Hi Vince,
I see what happened now with the quoting, even more entagled. Can you please delete all the untangled posts so that I can start afresh?
Coenraad
I am ready for guidance
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hello Vince
Untangled version 3
Yes. **Something feels the suffering.** There’s pain, sensation, intensity—and then the mind arrives and says, *"this is mine."* But look directly:
**What is this "something"?** - It is a collection of feelings/emotions/sensations, a familiar feeling of a negative or low vibrational state that my "whole" finds itself in and I give/label it a negative. Its a force of sorts that I experience and am aware of.
Can you find an actual entity experiencing it? Or is there simply the raw, unowned sensation—appearing, shifting, disappearing? - I cannot find an entity except that I presume its coming from my bodies direction. Yes, those raw sensations are always changing moment to moment.
Suffering intensifies when a mental position is taken—when there's an identity ("I am suffering," "This is happening to me"). But without this narrative, is it still suffering, or is it simply sensation arising and passing? - Yes I see that a mental position taken would lead me to suffering. With no narrative there is no suffering and yes, the sensations keep coming and going
Look now, immediately, directly:
**Who or what exactly owns this suffering?** - My mind and my feelings or perhaps something tied or related to me
**Where is the one who suffers?** - Somewhere in my space of beingness
Exactly! You see it: the idea that you have to be something is the root of the suffering. Look closely, right now, as you type these words:
Who is typing? My fingers from my body being instructed by senses, thought, memory, habit and some reason as to why I should be answering by typing.
Is there really someone there, behind the eyes, directing these words onto the screen? Or are fingers simply moving, words appearing, thoughts flowing? - I am not sure what or if someone is there but there is this being that I presume is conneted to this person typing.
You ask, "With what intention am I seeking liberation?"
But look right now—is there really someone who needs liberation? - Something tells me that liberation could be positive for me. It tells me that I am a seeker and that I should persue something by doing something or there might not be any results.
Or is there just the idea "I must become free," playing itself out again, spinning another identity? Yep, its definitely an idea I constructed way back even before I started meditating and walking this "path" or guidance that I am on. So I see that I am looking for a result or moment to play out that will or might satisfy me or this idea created.
Check this directly:
Is this about arriving somewhere? - It was my intention yes but it also feels like it is totally not in my control where I arrive. Those are just pipedreams to feed my "then it will be better" cravings.
Or is this exactly about realizing that there's nowhere to arrive? Yes it is. So its just being okay and contempt right now, no matter what is happening out there or in here?
Right now, if you let go of the expectation of "arriving," is anything missing at all? Or is this moment already complete, exactly as it is? - I feel it already complete when there is no expectations.
Are shame and guilt personal possessions, or are they just thoughts, feelings, and sensations appearing in the present moment? - They must just be thoughts in the present moment, I cannot draw them or physically show them to you or myself, but I can try and explain what I think I feel like.
Right now—don’t analyze, just **look:**
- Is there an actual entity here who *owns* shame, or is there just the raw sensation of contraction, heaviness, maybe tension? - No, no one "owns" this I would say but I am somehow connected to it by this heaviness that I connect with it.
- When guilt arises, does it have your name on it, or is it just another movement of energy appearing and dissolving? I feel affiliated to the guilt but not by my name, it stems I think from the moving energy that keeps changing all the time.
Notice that it’s only when the mind says "**this is mine**" or "**this is about me**" that the suffering intensifies.
Right now, if you don’t attach any story—
**Can you find someone who actually needs to carry shame or guilt?** - Not at all
Or are these simply waves passing through a space that you truly are? - Yes, I see them as passing waves. Some I wait out, some I can only ride out, some I "see" or welcome then they lose power
Exactly. **You’ve pinpointed the mechanism.**
Notice clearly what you said: "*The story gives me permission to feel melancholy.*"
Look at this carefully, right now, as it’s happening:
**Does melancholy need a story to exist?** - Yes it does. With no story it would just be nothing and not relevant.
**Does the story actually justify or amplify the feeling?** - As I give it a negative, it amplifies the feeling so it seems justified.
**Who exactly is being given permission?** - Some obscure idea of my percieved identity.
Without the supporting story, without the "evidence"—is melancholy still melancholy, or just a neutral sensation, floating freely? - It is or becomes just a neutral sensation if it has no "ownership".
