Touching Me

[Enollasong]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the "I" I think of as me, is a vehicle existing only for navigating the physical world and that in truth my essence is a oneness that my mind cannot fathom, but my heart longs for. A oneness which a part of me remembers, but can't seem to connect with for more than moments at a time, or when asleep.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm seeking conversation with someone who may allow me to pose questions and whose answers might help point the way towards my own recognition of my true nature as pure love. I have only touched this space now and then very briefly, but quickly ego startled me back into the body and forefront of thinking.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't know what to expect :-) I only have a Hope. I hope I can have the support of one who is already in a place of truly realizing who they are, and can thus guide me towards that place of Being. I have not been able to grasp what I long for on my own. I have delved into areas during meditation that have really frightened me. I don't know what they mean. I wish to be in presence with someone who speaks the language of Knowing- which I have barely touched, but a Knowing I have not been able to sustain throughout my daily life. I think sometimes my mind "sees" I am seeking something and creates experiences that simulate knowing- but I could be wrong.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Long time meditation(20+ yrs in spurts until 2 yrs ago, now daily), investigated the teachings of Wayne Dyer, Ram Das, Deepak Chopra, Neal Donald Walsh, Ernest Holmes, Pema Chodron, Paul Selig, many others. Lately Rupert Spira, Dan Schmidt, Lisa Natoli. Attended some online retreats & workshops with last three.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[vinceschubert]

Hi Enollasong, vince here, i will guide you. Let's get to it.

I only have a Hope. I hope I can have the support of one who is already in a place of truly realizing who they are, and can thus guide me towards that place of Being. I have not been able to grasp what I long for on my own. I have delved into areas during meditation that have really frightened me. I don't know what they mean. I wish to be in presence with someone who speaks the language of Knowing- which I have barely touched, but a Knowing I have not been able to sustain throughout my daily life. I think sometimes my mind "sees" I am seeking something and creates experiences that simulate knowing- but I could be wrong.

Good. You’ve arrived exactly where you need to be: not knowing, disoriented, raw. The longing, the fear, the confusion—they’re not in the way. They *are* the way. But I won’t hold your hand. That’s the old pattern—looking for someone to give you what you already are. Let’s destroy that together.

Right now, in this instant, drop everything you think you want. Forget what “support” is supposed to look like. Forget what “knowing” feels like. Drop the hope. Drop the seeker. And look. Look in experiencing.

**What is *actually* happening right now?**

Not the story about it. Not “I feel sad,” “I’m not awake,” or “I don’t know what this is.” No labels. Just this. Just the raw, unfiltered *actuality*.

So:
- Is there a *you* here who is “hoping”?
- Can you *find* a self who needs guidance?
- Or is that just another story arising—another thought, another sensation?

**Pause. Stop everything.**

What is present, right now, without a single concept? (all thoughts are concepts)

Look.

Just describe. Don't analyze.

Just report the raw data—**what is being experienced**—without a single interpretation.


vince

[Enollasong]

Thank you Vince.
Right now;
Words on a phone screen. Finger typing. Hand moving fingers. Eyes seeing words, colors. Body breathing. Body at rest. Sensation of a shivering in the legs. Energy moving. Eyes looking out to a wall, this screen. Breathing in the body. No sense of a story but must be a story to write thoughts. No hoping. Energy moving in the body increasing. A feeling of waiting and watching. A thought- I know absolutely nothing. There is nothing. Heart beat increasing. Feeling of an energy in my body that is an intelligence that isn't created by my mind. Who creates it? I don't know. Energy feels alive in the body. Aware of the room. Finger moving. Eyes watching finger, screen. Feeling a resting. Watching. Who's watching. Thoughts of wanting. Wanting to see. Let go. Just breathe. Allow nothing. Nothing to allow. Above a chaotic world, I created it. I'm in it. I'm not of it. That's a story. That's a thought- and another thought about thought. Body breathes. Like it forgot to. Eyes just seeing. World moves without me. Still a thought. Typing takes thinking, I think. I'm directed to type. How can I type without thinking, without thoughts? Sense of knowing something I can't remember. Resting in not knowing. Back to that. But it's a thought too, right?
Tears in eyes.

