Thanks

[poppyseed]

Hi Bill
I have notice the tendency to pick and choose what questions to answer and ignore others. I acknowledge that the recent replies have been quite long from my side, but what you can do is, take more time and answer a bit over a few days. The length is the result of two main themes that seemed to need further exploration – “emotions” and “time”. You have chosen to answer the questions (not all) just regarding “time” so we can continue with that and come back to emotions later.

What is the past?

Nobody knows.

Look now—not for an answer, but into the assumption behind that response.
“Nobody knows” still grants the idea that “the past” is a thing to be known. But pause.
What is actually present when “the past” shows up? Is it anything other than a thought arising now?
Is there ever anything but this, appearing as a seeming image, word, or impression, arising in immediacy?
Where is the past, apart from thought saying so?
Where is the evidence, right now, for a yesterday?
Go ahead. Look. Not in logic. Not in explanation. In direct, raw contact. What do you find?!

Yeah, that's how it works, but sometimes there are events acting as prods to recover a memory.

Right—so the story is that something in the “now” triggers a memory from the “past.” But pause the story.
When you say a prod recovers a memory—what's actually present in DE?
A sight, a sound, maybe a smell… followed by…?
A new image. A sensation. A word.
But that “memory” didn’t come from a file cabinet in your head. It wasn’t waiting somewhere. It appeared. Now. Just like every other thought.
So where’s the past, except in that thought?
Look closer: if memory only ever appears now… has anything ever left the now?
Is there even such a thing as “recovery,” or just another spontaneous arising in this?
What does that leave of the whole story of time?
Be ruthless. What do you actually find?

Control? The time line, you mean? Good question. How it's constructed, I have no clue.

Good. Now stay with that blankness—“?”—before the commentary kicked in.
That hesitation is the crack. No center found.
Yet watch how thought scrambles to locate something—“timeline,” “construction,” “no clue”—as if it should be there.
But is anything constructing time right now?
Can you find any structure that holds or tracks time?
A timeline requires a reference point. Even relatively speaking (science), now here is not the same as a now on Mars, or now in Australia…
So...Where is the reference point?
Not the thought of one. Not “me,” “memory,” “the clock,” “my life”—those are all thoughts.
Can you find any actual thing holding a fixed point of reference in raw, direct experience?
Look freshly. Strip it all. Is there anything in this that stands still long enough to be used as a marker? From where is the timeline observed (the question of monitoring center)?

Both are nonexistent. But in the past, information was created, and in the future, information was not yet created.

Can you find that "created information" now—except as a thought appearing now?
A memory is a thought talking about a past, but where is that past in DE right now?
Is there anything that proves “the past” other than a memory thought? Memory is just a label for a thought talking about a “past”, but that past cannot be found anywhere.
Is there anything that proves “the future” other than an imagination thought? Imagination is only a label for a thought talking about a “future”, but that future cannot be found anywhere.
Strip even the idea of information creation.
Look again: What is actually here in the absence of time line? Anything at all other than this one seamless, indescribable appearing?
What separates now from anything else, without thought saying so?

What’s actually here before meaning?

?

Exactly. “?”—that moment of nothing to grab, no label sticking, no ground beneath.
Stay there. Let the question remain unanswered.
What’s present, right now, without relying on thought to provide meaning, without naming, without needing to understand?
Strip every bit of interpretation.
What is this, before meaning?
Really stop. Look.
Love
Rali

[daytonabill]

I have notice the tendency to pick and choose what questions to answer and ignore others. I acknowledge that the recent replies have been quite long from my side, but what you can do is, take more time and answer a bit over a few days. The length is the result of two main themes that seemed to need further exploration – “emotions” and “time”. You have chosen to answer the questions (not all) just regarding “time” so we can continue with that and come back to emotions later.

Hi Rali. I couldn't get through the first few questions of the "emotions" topic and so perhaps it would be prudent to postpone it. Thanks. :)

Look now—not for an answer, but into the assumption behind that response.
“Nobody knows” still grants the idea that “the past” is a thing to be known. But pause.