Right now, look closely:
**Can you find the exact moment when melancholy becomes "yours"?** - Not really. But I would just wake up in the morning then it's there and I try to figure out what manifested it. I see that I should just see it as passing through. Thing is that sometimes it lingers for way too long (days) and that is what gets me, I want it away = more suffering.
Or is ownership of the feeling just another subtle thought, quietly attaching itself to sensation? - It definitely is! This morning a had a random thought when I felt kind of a similar sensation walking down a hill in France anout 30 years ago. I see the insanity of this.
What happens if you don’t take the bait? - Nothing, it cancels itself out.
Perfectly seen!
Notice how clearly you've described it:
The mind says, "*I want to find purpose, passion, connection—then I'll be complete.*" But see right now—this very thought creates a feeling of incompleteness, of something missing.
**Check immediately:**
- **Does the desire for purpose, passion, or connection indicate something actually missing right now?** - It feels like it yes.
- **Is fulfillment truly found "out there" in an event, or is it another mental story postponing peace?** - No, my heart says fulfillment is not "out there" and will never be no matter what I do or chase. I see how this story is postponing peace, now.
Without following the thought about what might make things better in the future:
**Is anything actually wrong or incomplete right now, exactly as it is?** - Like exactly right now at this moment I feel intensely fatigued and a bit irritated due to a chain of events/thoughts: Had a less than average meditation session last night, didnt sleep well, woke up groggy... But without those stories and current emotions felt, nothing would be wrong or incomplete.
Look directly. No future. No past. **Just this.**
What's left? - Me just being right here, breathing and witnessing.
Yes. Exactly this.
Thunder. Birds chirping. Rain.
Clearer and peaceful, without anyone needing protection.
See how effortlessly peace appears when there's no identity to defend, no narrative to uphold. - Yes, crytsal clear.
Right now:
Does anything need to be added to this peace? - No
Can it be improved? - No. I see when I try to improve it, I create suffering and confusion.
Or is it simply this—complete, exactly as it is? - Yes
Rest here. This is home. - Aka Loving awareness, beingness and "now"? I see at the same space a tree or a rock would "reside" in with no spicing up extra ideas/thoughts to make it more than it actually is.
Yes! Clearly seen.
Notice this:
The mind is already *anticipating* its own disturbance—*waiting* for a struggle to return. But right now:
- **Where exactly is this future struggle?** - Somewhere in a mental postbox waiting to be delivered and I just have no control how and when this would happen.
- **Does it exist anywhere outside a thought about it?** - Not at all
If you don't anticipate or resist, can struggle even arise? No. And even if it does arise again—so what? It’s just another cloud passing through. - I get you on this, just another passing cloud.
Right now, without anticipation:
**Is there any struggle here at all?** - Apart from my current mood which is just passing through, there is no struggle. I see that I can be deeply unhappy or frustrated and hard on myself for things not in my control.
Or is this simply the peace that's always been, quietly waiting beneath every passing thought? - Yes, that peace is there always but some times/days my filter is not "set" to realise it. I see another familiar loop here, got to bring myself down so I can pick myself up again. It's an addiction pattern playing on repeat.
Beautifully clear.
But look directly at your question: "**How do I stay here?**"
- **Who is it that needs to stay?** - My inner longing/drive to reside in peace all/most of the time. I have this urge to just flow with life but I see how I create my own resistance over and over...
- **Can you actually leave this moment, this clarity, this peace?** - No. But I sure can think/feel myself out of it it seems.
The idea that you must "stay" here is another subtle trick of the mind, creating a seeker, trying to turn even this freedom into something to be maintained. - Wow! I see this and makes perfect sense. The maintenance of my wanted/desired state is creating even more suffering.
Look clearly, immediately:
**Is there really somewhere else you can be, other than exactly where you already are?** - No I cannot. But my mind/ego/programming seems to differ completely. By now I am seeing that I cannot rely on my mind as I once thought I could or should.
Check directly, in this moment—
**Can this peace ever truly be lost?** - About two weeks ago, at the time I was in hospital, I truly felt that I lost peace completely. It was darker and deeper felt than ever "measured" before. So I feel that, if I have lost it then so badly then, when will it happen again? Is it even possible to go darker than what I went? Pure anxiety rulling again! So that was a perception of then, but right NOW, I am somewhere between having faith and inner knowing that it cannot be lost. So no, it cannot be lost.