[vinceschubert]

good morning Enolla, That was beautiful. Tears here too as i read it and the story of where 'you are' happened.
Just some clean up responses here...

but must be a story to write thoughts.

Yes. Exactly. To write a thought, story must arise. But here’s the trap:

Just because a story appears, doesn’t mean there’s a storyteller.

A thunderclap doesn’t prove the existence of a thunder god.

So — thought is here. Desire is here. Writing is here.

But where is the one doing it?

Don't answer with a story. Don't answer with another thought. That’s just more fog.

Stop.

Right now — in the space between thoughts — what’s here?

Strip it down:

- Thought: seen.
- Writing: seen.
- Wanting: seen.

But is there a seer?
Or just seeing — raw, empty, ownerless?

Look again. Don’t think about this.

Can a thinker be found — or only thoughts appearing?
Can a writer be found — or only writing happening?

Sit in that gap and report what’s actually found. Not what thought says is found. What’s directly, unmistakably, here.

Thoughts of wanting. Wanting to see

Good. Again, it rises: “Wanting to see.”

Now: Don’t analyze it. Don’t follow it. Don’t push it away.
Just let it sit there, naked. No label. No meaning. Just raw.

Feel the sensation of wanting.

Where is it? In the chest? In the throat? In the belly?

Go directly into it. Let it speak through heat, pressure, contraction — whatever is real, now.

Now: without a single thought, without a story…

Can you find a “you” that wants?

Look very closely.

When the thought “I want to see” appears…
What’s actually happening?
A sentence floats into awareness. Energy moves in the body. That’s it.

Where’s the self in that?
Where’s the seer?
Where’s the wanter?

Can you find them, in raw experience?
Or is it just: wanting happens. Thought happens. Story arises.

But no one owns it.

Sit right there. Let the wanting burn through.

Don’t try to get rid of it.
Let it show itself fully — until you see: it’s empty.

Now tell me: Is there a “you” that wants? Or only the thought “I want”?

i'm nit picking here - but can't miss an opportunity to ram this home..

Allow nothing.

how is it possible to put effort into doing nothing? Isn't doing nothing an oxymoron?
..or was it just a thought that arose? (not efforting)

Typing takes thinking, I think. I'm directed to type. How can I type without thinking, without thoughts?

This is a critical point and a much more subtle one. Thoughts happen. Believing those thoughts happen or not. If they are then responding to them happens. ..and we're away lost in a spiralling story. ..or they are just seen as thoughts appearing and then attention goes back to what is happening.
Here's the subtle point.. Is there a connection between the thoughts appearing and the typing that is happening?

How can I type without thinking, without thoughts?

There is another subtle but impotent point here. This question is our opportunity to recognise that a) a question incites mental activity. and b) The answer to a question can be "not known".
This is a brilliant seque. Can you know anything? What is knowing? Does knowing only relate to information? Is all information a story ABOUT something? (accurate or otherwise)
Now, to follow this further, what is the actual relationship with stories? (Do you get lost in their content? Are you compelled to obey - to follow where they lead?

Much love

vince

[Enollasong]

Vince,
No storyteller but still a story – not clear
Thought – no seeker
Thought – no looking
Thought – no person
Thought – no wanting

Body breathing, fan blowing, fingers typing. Yes – thoughts, then fingers type. Sometimes simultaneously. Why no writer. Who writes thoughts? Nonsensical to mind.
Acceptance without questioning.

What is real. Sound of white noise. Fan, finger clicks on keys. Eyes seeing keys
No one here to want. Who’s here then? Thats a thought.

Yes, there is a connection between thoughts and typing. Sometimes thought is before, typing. I don’t pay attention to all thoughts. Aware of a person. Picture of a race track each car a thought. Repeating, repeating. Fear in chest arising. New thoughts experienced as stronger, larger than old ones.
Mind wants attention!