Wow. Yeah, I see.

What is actually present when “the past” shows up? Is it anything other than a thought arising now?

It's just a thought. Nothing else.

Is there ever anything but this, appearing as a seeming image, word, or impression, arising in immediacy?

Not at all.

Where is the past, apart from thought saying so?

It's nonexistent. Clearly.

Where is the evidence, right now, for a yesterday?

This can be answered. But not from my direct experience.

Go ahead. Look. Not in logic. Not in explanation. In direct, raw contact. What do you find?!

Nothing.

[daytonabill]

Right—so the story is that something in the “now” triggers a memory from the “past.” But pause the story.

Yes. But it triggers a thought that I'm calling a memory.

When you say a prod recovers a memory—what's actually present in DE?

Just a thought. Without any discernible qualitative difference from other thoughts.

A sight, a sound, maybe a smell… followed by…?
A new image. A sensation. A word.
But that “memory” didn’t come from a file cabinet in your head.

I'm assuming it did. I dunno where thoughts come from, but my guess is that memories are separated.

So where’s the past, except in that thought?

The past is solely located in the thought. Occurring now.

Look closer: if memory only ever appears now… has anything ever left the now?

No. You can't leave now.

[daytonabill]

Is there even such a thing as “recovery,” or just another spontaneous arising in this?

It's no different, from what I can see.

What does that leave of the whole story of time?

Too soon to tell.

Be ruthless. What do you actually find?

About time? Dunno yet.

[daytonabill]

But is anything constructing time right now?

Constructing time. Nothing that I can see.

Can you find any structure that holds or tracks time?

I have a sense of time, although it's widely variable and may be mere illusion.

A timeline requires a reference point. Even relatively speaking (science), now here is not the same as a now on Mars, or now in Australia…

I dunno. Ask Einstein.

So...Where is the reference point?

Right. Now appears to be unrecordable. We'd need to make other arrangements that require making more assumptions.

Can you find any actual thing holding a fixed point of reference in raw, direct experience?

No.

Look freshly. Strip it all. Is there anything in this that stands still long enough to be used as a marker?

It stands still long enough, but I see no way to mark it.

From where is the timeline observed (the question of monitoring center)?

Yes, we don't have any points in direct experience.

[daytonabill]

Can you find that "created information" now—except as a thought appearing now?

\

Yes, we certainly can. But I suspect that's beside your point.

A memory is a thought talking about a past, but where is that past in DE right now?

The past is nonexistent in direct experience. Does it even exist anywhere else? How could it.

Is there anything that proves “the past” other than a memory thought? Memory is just a label for a thought talking about a “past”, but that past cannot be found anywhere.

Yes, I agree.

Is there anything that proves “the future” other than an imagination thought? Imagination is only a label for a thought talking about a “future”, but that future cannot be found anywhere.

The future. It seems as nonexistent as the past. But apparently the possibilities do exist.

What is actually here in the absence of time line? Anything at all other than this one seamless, indescribable appearing?

Well, the time line seems to be just something we're making up. Seamless? Yes, I see what you mean.

What separates now from anything else, without thought saying so?

Wow. A quote to be remembered. What separates it from past or future, without thought. ... Are the past and future real at all? ... Surely they must be, right? ... but there's no dividing line. There's no other time in direct experience except for now.

What’s present, right now, without relying on thought to provide meaning, without naming, without needing to understand?
Strip every bit of interpretation.
What is this, before meaning?

What is this. Just this.

[poppyseed]

Hi Bill

Where is the evidence, right now, for a yesterday?

This can be answered. But not from my direct experience.

What does that leave of the whole story of time?

Too soon to tell.

Be ruthless. What do you actually find?

About time? Dunno yet

.