Or is it always here, already, effortlessly, waiting for nothing, needing nothing? - With this my mind is making a backflip again of what is my purpose here then if I dont need/want or try to do something? I am human and not a tree the mind tells me, humans should be doing something as they have hands and intelect.
See this, again and again, as often as the mind tries to move you away:
**You cannot leave this. You never have.** - Yes I see and my mind tells me sometimes it is not convinced and tries to move me away. I will practice seeing this whenever my mind shifts.
Coenraad
Untangled version 3
Yes. **Something feels the suffering.** There’s pain, sensation, intensity—and then the mind arrives and says, *"this is mine."* But look directly:
**What is this "something"?** - It is a collection of feelings/emotions/sensations, a familiar feeling of a negative or low vibrational state that my "whole" finds itself in and I give/label it a negative. Its a force of sorts that I experience and am aware of.
Can you find an actual entity experiencing it? Or is there simply the raw, unowned sensation—appearing, shifting, disappearing? - I cannot find an entity except that I presume its coming from my bodies direction. Yes, those raw sensations are always changing moment to moment.
Suffering intensifies when a mental position is taken—when there's an identity ("I am suffering," "This is happening to me"). But without this narrative, is it still suffering, or is it simply sensation arising and passing? - Yes I see that a mental position taken would lead me to suffering. With no narrative there is no suffering and yes, the sensations keep coming and going
Look now, immediately, directly:
**Who or what exactly owns this suffering?** - My mind and my feelings or perhaps something tied or related to me
**Where is the one who suffers?** - Somewhere in my space of beingness
Exactly! You see it: the idea that you have to be something is the root of the suffering. Look closely, right now, as you type these words:
Who is typing? My fingers from my body being instructed by senses, thought, memory, habit and some reason as to why I should be answering by typing.
Is there really someone there, behind the eyes, directing these words onto the screen? Or are fingers simply moving, words appearing, thoughts flowing? - I am not sure what or if someone is there but there is this being that I presume is conneted to this person typing.
You ask, "With what intention am I seeking liberation?"
But look right now—is there really someone who needs liberation? - Something tells me that liberation could be positive for me. It tells me that I am a seeker and that I should persue something by doing something or there might not be any results.
Or is there just the idea "I must become free," playing itself out again, spinning another identity? Yep, its definitely an idea I constructed way back even before I started meditating and walking this "path" or guidance that I am on. So I see that I am looking for a result or moment to play out that will or might satisfy me or this idea created.
Check this directly:
Is this about arriving somewhere? - It was my intention yes but it also feels like it is totally not in my control where I arrive. Those are just pipedreams to feed my "then it will be better" cravings.
Or is this exactly about realizing that there's nowhere to arrive? Yes it is. So its just being okay and contempt right now, no matter what is happening out there or in here?
Right now, if you let go of the expectation of "arriving," is anything missing at all? Or is this moment already complete, exactly as it is? - I feel it already complete when there is no expectations.
Are shame and guilt personal possessions, or are they just thoughts, feelings, and sensations appearing in the present moment? - They must just be thoughts in the present moment, I cannot draw them or physically show them to you or myself, but I can try and explain what I think I feel like.
Right now—don’t analyze, just **look:**
- Is there an actual entity here who *owns* shame, or is there just the raw sensation of contraction, heaviness, maybe tension? - No, no one "owns" this I would say but I am somehow connected to it by this heaviness that I connect with it.
- When guilt arises, does it have your name on it, or is it just another movement of energy appearing and dissolving? I feel affiliated to the guilt but not by my name, it stems I think from the moving energy that keeps changing all the time.
Notice that it’s only when the mind says "**this is mine**" or "**this is about me**" that the suffering intensifies.
Right now, if you don’t attach any story—
**Can you find someone who actually needs to carry shame or guilt?** - Not at all
Or are these simply waves passing through a space that you truly are? - Yes, I see them as passing waves. Some I wait out, some I can only ride out, some I "see" or welcome then they lose power
Exactly. **You’ve pinpointed the mechanism.**
Notice clearly what you said: "*The story gives me permission to feel melancholy.*"
Look at this carefully, right now, as it’s happening:
**Does melancholy need a story to exist?** - Yes it does. With no story it would just be nothing and not relevant.
**Does the story actually justify or amplify the feeling?** - As I give it a negative, it amplifies the feeling so it seems justified.