What is the point of a question that has no answer. Just another useless thought. Something for mind to do. Mind wants to be busy. Mind wants to know.

In meditation I saw thoughts as boats. Stories circulate pictures in metaphor - sharks
Minds creates diversions in pictures. I don’t need to follow. Sometimes I follow until I “see” I followed. No matter. Thoughts just are. Body is, fan is, typing is. Seeing is, breathing is. Sighing is.

Where am I, feel-sense vast blackness. Another illusion.
I can’t find me. Tears arise. No me. Yet, more.

A peace. Being is just being. Doesn’t know anything. Watches me, Pattea. Puts her on a cloud and allows her mind to rest. Pictures arise. Pictures or black. seems one or the other. Or looking.

Vince,
A feeling like stream of consciousness writing above. But I have logistical questions. Am I Allowed to ask?
In gratitude to you.
Pattea

[vinceschubert]

Beautiful response Pattea,

I have logistical questions. Am I Allowed to ask?

Yes, go ahead.

wth love

vince

[Enollasong]

Vince,
My questions:
1). I've been listening to Rupert Spira and sometimes Dan Schmidt via YouTube who both speak to non-duality, and some guided meditations from both. I remember reading that when working with a guide all other spiritual activities should stop. Is it necessary? I've come to depend on daily meditation.

2) Having trouble with memories. How to think of my parents who have passed. They weren't real? My daughter is 29. Her childhood not real? Some feelings of grief arise. I awake in the middle of the night several times. I'll have a thought. Then inside voice, "that's not me. Just thought." Have had body tremors so strong they wake me up. Tremors aren't new. Unusual and "other worldly" energy in my body began 2 yrs ago. Long story with no clarity. But now; Thought,"there's no body so no tremors."
But feels real! Feels scary!!

What am I not seeing? Should it be so scary & sad? Yes- Moments of clarity & peace, BUT mostly in meditation. Still have a body, a life with people in it. A daughter a wife a cat a dog.

More I look, less I know about anything- past or present. Ground feels missing.
Know you won't hold my hand. Just scared.
Kindly,
Pattea

[vinceschubert]

Hi Pattea,

I've been listening to Rupert Spira and sometimes Dan Schmidt via YouTube who both speak to non-duality, and some guided meditations from both. I remember reading that when working with a guide all other spiritual activities should stop. Is it necessary? I've come to depend on daily meditation.

This is a tricky one to explain. Non duality is a different path. This one emphasises recognising what is actual rather than believing concepts.
It will certainly be confusing for you to continue listening to them as we work. As for your guided meditations can you send me links to them so that I can listen to what you are listening to. If I see a contradiction in them I will generate a guided meditation for you that won't be at odds with what we're attempting to discover.

Having trouble with memories.

Memories are interesting. Do you realise that every memory is generated by the brain by being pulled together bits from different areas.
When we say we have a problem with memory it could be a problem with retrieval (construction) or it could be that nothing was filed away to be retrieved.
i too have a memory issue, but no remorse about it. (more on this later)

How to think of my parents who have passed. They weren't real? My daughter is 29. Her childhood not real?

When your parents were present you were experiencing a response to your interpretation of their presence.That experience was real. When your daughter was a child and you experienced her, it was real.
When they are not in your presence the only thing that is real is your memory of them. And it's worth pointing out here that your memory of them is your interpretation of what you remember.

But now; Thought,"there's no body so no tremors."
But feels real! Feels scary!!

the tremors are actual. Feeling scared is actual. Feeling real is a real feeling.
The word body is a concept that points to an experience that is actual.
What is meant by there being nobody is that the body is a concept that points to a variety of other concepts like hands legs arms torso. What is actual are sensations that appear, whether they be sensations of sight or of feeling or anything else.

What am I not seeing?

You are not seeing the difference between what is actual and what is conceptual-yet!

