that I can't turn off. I sometimes feel like if I don't truly grok this one thing, (the end of the false self) that I'll have wasted my life.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Bananafish]

Hi colemination. My name is Kento, and I'm here to help you, as a guide in this forum, to
go through the LU process.

You wrote in your intro that the "identification" must be broken.
Could you start by telling what identifies with what?

Regards,

Kento

[colemination]

Hey Kento,

Thank you for the reply! Nice to meet you. By identification I mean the identification of the “I” (true self/no self) with the “me”. Or the idea of a me.

[Bananafish]

Hi colemination (is there any other way I could call you, btw?). :)

the identification of the “I” (true self/no self) with the “me”. Or the idea of a me.

How do you perceive what you call "true self?"
Is it an intellectual understanding that there is one?

Is it any different from one of the many ideas of you?

Warm regards,

Kento

[colemination]

Hi Kento,

Yes feel free to call me or we can set up a time for a call. I’m on Pacific Standard Time. My phone number is +13604309466

As for who True Self is, it does feel ephemeral but also sometimes comes with an image or as each image comes up there is still just a seeing.

Sometimes there tends to be personalization of the image though which can hypnotize me back into thinking there’s a “self” or a “me”.

I’ve had experiences where I see my body/mind/emotions in the third person of sorts and there’s a release of personalization but I tend to get sucked back into personalization most of the time.

[Bananafish]

Hi colemination. Sorry, I meant if I could call you by your own name, as calling you
"colemination" sounds a bit awkward to me.

Anyway ...

it does feel ephemeral but also sometimes comes with an image

Does "True Self" equal with an image? Observe that "image" as it appears, and
see whether it is any different from other kind of images, e.g., the image of your friend.

I’ve had experiences where I see my body/mind/emotions in the third person of sorts and there’s a release of personalization

I'm afraid this kind of experience is not what we are dealing with here.

Let's start from scratch, where you didn't associate a certain experience with
your idea about what's called "True Self" or "No Self"

Instead, please focus on one physical sensation that relates the most with the sense
that there is an entity "you" over here and the world over there.

In the next post, please tell what kind of sense it is, and where it is felt strongly.

Regards,

Kento

[colemination]

Hey Kento,

My name is Cole. Totally misunderstood you on that previous message haha.

The physical sensation most closely associated with this sensation of me as separate is a light tingling that primarily swirls throughout the entire body but is centralized in the chest/belly area.

It also feels like a contraction of sorts like a boundary at the skin and the sensation is being held in by pressure.

[Bananafish]

Thanks, Cole. :)

Ok, close your eyes and examine closer. What makes those sensations
so special that they are associated with something called the separate "self"?

It's not about pondering on the above, but rather about focusing on
the sensate experience itself, without naming them, in which case the
sensation is not even named as sensation.

Please try this and report what came up.

Kento

[colemination]

Hey there,

After investigating I see that the sensations are just arising. They feel as they feel when the ownership idea is dropped.

From this perspective they aren’t special at all but rather just more immediate. More prominent as a feeling than the rest of experience but there’s a noticing that they’re not separate from the rest of experience.

It’s constantly in flux and is happening without “my” interference. In fact, as soon as “I” come in and try to see them as mine, there’s an immediate contraction to the sensations arising.

[Bananafish]

Hi Cole.

as soon as “I” come in and try to see them as mine, there’s an immediate contraction to the sensations arising.

What is that "I" that comes in? Again, drop the concepts and dive into the sensate experience, even if that's a
thought; investigate not the content of the thought, but rather its quality as a kind of non-bodily sensation.

[colemination]

That "I" feels like the sense of control or ownership. It's ephemeral in nature. Almost like it's shifting shapes constantly as an image of sorts but it has a tendency to "need" if you will.

It's like a gravitational force that wants to stick to experience and sway it in a direction other than what it's naturally being. And yet, even that sense feels like it's naturally arising. There's a "seeing" of it's desire to control and manipulate experience.

[Bananafish]

OK, is that "sense" of control something similar to
bodily sensations such as pain or itch? Or is it more like a thought
that has the content related to control?

Drop the label "control" or "ownership" and look at the sense again,
after which you may describe what that "sense" is down at the sensate level.
Do it again and again till you feel you're clear enough to describe it.

Please try.

Kento

[colemination]

Hey Kento,

So the sense of control is more like a thought that has the energy of control or judgement attached to it. It's less of a sensation and more like a thought mixed with a mist. Or like a shadow that keeps changing. Sometimes it's overt and other times it's much more subtle. Like pretending to give the body commands when it notices tightness or says it's not "doing something correctly".

I also notice that when I really look, there's no one "doing" the sense of control. It's just arising and then it's noticed or it's not and then it becomes identified with until it's noticed again. It's quite slippery.

If I were to describe it as a "sense" of sorts it would be more like a warning signal a sense that something is "wrong". It's not purely a sensation though. If the thought of what it is is dropped it's more like an energy of urge.

[Bananafish]

Hi Cole.

If the thought of what it is is dropped it's more like an energy of urge.

Ok, just describe the quality of that "energy" as you keep observing it.
Put your focus on it, and try to give as much time as you can to the observation.

Better if you could reserve time dedicated exclusively to the observation.
If you manage to do so, sit alone in a quiet room, in a relaxed manner, with the least movement
and least external distraction (people, sound, etc.). Sitting with your back straight
will prevent you from dozing off.

Along with it, as this way of inquiry is highly portable, try to take it with you to
anywhere you go, and when you got even a few seconds for it, just do it.
You'll be able to more easily build momentum by doing so, but at the same time,
don't force yourself or try too hard for now.

Regards,

Kento