**Who exactly is being given permission?** - Some obscure idea of my percieved identity.
Without the supporting story, without the "evidence"—is melancholy still melancholy, or just a neutral sensation, floating freely? - It is or becomes just a neutral sensation if it has no "ownership".
Right now, look closely:
**Can you find the exact moment when melancholy becomes "yours"?** - Not really. But I would just wake up in the morning then it's there and I try to figure out what manifested it. I see that I should just see it as passing through. Thing is that sometimes it lingers for way too long (days) and that is what gets me, I want it away = more suffering.
Or is ownership of the feeling just another subtle thought, quietly attaching itself to sensation? - It definitely is! This morning a had a random thought when I felt kind of a similar sensation walking down a hill in France anout 30 years ago. I see the insanity of this.
What happens if you don’t take the bait? - Nothing, it cancels itself out.
Perfectly seen!
Notice how clearly you've described it:
The mind says, "*I want to find purpose, passion, connection—then I'll be complete.*" But see right now—this very thought creates a feeling of incompleteness, of something missing.
**Check immediately:**
- **Does the desire for purpose, passion, or connection indicate something actually missing right now?** - It feels like it yes.
- **Is fulfillment truly found "out there" in an event, or is it another mental story postponing peace?** - No, my heart says fulfillment is not "out there" and will never be no matter what I do or chase. I see how this story is postponing peace, now.
Without following the thought about what might make things better in the future:
**Is anything actually wrong or incomplete right now, exactly as it is?** - Like exactly right now at this moment I feel intensely fatigued and a bit irritated due to a chain of events/thoughts: Had a less than average meditation session last night, didnt sleep well, woke up groggy... But without those stories and current emotions felt, nothing would be wrong or incomplete.
Look directly. No future. No past. **Just this.**
What's left? - Me just being right here, breathing and witnessing.
Yes. Exactly this.
Thunder. Birds chirping. Rain.
Clearer and peaceful, without anyone needing protection.
See how effortlessly peace appears when there's no identity to defend, no narrative to uphold. - Yes, crytsal clear.
Right now:
Does anything need to be added to this peace? - No
Can it be improved? - No. I see when I try to improve it, I create suffering and confusion.
Or is it simply this—complete, exactly as it is? - Yes
Rest here. This is home. - Aka Loving awareness, beingness and "now"? I see at the same space a tree or a rock would "reside" in with no spicing up extra ideas/thoughts to make it more than it actually is.
Yes! Clearly seen.
Notice this:
The mind is already *anticipating* its own disturbance—*waiting* for a struggle to return. But right now:
- **Where exactly is this future struggle?** - Somewhere in a mental postbox waiting to be delivered and I just have no control how and when this would happen.
- **Does it exist anywhere outside a thought about it?** - Not at all
If you don't anticipate or resist, can struggle even arise? No. And even if it does arise again—so what? It’s just another cloud passing through. - I get you on this, just another passing cloud.
Right now, without anticipation:
**Is there any struggle here at all?** - Apart from my current mood which is just passing through, there is no struggle. I see that I can be deeply unhappy or frustrated and hard on myself for things not in my control.
Or is this simply the peace that's always been, quietly waiting beneath every passing thought? - Yes, that peace is there always but some times/days my filter is not "set" to realise it. I see another familiar loop here, got to bring myself down so I can pick myself up again. It's an addiction pattern playing on repeat.
Beautifully clear.
But look directly at your question: "**How do I stay here?**"
- **Who is it that needs to stay?** - My inner longing/drive to reside in peace all/most of the time. I have this urge to just flow with life but I see how I create my own resistance over and over...
- **Can you actually leave this moment, this clarity, this peace?** - No. But I sure can think/feel myself out of it it seems.
The idea that you must "stay" here is another subtle trick of the mind, creating a seeker, trying to turn even this freedom into something to be maintained. - Wow! I see this and makes perfect sense. The maintenance of my wanted/desired state is creating even more suffering.
Look clearly, immediately:
**Is there really somewhere else you can be, other than exactly where you already are?** - No I cannot. But my mind/ego/programming seems to differ completely. By now I am seeing that I cannot rely on my mind as I once thought I could or should.
Check directly, in this moment—
**Can this peace ever truly be lost?** - About two weeks ago, at the time I was in hospital, I truly felt that I lost peace completely. It was darker and deeper felt than ever "measured" before. So I feel that, if I have lost it then so badly then, when will it happen again? Is it even possible to go darker than what I went? Pure anxiety rulling again! So that was a perception of then, but right NOW, I am somewhere between having faith and inner knowing that it cannot be lost. So no, it cannot be lost.