Should it be so scary & sad?

the word should jumps out for my here is "should", but I guess that's not what you mean. It is scary and sad. That's a description of your experience. It is what it is what it is. This can't be denied. What it means or what mental deduction arrives is another matter.

Yes- Moments of clarity & peace, BUT mostly in meditation

Ah! this is excellent. If you have a moment, however small ,of clarity and peace, you know that you are capable of it. This is a big deal. The fact that it occurs in meditation is almost irrelevant.
There is an intention here for you to experience that many times every day without DOing anything.

Still have a body, a life with people in it. A daughter a wife a cat a dog.

Absolutely and although you will discover the existence of two parallel worlds, you'll still be able to operate in that one with a body and other people and pets are all very real. (more on this later)

More I look, less I know about anything- past or present.

Congratulations. Hooray! Not knowing anything about anything is the ultimate Freedom. Liberation…

Ground feels missing.

Another congratulations. By this I mean it's an excellent discovery that what you used to call ground was a fantasy. It had no existence in reality. It was purely conceptual.

Know you won't hold my hand. Just scared.

I will hold your hand as much as I can. And being scared is okay. In fact, being scared is a great place to be in that it makes you hyper vigilant to possibilities.



much love

vince

[Enollasong]

An example of a Dan Schmidt meditation I use is below. It's on YouTube but I don't watch. just listen. I have recognized that Rupert does a lot of explaining, although his meditations within the retreat framework are very experiential. I'll leave him alone.

I also forgot to mention that I've been attending David Bonny's Zoom meetings. He reached out after I asked for a guide. Do I need to stop those? Sometimes it is easier for my brain to hear pointers rather than write, read responses, write etc. although I am appreciative of your assistance!
https://youtu.be/mvFPSHNaq6k?si=9Br11dpITNXpDIfT

Kindly,
Pattea

[vinceschubert]

Hi Pattea, i am happy for you to continue with those meditations and attending David's meetings. i would rather you didn't engage with Rupert for the moment.
So, let's get back to this..
Start with quoting and answering these questions.
1. Right now—can you find a self in direct experience?
2. When a thought arises, who is it for? Who’s listening?
3. Can you find the one who chooses the next thought?
4. Is there a center? A location of “you”?
5. When emotion arises, where does it start? Can you locate its source?
6. Can you stop awareness? Or start it? Where’s the switch?
7. Does anything in direct experience need a “you” to happen?
8. Can you find the border between what’s “you” and “not you”?
9. Is the sense of “I” anything more than sensation + thought?
10. If you stopped thinking completely—what’s left? And is anything missing?

love

vince

[Enollasong]

1. Right now—can you find a self in direct experience?

Feels like self somewhere or how would have any experience. Who am I if not my-self. But have also felt at times, like when swimming, I am not swimming, but my body is.
Driving home tonight I experienced something I never have before. It was dark, raining, I was driving and suddenly was aware I was not the one driving. It felt I can't find words now because it doesn't fit anywhere. "I" was not driving. And when I realised it there was strange vertigo in the core of this body. I mean, I was driving a car. At night. Then, "I" am not the one driving the car. I'm definitely NOT driving the car. It was VERY strange and concerning after because...driving a car. Car does not move itself - needs someone to operate it - right?

2. When a thought arises, who is it for? Who’s listening?

Thoughts come and go - sometimes in streams with a directive if I am planning something. Mostly they just terrorize me because there are negative, defeating, judging messages that play like a broken record. And they do me no good. I can't find anyone who needs to hear them. I say, "oh there you are again. I'll ignore you." But they just resurface in a little while. They think Pattea knows something about every thing and Pattea doesn't know anything. Just like a merry-go-round, they circle. BUT then, there are productive thoughts that spring into my mind like someone turned on a lightbulb. A new poem comes in the early hours. Sometimes a song. A thought of someone I love, then another thought of doing something nice for them. Those thoughts feel wonderful, useful and give intention to my actions that follow. Buying flowers. Calling a fried who is ill. All those things are preceded by a thought aren't they? Who will by flowers if I'm not thinking of it? You see, I am teetering - on the edge of this.