If there’s no yesterday except as a thought appearing now… What is that thought trying to protect? Why is the idea of a “real past” so sticky?
Can you see how the belief in time props up the belief in a self? Without a “past,” what happens to “my story”? Can there be a “you” who’s been becoming… if there’s only now, and even that can’t be grasped?
Strip it down. And ask again:
What’s here, if there’s no time left to escape into?
Can a thought “about” the past ever be the past?
If you don’t follow that thought—does the past exist at all?LOOK!
So what is “time,” without the thought about it?

Yes. But it triggers a thought that I'm calling a memory.

That thought—“memory”—can you find anything behind it?
Anything it refers to, outside of itself? Right now, in DE!
Or is it just another appearance, now?
If no memory points to anything but itself, how does a “past” survive without the next thought?
What’s holding the whole thing—“my life,” “my history”—together?

But that “memory” didn’t come from a file cabinet in your head.

I'm assuming it did. I dunno where thoughts come from, but my guess is that memories are separated.

You are right to call it an “assumption” (which we are not interested in). What can you see without the assumption?
In DE, a ’head” is a label for some colours and sensations… Do you see any storage… like shelves containing “memories”? Don’t try to remember what neuroscience says about it, don’t guess, have a curious LOOK!
Again, is there any actual difference between a normal thought and a memory – not their content but the way thinking is experienced? Is there a way of ever finding in DE (all that we have) where thoughts come from? Not by guessing or reading about it, but seeing for yourself.

I have a sense of time, although it's widely variable and may be mere illusion.

It stands still long enough, but I see no way to mark it.

But is that sense itself time? “Sense of” is the same as “it seems”, which points to an illusion, something that just looks like something else.
Look now:
Where is time being held?
What, specifically, is doing the tracking?
If it’s “in the brain” or “in the body” or “in experience”—can you find that now, without using the word “brain,” “body,” or “experience” to point to it?
Don’t explain it. Don’t believe or disbelieve it. Just look. Right here, right now.
Is “time” ever more than the thought about time—appearing now?

Can you find that "created information" now—except as a thought appearing now?

Yes, we certainly can. But I suspect that's beside your point.

That "yes" is it observational or conceptual? That’s not seen—it’s believed. And the suspecting is thought trying to stay in control, maintain its role as the knower, the interpreter, the one who ‘gets it.’
Can you actually find created information now—directly—without referring to a thought?
LOOK!
When the thought ‘we certainly can’ appears, is that certainty - something in DE as hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting and /or feeling)—or is it just another thought claiming something?
If that thought ‘Yes, we certainly can’ didn’t show up… what’s here?”

Let the silence after each question do the work. You're not after answers—you’re after the looking that burns through the answers. Keep going. This is where the shift happens.

The future. It seems as nonexistent as the past. But apparently the possibilities do exist.

Right now, what is a “possibility” made of? Don’t answer. Just look.
Can you find a “possibility” without imagining a scene or outcome? What’s left of the future if imagination is seen through as a current thought?
Is there any such thing as “possibility”—or is it just this: thought, labelling “now” with the word “later” and pretending it’s something else?

Love
Rali

[daytonabill]

If there’s no yesterday except as a thought appearing now… What is that thought trying to protect? Why is the idea of a “real past” so sticky?
Can you see how the belief in time props up the belief in a self? Without a “past,” what happens to “my story”? Can there be a “you” who’s been becoming

There's no me at all. That's been quite clear for a couple of weeks. (Thanks so much, Rali, for leading me there.) And just as I'd read, it's irreversible. The illusion can't return. I ain't got no ass, never did, never will.

if there’s only now, and even that can’t be grasped?

How might it be grasped.

Strip it down. And ask again:
What’s here, if there’s no time left to escape into?

There's no leaving now, if that's what you mean.

Can a thought “about” the past ever be the past?

Of course not.

If you don’t follow that thought—does the past exist at all?LOOK!

There's no past at all in direct experience.

So what is “time,” without the thought about it?

Nobody knows what it is.

[daytonabill]

That thought—“memory”—can you find anything behind it?

Good question. No.