Or is it always here, already, effortlessly, waiting for nothing, needing nothing? - With this my mind is making a backflip again of what is my purpose here then if I dont need/want or try to do something? I am human and not a tree the mind tells me, humans should be doing something as they have hands and intelect.
See this, again and again, as often as the mind tries to move you away:
**You cannot leave this. You never have.** - Yes I see and my mind tells me sometimes it is not convinced and tries to move me away. I will practice seeing this whenever my mind shifts.
Coenraad
-
vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hi Coenraad, and thank you.
It’s just a **collection** of sensations—nothing more. The mind steps in, labels it as “negative,” and suddenly, it becomes a *problem.* But right now, look again:
- **Is this “force” actually personal?**
- **Is it really “yours,” or is it just another movement of energy passing through?**
What happens if you drop the label, the meaning, the judgment?
If it’s just a force, just an experience—does it actually need to be resisted? Or can it simply **be here, without a fight?**
Right now, don’t push it away. Don’t try to fix it. Just **let it exist, without an owner.**
What happens?
i will attempt to avoid such long posts.
with love
vince
Yes! You see it.**What is this "something"?** - It is a collection of feelings/emotions/sensations, a familiar feeling of a negative or low vibrational state that my "whole" finds itself in and I give/label it a negative. Its a force of sorts that I experience and am aware of.
It’s just a **collection** of sensations—nothing more. The mind steps in, labels it as “negative,” and suddenly, it becomes a *problem.* But right now, look again:
- **Is this “force” actually personal?**
- **Is it really “yours,” or is it just another movement of energy passing through?**
What happens if you drop the label, the meaning, the judgment?
If it’s just a force, just an experience—does it actually need to be resisted? Or can it simply **be here, without a fight?**
Right now, don’t push it away. Don’t try to fix it. Just **let it exist, without an owner.**
What happens?
Dismiss presumptions. They are not useful in this investigation.I cannot find an entity except that I presume...
ExcellentYes I see that a mental position taken would lead me to suffering. With no narrative there is no suffering and yes, the sensations keep coming and going
Stories! Don't engage.**Who or what exactly owns this suffering?** - My mind and my feelings or perhaps something tied or related to me
**Where is the one who suffers?** - Somewhere in my space of beingness
ExcellentWho is typing? My fingers from my body being instructed by senses, thought, memory, habit
More stories..I am not sure what or if someone is there but there is this being that I presume is connected to this person typing.
Is this experienced or just another story?is this exactly about realizing that there's nowhere to arrive? Yes it is. So its just being okay and content right now, no matter what is happening out there or in here?
How do you feel about this?So I see that I am looking for a result or moment to play out that will or might satisfy me or this idea created.
is that a presumption?No, no one "owns" this I would say but I am somehow connected to it by this heaviness that I connect with it.
Ok. This is a big one. A feeling is sensations with stories attached. If you take the feeling that something is missing and remove the stories, is that sensation just a sensation?**Does the desire for purpose, passion, or connection indicate something actually missing right now?** - It feels like it yes.
To be more accurate, there would be breathing and noticing. (no me doing anything)What's left? - Me just being right here, breathing and witnessing.
Great seeing..I see another familiar loop here, got to bring myself down so I can pick myself up again. It's an addiction pattern playing on repeat.
Excellent. Another big one. Yes, for the moment you can assume that 100% of your thoughts lead to suffering.By now I am seeing that I cannot rely on my mind as I once thought I could or should.
Don't DO anything. Don't judge. Just notice.I will practice seeing this whenever my mind shifts.
i will attempt to avoid such long posts.
with love
vince
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hello Vince
Noted
Thank you
Coenraad
- No, not unless I make or feel it as personal or attach myself/thoughts to it. If I dont feed or judge it, it becomes kind of neutral and dissapears.- **Is this “force” actually personal?**
- No, it is not "mine", and yes it is just passing through.**Is it really “yours,” or is it just another movement of energy passing through?**
- It get stripped down to nothing, powerless.What happens if you drop the label, the meaning, the judgment?
- No, it doesn't have to be resisted. I see how resitance actually made "something" out of it.If it’s just a force, just an experience—does it actually need to be resisted?