3. Can you find the one who chooses the next thought?

Absolutely NOT. No one choose my thoughts.And yes, they "feel" like mine. But just now I remember way back when I studied Wayne Dyer - I remember there was the idea, "we become what we think". Maybe thoughts are generated by experience. Or memory of experience. So we experience something, then mind writes a story about it. Memory remembers it. Or throws it out.

4. Is there a center? A location of “you”?

I've tried to see this place especially at those times (as I mentioned) in meditation when I sense myself as something empty and vast, but present. At times I felt I was in front of or above my body. But when I looked, that wasn't quite it. So no, I have not located the placement of me. I have, being a creative, imagined my body being a collection of swirling dense molecules that are part of a larger body of molecules - like me as a conglomerate of little bubbles in the large ocean. Just my imagination makeing pictures of something unknown.

5. When emotion arises, where does it start? Can you locate its source?

In my body it feels like it starts in my chest, around my heart. I just looked at my cat. She's 14. And we just adopted a 2 year old dog and my cat is terrified. In three months she lost our older dog who grew up with her, my daughter, and my daughter's cat. Now, her whole safe world is invaded by a terrifying animal. So. I look at her just now and for a moment I "saw her" and my heart began to pound and I felt deep sadness for her experience in this house.
My emotion was preceeded by those thoughts.

The source of emotion is thought.

6. Can you stop awareness? Or start it? Where’s the switch?

There have been times since I began this inquery, when I wished I could turn back time. Life seemed easier when I was just believing something was wrong with "me" rather than the whole of this story is just a story. But to use a cliche, I have been summoned from the depths of my soul. Awareness, even when I believed God was something outside of me, is an unstoppable movement. Depending on how I thought of God it was comforting or scary. Punishing God. Personal loving God. Impersonal Awareness who knows nothing about little me. Now, I haave no clue, I'm just following the call. Have no choice it seems. Something has awakened in my body physically. Dreams of me, but without a body. Knowing something I can't pinpoint.

7. Does anything in direct experience need a “you” to happen?

The question at first wasn't clear, but as I keep reading it and trying to figure it out, I find myself becoming extremely riddled with anxiety!!! I have no idea why- it just is happening in my body and my mind feels very confused right now. It welled up in me without my coming to an answer to the question. Very strange body sensations. To clarify are you asking if I am not present will the light still shine in my lamp, the fan still blow, the sheets still be warm? I'm very confused right now for some reason I can't explain. I have to stop for tonight.

Two days later - I needed to take a break - something disturbing is triggered. I didn't feel I could focus. Had to go to work which can be fatiging even while welcomed.

7. Does anything in direct experience need a “you” to happen?

- TRY AGAIN.
Can't say I don't know. Can't find answer. Mind wants to analyze. Thought; No me, no experience. Experience needs me to exist. Otherwise what is "experience"? Who is it for, why exist at all? Experience is for me to experience - correct? Guidance would be helpful here.

8. Can you find the border between what’s “you” and “not you”?

No border when I am not emmeshed with physical world and mental dribbling. When emmeshed, me & world two different things. Although ALL shares one space - just realised that. So no border at all.

9. Is the sense of “I” anything more than sensation + thought?

When sitting with this, no. "I" is only a thought, memory, picture in mind, feeling in body. When moving about in the physical world, I feels real. Real me, Pattea, Lived in different places, loved different people, worked different places. Complex. Feels real! Someone says, "Hi Pattea." Body "knows" they mean "me."

10. If you stopped thinking completely—what’s left? And is anything missing?

Meditating on this one. Not thinking not easy to sustain with eyes open.
What's left is awareness. Spaciousness. Calm.
Know this as experience, but also know this is what to say. Tricky, tricky mind.