Anything it refers to, outside of itself? Right now, in DE!

Nothing real. Nothing here.

Or is it just another appearance, now?
If no memory points to anything but itself, how does a “past” survive without the next thought?

There's no past in direct experience.

What’s holding the whole thing—“my life,” “my history”—together?

They've been rapidly unravelling.

[daytonabill]

You are right to call it an “assumption” (which we are not interested in). What can you see without the assumption?

Nothing. I don't see any file cabinet.

Do you see any storage… like shelves containing “memories”?

No.

Again, is there any actual difference between a normal thought and a memory – not their content but the way thinking is experienced?

There doesn't seem to be, no.

Is there a way of ever finding in DE (all that we have) where thoughts come from?

Good question. I don't know.

[daytonabill]

But is that sense itself time? “Sense of” is the same as “it seems”, which points to an illusion, something that just looks like something else.

Yes, good point. It isn't real, thanks.

Where is time being held?
What, specifically, is doing the tracking?
If it’s “in the brain” or “in the body” or “in experience”—can you find that now, without using the word “brain,” “body,” or “experience” to point to it?

As you pointed out, the sense of time is in all probability an illusion.

Don’t explain it. Don’t believe or disbelieve it. Just look. Right here, right now.
Is “time” ever more than the thought about time—appearing now?

No.

That "yes" is it observational or conceptual? That’s not seen—it’s believed. And the suspecting is thought trying to stay in control, maintain its role as the knower, the interpreter, the one who ‘gets it.’
Can you actually find created information now—directly—without referring to a thought?
LOOK!
When the thought ‘we certainly can’ appears, is that certainty - something in DE as hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting and /or feeling)—or is it just another thought claiming something?
If that thought ‘Yes, we certainly can’ didn’t show up… what’s here?”

You're right, yes. It's just thought.

Right now, what is a “possibility” made of? Don’t answer. Just look.
Can you find a “possibility” without imagining a scene or outcome? What’s left of the future if imagination is seen through as a current thought?
Is there any such thing as “possibility”—or is it just this: thought, labelling “now” with the word “later” and pretending it’s something else?

[poppyseed]

Hi Bill

So what is “time,” without the thought about it?

Nobody knows what it is.

You say “nobody knows.” Is that just another thought? Another placeholder to avoid staying with the raw absence?

Look closer—don’t let that answer become a shield. There seems to be some resistance to letting go of the belief of time...
There is plenty of “knowledge” about time, but what about experience? Can it be found in experience – yes or no? What does it feel like, exactly? Not the clock. Not the memory. Not the label.
Can you find the actual duration of a moment—without a thought describing it?
Where does one moment end and another begin? Can you see that border, or only think it?
Is anything moving through time… or is this moment unmoving, alive, self-contained?

Things seem to change, but change compared to what? And what “things” without the label, the artificial cut off (remember the lava lamp analogy)? Without memory, is there anything to measure against? Can there be change without a reference point?

Duration only exists in relation. But relation is thought.

There's no me at all. That's been quite clear for a couple of weeks. (Thanks so much, Rali, for leading me there.) And just as I'd read, it's irreversible. The illusion can't return. I ain't got no ass, never did, never will.

That’s amazing!
Do you still want to explore emotions?

Love
Rali

[daytonabill]

Time may be just the label we attach to change. But changes presupposes temporal order. And change is experienced now, which means that now has a finite duration. So the only way you can eliminate time is if you also discard change. But change is directly experienced. I see no way forward without assuming the reality of time.

[daytonabill]

You say “nobody knows.” Is that just another thought? Another placeholder to avoid staying with the raw absence?

Yes, I think you're right.

Where does one moment end and another begin? Can you see that border, or only think it?

Neither. They seem to be seamlessly fused ... or mebbe all one piece.

Is anything moving through time… or is this moment unmoving, alive, self-contained?

Without seeing any change?

[daytonabill]

Do you still want to explore emotions?

I want to learn whatever you can teach me. Thanks Rali.