- Yes, it can simply be here.Or can it simply **be here, without a fight?**
- It simply melts away without any doing/trying from me.Right now, don’t push it away. Don’t try to fix it. Just **let it exist, without an owner.** What happens?
Noted
- I see that it is just another story.Is this experienced or just another story?
- Right now, I feel more "free" dropping all the what/when if's of any story. But I see how I can quickly take this "free feeling" as plus, so witnessing it as just another story/feeling prevents me from attaching or clinging to it as well.How do you feel about this?
- It sure is just another presumption.is that a presumption?
- I dont feel sensations will be felt so strongly/personally or at all when the story is removed. So a sensation, should it arrise, is just only still a sensation. I see it the same as submesing myself in cold water, its just a direct cold experienced sensation right there, nothing else. Unless I whip something up in my mind to give it more substance or power.Ok. This is a big one. A feeling is sensations with stories attached. If you take the feeling that something is missing and remove the stories, is that sensation just a sensation?
Thank you
Coenraad
-
vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hi Coenraad,
Now on a more subtle level there is a natural high to just feeling (witnessing) the "free feeling". That's because the freedom has a good feeling built into it. It doesn't need the extra of a story to feel good.
This is a big one.
Can you see that the 'self' is the "plus"?
Although it is more than that. It is the armour against the 'minus'. That is, that it is built of stories whose purpose is to divert us away from unpleasant feelings.
Now mostly it is so successful that we aren't even aware of that discomfort.
If we do get a hint of unpleasantness, then we blame others or circumstances (apparently) outside of us.
So, to summarise, can you see that the 'self' is built entirely of stories. That it's only actual existence is in the content of thought (that is believed)?
great love
vince
I love all of your responses. ..and you can see how the story of an achievement generates a short term geed feeling. Another excellent. (another plus?)I see how I can quickly take this "free feeling" as plus,
Now on a more subtle level there is a natural high to just feeling (witnessing) the "free feeling". That's because the freedom has a good feeling built into it. It doesn't need the extra of a story to feel good.
This is a big one.
Can you see that the 'self' is the "plus"?
Although it is more than that. It is the armour against the 'minus'. That is, that it is built of stories whose purpose is to divert us away from unpleasant feelings.
Now mostly it is so successful that we aren't even aware of that discomfort.
If we do get a hint of unpleasantness, then we blame others or circumstances (apparently) outside of us.
So, to summarise, can you see that the 'self' is built entirely of stories. That it's only actual existence is in the content of thought (that is believed)?
great love
vince
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hello Vince,
Thank you
Coenraad
- Yes I can see and feel this clearly. And I have had a gentle lingering feeling of happiness lately so it is interesting to witness this playing out.and you can see how the story of an achievement generates a short term geed feeling
- Yes, I can comprehend and see this.Now on a more subtle level there is a natural high to just feeling (witnessing) the "free feeling". That's because the freedom has a good feeling built into it. It doesn't need the extra of a story to feel good.
- Would you mind rephrasing this please Vince? I am not undertanding this with the heart:)This is a big one.
Can you see that the 'self' is the "plus"?
Although it is more than that. It is the armour against the 'minus'. That is, that it is built of stories whose purpose is to divert us away from unpleasant feelings.
Now mostly it is so successful that we aren't even aware of that discomfort.
- Affirmative!So, to summarise, can you see that the 'self' is built entirely of stories.
Thank you
Coenraad
-
vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hi Coenraad, Can you see that the 'self' is the "plus"?
Can you also see It is the armour against the 'minus'?
What I mean by this is that the collection of stories, the response to which make up the illusion of Self, originally developed as a way to avoid unpleasant feelings. I don't want you just to believe what I say. I need you to observe yourself in the situation where unpleasant feelings get triggered and see that you then instigate one of those stories about Coenraad. It's the response to that story that takes you away from the discomfort.
The usual way this happens would be that you would blame something external for the discomfort (that may not even be noticed) or you would get busy either mentally or physically. Either way it's not the actual story that we're talking about but your response to it that achieves the distraction.
So in this case, we're not talking about the 'plus' the ego enhancement of the Self, but rather than 'minus' as in avoiding unpleasantness.
Just observe, and wait for a real life situation that triggers you, then watch this process unfold.
with love
vince
Can you also see It is the armour against the 'minus'?