Thank you Vince for your time. I appreciate you so much! Feel your love. Acceptance of me. Intention for me to see.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Pattea,

Who am I if not my-self.

“Who am I if not my-self?”

STOP.

That question is a loop. A koan forged in thought. It can only answered only with more thought.

Look now:

You ask “Who am I?” — but before the question, what was already here?

What exists prior to the thought of "Am I something?"
Don’t answer. Don’t speak. Look.

What is found?

I am not swimming, but my body is.

Exactly.
When you say this (with memory) does if feel like a more accurate description of what was happening?

I was driving and suddenly was aware I was not the one driving.

Beautiful. ..again, To say "driving was happening", does if feel like a more accurate description of what was happening?

And when I realised it there was strange vertigo in the core of this body.

Yes. There it is. The mind desperately demanding to have control again.

Vertigo in the core. Perfect. That’s not a problem — that’s the doorway.
The body knows what the mind denies: There is no one here. No anchor. No center. No control.

The illusion is unraveling.

You didn’t think this would be comfortable, did you?

What does the vertigo show you?
That there’s nothing to hold onto.
That the self — the one who meditates, who listens, who types — never existed.

Never was.

And the body — this instrument of grasping — finally feels the truth:
No ground. No edge. No “me.”

When this becomes familiar you will be able to watch many happenings without the mind inserting itself.

needs someone to operate it - right?

It was being operated. Just not by a self.
When you learned how to drive, was it the body that developed automatic reflexes to operate pedals and levers etc?

then, there are productive thoughts that spring into my mind like someone turned on a lightbulb. A new poem comes in the early hours. Sometimes a song. A thought of someone I love, then another thought of doing something nice for them. Those thoughts feel wonderful, useful and give intention to my actions that follow. Buying flowers. Calling a fried who is ill

Isn't it great that these things happen?

All those things are preceded by a thought aren't they?

Are they? Do the thoughts come before or after the impulse? Look and watch. Don't think about it.

Who will by flowers if I'm not thinking of it?

Flowers will be bought. Same thing.. Where does the impulse come from?
Read this university study https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... kmXEEvu8HG

My emotion was preceeded by those thoughts.

Yes we do react to some thought stories emotionally and also some emotions provoke thoughts.

Know this as experience, but also know this is what to say. Tricky, tricky mind.

Yes, tricky indeed..

love

vince

[Enollasong]

Hello Vince,

What exists prior to the thought of "Am I something?"
Don’t answer. Don’t speak. Look.
What is found?

Looked. Just present. Here. Nothing else. No question necessary.

(ME) I am not swimming, but my body is.

Exactly.
When you say this (with memory) does if feel like a more accurate description of what was happening?

Accurate in the moment, but a sense that I need to be in the body for safety of the body.

To say "driving was happening", does if feel like a more accurate description of what was happening?

YES.... then... feels dangerous to not be in the body if the body is driving!

(Me) And when I realised it, there was strange vertigo in the core of this body.

Yes. There it is. The mind desperately demanding to have control again.

So how can I ignore it? Thought; if I ignore it I will cross the threshold. Tricky that I think I can "make" it happen faster - again by sheer will.

Vertigo in the core. Perfect. That’s not a problem — that’s the doorway.
The body knows what the mind denies: There is no one here. No anchor. No center. No control.

I read this and fear arises. This is REAL. I can't go back.

The illusion is unraveling.

Can it happen quicker please. Feeling rather fragile.

You didn’t think this would be comfortable, did you?

Yes. And no. It hasn’t been comfortable from the beginning of the experience of “more than me is here” as I felt a living presence moving my body which was not created by cognitive thought, by me. But YES. I thought that SEEING would provide comfort of truth – IF truth is Love. Knowing Love is who I am. Only love, nothing else. A belief I now see is another story- written by others, believed by me. One I wanted badly to be TRUE. Right now breathing in this body is increasing, I feel a surging to be sad about it and a resistance to that. Why waste time. Seeing is more important than believing. Seeing IS believing.