What I mean by this is that the collection of stories, the response to which make up the illusion of Self, originally developed as a way to avoid unpleasant feelings. I don't want you just to believe what I say. I need you to observe yourself in the situation where unpleasant feelings get triggered and see that you then instigate one of those stories about Coenraad. It's the response to that story that takes you away from the discomfort.
The usual way this happens would be that you would blame something external for the discomfort (that may not even be noticed) or you would get busy either mentally or physically. Either way it's not the actual story that we're talking about but your response to it that achieves the distraction.
So in this case, we're not talking about the 'plus' the ego enhancement of the Self, but rather than 'minus' as in avoiding unpleasantness.
Just observe, and wait for a real life situation that triggers you, then watch this process unfold.
with love
vince
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hello Vince,
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your guidance and time Vince.
Much love and appreciation
Coenraad
- Yes! Thank you! It almost feels a bit cheeky to tempt/invite/obesrve these sitations and thoughts so freely and with no fear or judgment:) And I see the incredible authority it claimed to have over me, and how it germinated.Just observe, and wait for a real life situation that triggers you, then watch this process unfold.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your guidance and time Vince.
Much love and appreciation
Coenraad
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vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
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Re: I am ready for guidance
Hi Coenraad, here are some checkpoint questions, to see where we need to go next..
Answer from your current experience. Be a bit concise.
Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
Is there an actual past or future?
How do you relate to your thoughts?
How do you relate to your emotions?
Has your relationship to other people changed?
How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
what is your relationship to life?
Are there doubts about the non-existence of an actual independent self, running the show? if so please describe them.
If you are not the separate self who/what are you?
Thoughts, concerns, comments ?
with love
vince
Answer from your current experience. Be a bit concise.
Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
Is there an actual past or future?
How do you relate to your thoughts?
How do you relate to your emotions?
Has your relationship to other people changed?
How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
what is your relationship to life?
Are there doubts about the non-existence of an actual independent self, running the show? if so please describe them.
If you are not the separate self who/what are you?
Thoughts, concerns, comments ?
with love
vince
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hello Vince,
-Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
-Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
-Is there an actual past or future?
-How do you relate to your thoughts?
-How do you relate to your emotions?
-Has your relationship to other people changed?
-How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
-what is your relationship to life?
-Are there doubts about the non-existence of an actual independent self, running the show? if so please describe them.
-If you are not the separate self who/what are you?
-
vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hello Vince,
Something feels different but yet the same. I think more time and experiences will tell but currently I am believe I could be in a honeymoon phase. I have had many honeymoon experiences and they all ended, some came crashing down. So I am in that bit of a unsure place sometimes as to what and how things will unfold forward, but I also feel okay with that things will just be.
Thank you,
Coenraad
- Right now and for the last week, something kind of opened up and I can see that a charachter was/is playing out a "role". I have seen this before but the perception of how I see it now has shifted a bit, like a energy field around/in me is witnessing this dude that is in this game (It's almost like a mental video game characher that I envision in my mind that is being watched, not played). And if I think about it this way, it does make sense in the heart too. This "role" was developed and inspired by a motion of circumstances and some of them had choices. As for who exactly followed through with these choices; like Coenraad deciding to get sober, a million things and events then happen in between (plus alot of self created/observed hell/suffering), and now I am typing these words 6 years later because of that "decision', so who made this choice? I dont believe it was an independent self, there IS something higher at play here. Who made that decision then and who is typing now? It's that same Coenraad character in the same river. No, I dont think an inherently independent self, other than what was mind or charachter conditioning based, exists, anymore.Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
- Currently I feel that there might be a movement in and out of this feeling or belief that there is an independant self. Yes, yes, yes, I get it!!! Then wait, what am I on about??? Where did it go??? I see how the mind wants to pull me out of it and if I resist the dance with it, I give it more access to do so. I had moments during psychedelic experiences where, I would say, the independent self fell away completely from my direct expeience, then and for those moments there was no self, just everything that is. So it cannot exist if I have "lost" it before. Where did it go?Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
- No. We only have vehicles like memory, imagination, experience and calendars to point there but there is no actual anything other than now.Is there an actual past or future?
- I am not so personally attached to them anymore. I see them for what they are, just thoughts, mostly with no substance at all. I see how thoughts come and go.How do you relate to your thoughts?