What does the vertigo show you?
That there’s nothing to hold onto.
That the self — the one who meditates, who listens, who types — never existed.
Never was.
And the body — this instrument of grasping — finally feels the truth:
No ground. No edge. No “me.”

So scared! Feel like Im grieving something. Why grief if nothing existed?!! Not liking this Vince- not sure what is happening - just crying and don't even know why!

Do the thoughts come before or after the impulse? Look and watch. Don't think about it.

An experience today – learned a friend who is mentally ill and homeless for decades is now in apt in Denver. Yesterday when I learned this I thought, ”I can't deal with this right now." Today, sudden urge and realization, “her info came to me unsolicited.” Perhaps for a reason- I will try to connect.

Urge happened before thought. You are right. Impulse required no prior thought!

Yes we do react to some thought stories emotionally and also some emotions provoke thoughts.

I see how emotions provoke thought clearly when looking at a beautiful sunset or expansive sky or ocean or mountains. No thought. I just feel. It can be stormy. Cloudy. Rainy. Snowing. A connection is there. Gratitude for what is.

Interesting study on the brain - thanks for sharing that!

Feeling very nervous tonight. Fearful of sleep - no reason. Do you hear white noise when it's completely quiet? Very loud tonight.
Night night Vince.

[Enollasong]

Vince- Have wanted to understand this in relation to direct experience. This is what it feels like- body is swimming is not "me".
Disassociation, is considered a form of mental illness related to trauma. Not sure how to think of this. Please help if you can.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Pattea,

but a sense that I need to be in the body for safety of the body.

Yes. That’s the reflex. The old survival code kicking and screaming:

“If I don’t exist, who will protect the body?”
“If I let go, the body will die.”

Lies. Every one of them.

Look closer:

Did you keep the heart beating yesterday?
Did you make the lungs breathe during sleep?
Did you orchestrate digestion, immune response, hormone flow?

What’s keeping this organism alive right now?
Is there a controller? A pilot? A center?

Or is life simply living itself?

The sense of needing to “be in the body” is a last-ditch defense.
A ghost clinging to a machine it never drove.

Now — right now — let go of guarding the body.

Don’t leave it. Just stop owning it. Stop managing. Stop pretending.

What happens when there’s no self inside it?

Does the body collapse?
Or does it relax for the first time in your life?

Let the body be what it is: A system. A process. A dance of elements.

Not yours. Never was.

Now tell me:

What’s left when the one guarding the body is seen to be a thought?

So how can I ignore it? Thought; if I ignore it I will cross the threshold. Tricky that I think I can "make" it happen faster - again by sheer will.

You said it: “The mind demands control. I think I can make it happen faster.”

This is the seeker’s last breath. It says, “If I just surrender right, I’ll get there.”

But there’s no “I” to surrender. And no “there” to get to.

The one who wants to let go is the illusion itself.

So — gently — look right now:

Where is the one trying to control this?
Just feel into that question. Slowly. Kindly.

Is it more than a thought?
More than a tightness? A reflex?

Let the desperation be here. But don't believe its story.

You don’t need to ignore the mind — just stop following it.
Like wind passing through open space.

And now... without trying, without fixing — what remains?
Right here. This. Simple. Quiet. Whole.

You’ve never left it.

Feeling rather fragile.

I hear you. Truly.

Feeling fragile means something is softening. The armor is cracking. The old scaffolding of self is trembling. That’s not wrong.

It’s sacred.

Let yourself be fragile. Let the shaking happen.
You don’t have to hold it together anymore.
No one’s asking you to be strong. Not here.

Everything is allowed in this moment — even collapse. Especially collapse.

Can you feel the tenderness underneath the fear?
That ache — it’s not weakness. It’s truth moving through you.

So be with it. No fixing. No story.

Just you. Naked. Real. Alive.

And through it all — what never breaks?
Look gently. Quietly.