- Somewhere between cold and okay. Cold meaning that I feel less attached when I witness the progression or source of my emotions, it kind of takes the shock value out of dramatic emotions and dissapear when I am not related or identified to them. Okay meaning that I find it easier and more natural to be accepting completely the current emotion felt.How do you relate to your emotions?
- Almost completely. Yes. There was a collection of shifts on my "path" over the course of 20 months. I feel more real and connected with the people that have remained in my life. I can also see how many people could think I have turned into a complete nut job, and I am okay with that too. I also see that when I see other people as beings, same as me, then I feel quite different in sense that I have more compassion and understanding that they are also just stuck in identifying with the mind.Has your relationship to other people changed?
- Traditionally I used to explode or run away. Currently I am about 2 weeks explosion free.How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
- Now I am enjoying to just flow with it and face it head on. I know I might be sounding over positive here but I genuinely dont take life so serious like just a short time ago.what is your relationship to life?
- They do arrise yes. I sometimes doubt how long this current state of peace will last? I sometimes wonder what the next big thing or shock will be for me and how will I process it? I wonder why I just had the last thought? I ask if I might just be imagining things? I ask if I am worthy? Am I doing this right? Am I bullshitting myself by saying that life is suddenly breezy now that my circumstances have changed for the better? And, is/should there more to what I am curently experiencing?Are there doubts about the non-existence of an actual independent self, running the show? if so please describe them.
- I believe I am a soul/being navigating/experiencing life in this body. I believe we all are.If you are not the separate self who/what are you?
Thoughts, concerns, comments ?
Something feels different but yet the same. I think more time and experiences will tell but currently I am believe I could be in a honeymoon phase. I have had many honeymoon experiences and they all ended, some came crashing down. So I am in that bit of a unsure place sometimes as to what and how things will unfold forward, but I also feel okay with that things will just be.
Thank you,
Coenraad
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vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hi Coenraad, l love your answers.
The only one that creates dissatisfaction here is this one..
How can you know this?
Please answer it again from actual experience.
much love
vince
The only one that creates dissatisfaction here is this one..
That shouts out to me that it is a story.If you are not the separate self who/what are you?- I believe I am a soul/being navigating/experiencing life in this body. I believe we all are.
How can you know this?
Please answer it again from actual experience.
much love
vince
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hey Vince,
How do I unconditionally know who and what I am, from the heart?
Thank you,
Coenraad
- Yes, I see that it is just another story:)That shouts out to me that it is a story.
- I dont know if and how and I can actually "know" what/who I am, apart from that I am not my thoughts. I feel that I am "that something" or that there is "this something" that is aware of experiences, thoughts and feelings. Right now, "that something" is the space/state where I can "go to" or "be in" in, free from the mind. But I almost have to purposely go there or be aware that I am aware. So, I know there is this witnessing of thoughts happening, I am pretty sure of that because I can catch/investigate/witness a thought. So who or what is catching these thoughts? I can try to give it names like my subconscious, hard drive, soul, God, or nature.How can you know this?
How do I unconditionally know who and what I am, from the heart?
Thank you,
Coenraad
-
vinceschubert
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:02 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I am ready for guidance
Hi Coenraad, Yes—this is the final knot the mind tries to tie:
**"Who or what is aware?"**
Right now, instead of answering, **look directly.**
- **Can you actually find "something" that is aware?**
- **Is there really a witness, or just witnessing happening?**
You say you have to "go to" this space, as if there is a transition. But **from where to where?** Isn't awareness already here, effortlessly, before any thought arises?
And this “something” that catches thoughts—does it have a shape, a location, a boundary? Or is it only the mind trying to make a *thing* out of what has no form?
Right now, without naming it, without reaching for an answer—
**What is aware of this moment?**
Not as a thought. **Look.**
Don't give me an answer. Tell me what you find (or don't find) as you look.
vince
**"Who or what is aware?"**
Right now, instead of answering, **look directly.**
- **Can you actually find "something" that is aware?**
- **Is there really a witness, or just witnessing happening?**
You say you have to "go to" this space, as if there is a transition. But **from where to where?** Isn't awareness already here, effortlessly, before any thought arises?
And this “something” that catches thoughts—does it have a shape, a location, a boundary? Or is it only the mind trying to make a *thing* out of what has no form?
Right now, without naming it, without reaching for an answer—
**What is aware of this moment?**
Not as a thought. **Look.**
Don't give me an answer. Tell me what you find (or don't find) as you look.
vince
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