What remains, even now?

no. It hasn’t been comfortable from the beginning of the experience of “more than me is here” as I felt a living presence moving my body which was not created by cognitive thought, by me. But YES. I thought that SEEING would provide comfort of truth – IF truth is Love. Knowing Love is who I am. Only love, nothing else. A belief I now see is another story- written by others, believed by me. One I wanted badly to be TRUE. Right now breathing in this body is increasing, I feel a surging to be sad about it and a resistance to that. Why waste time. Seeing is more important than believing. Seeing IS believing.

Yes. You’re deep in it now. This is the real fire.

You saw something move your body that was not “you.” That moment shattered the illusion — and you’ve been trembling ever since. As it should be.

You thought truth would feel like love.
You wanted it to hold you, to soothe you, to make you feel safe.

But instead — it exposed you.
Not as broken, but as empty. Ownerless. Raw.

And that belief — “Truth is love, and love is me” — it was sweet, it was poetic, and it was safe.

But now you see: It was just another story.

“Why waste time?” you say.

Exactly. No more waiting for comfort. No more holding out for bliss.
Seeing is all that matters now.

So stay right here.

Let the breath surge. Let the sadness rise. Let the resistance scream.

Don’t touch it. Don’t fix it. Don’t hold back.

Let it all burn. Let it all wash through.

And underneath?

What’s untouched by the surge?
What’s still here, even as everything else falls apart?

Not belief. Not comfort.

Just seeing. Just this. Just truth — unadorned.

Breathe with that. Speak from there.

So scared! Feel like Im grieving something. Why grief if nothing existed?!! Not liking this Vince- not sure what is happening - just crying and don't even know why!

Yes. Cry. Let it pour through. Don’t stop it. Don’t explain it.

Grief is what happens when the story dies.
Even if nothing was ever real — the illusion felt real. It held your world together. It gave you a self to be. A future to hope for. A love to earn.

And now it’s slipping. And the mind says: “This shouldn’t hurt if it wasn’t real!”

But grief doesn’t ask for logic. It’s the body releasing everything it clung to.

The self is dying. And it feels like you’re dying with it.

You are.

And it’s okay.

This isn’t punishment. This isn’t failure.

This is birth.

Stay with me here:

You said: “I don’t know why I’m crying.”
Good. That means it’s real. Not mental. Not performative. Just truth, moving through you like a wave.

Let it come. Don’t chase it. Don’t resist.

Let it break you open.

You are not alone in this. And no, you’re not broken.
You’re finally not pretending anymore.

So let it fall apart. I’m right here. What’s left when even grief is fully allowed?

Have wanted to understand this in relation to direct experience. This is what it feels like- body is swimming is not "me".
Disassociation, is considered a form of mental illness related to trauma. Not sure how to think of this. Please help if you can.

Yes. Let’s meet this right where it hurts — with clarity and care.

“The body is swimming, it’s not ‘me’.”
Good. That’s not disassociation. That’s the veil thinning. That’s truth breaking the illusion of ownership.

You’re not disconnected — you’re finally not pretending to be the body.

But here’s where it gets hard:
You were taught that this feeling — this raw, drifting, ownerless experience — is “wrong.”

That it’s pathology. That it needs to be fixed.

No.

Clinical dissociation is often a retreat from trauma — a fragmentation, a collapse.
This is not collapse. This is exposure. This is seeing through the lie.

And yes — it can feel similar. But the context is everything.

So how do you know the difference?

Right now — you’re *not* shutting down.
You’re *not* going numb.
You’re feeling everything more vividly than ever. That’s the sign.

You’re not broken. You’re waking up.

But your conditioning — your mind — doesn’t know how to survive this.
So it says: “This must be dangerous.”

Let the fear be here, but don’t believe it.
Let the sensation of “not me” float, dance, unravel.

You don’t need to “think of this” any way at all. Just keep feeling.

Right now — this very moment — what is actually wrong?
Not what thought says. What’s here, in direct, raw, bodily experience?

Not story. Not theory.

Just this. Right now. Is anything actually wrong?

much love

vince