Want to be done with this process

[Sonofnature]

Hi Alexey.

I am sorry that you felt that you picked up some frustration from me. I don't think I was, but I have tried a rather firm approach to "slap" some sense into you. 😅 Having said that, I am not beyond frustration, it happens, but it doesn't stick around for very long like it used to.

I will respond to your question about seeking and, hopefully, the need to address the other stuff will resolve themselves as they derive from this very issue. If not, we can come back to that.

No one can tell you with certainty what seeking truly is. Any answer is, at best, a perspective shaped by one's own conditioning and experience.

What seems clear here is that seeking begins as a natural movement. The mind-body system is wired to learn, adapt, and survive, making us highly susceptible to conditioning. But beyond this functional seeking, a deeper layer of seeking emerges. The search for certainty in an uncertain world.

All humans are born into a reality where nothing is fixed, yet we are biologically wired to seek stability and security. This creates an inherent contradiction: the need for stability clashes with the reality of constant change. The mind, trying to protect this organism, resists uncertainty, and in doing so, creates the feeling that something is missing.

This is the root of suffering. Not because something is actually missing, but because the mind assumes it is. Seeking arises not as a response to true lack, but as a response to a misperception of lack. Rather than directly investigating this discomfort, the mind externalizes the search.

Also, another thing I see at the core of seeking is often the refusal to face the full weight of our aloneness.

Not in the sense of social isolation, but in the deeper existential sense. The recognition that there is no external authority to confirm us, no ultimate hand to hold, no separate "other" that can give us lasting security.

We look to teachers, practices, self-improvement, religion, spirituality or anything that seems to promise an answer. We are drawn to those who radiate confidence, assuming they have found what we lack. But this search is built on a misunderstanding: the belief that what we seek is elsewhere rather than already fully present.

Sometimes, distractions like food, sex, shopping, or entertainment temporarily cover up the discomfort. Other times, achieving goals or engaging in spiritual practices provides brief relief. But the cycle continues. A new goal emerges, a new promising idea, and the chase begins again.

What most never realize is that the only resolution to this underlying discomfort is to stop resisting life as it is. Seeking persists because the mind assumes it should be in control, that it should be able to secure something stable. But when it is seen that no such control has ever existed, the tension naturally dissolves.

And yet, here’s the paradox: the separate self that would "let go" or "end seeking" does not exist.
No one is in control of when seeking stops. Seeking does not end because one decides to drop it; it ends when it is seen that there was never anything to resolve in the first place. The assumption that something is missing was an illusion all along.

This shift does not come through effort or accumulation of insights, like puzzle pieces falling into place. It comes through seeing, that there was never a puzzle to begin with. The search for a final resolution collapses when it is recognized that there is nothing outside of this.

Seeking is simply what happens until it doesn’t. It is neither right nor wrong. It does not need to be dropped, fixed, or resolved. Only seen for what it is.

[NoSuchThing2]

So you would agree with me that I can't just stop seeking? It's something completely outside of my control. It feels like a fucken virus.

With control and self we venture unto strange territory because there is a non-separate self, maybe a separate self and no-self. There isn't any control about which is experienced. Same with free-will, at times it's clear it never existed, at times it seems like some choice is possible, and at other times it's completely unclear. This too is not up for control which is experienced. The experience can't be stopped.

I wrote that message last night from the experience of having hit an emotional concrete wall with my face. Someone could say it's all feeling and thoughts, and that's nice, but it's reductionistic and callous. The human life is just an experience, and the varying capacity to relate to that experience of others.

Are you able to comment on the other sections I brought up? No need comment on specific names, but I did want to bring up some factual things that happened that are deeply unresolved.

People have a tremendous capacity to pretend and look amazing pretending, and maybe even forget for a while they are exuding unto the world what they want to experience inside.

The things I wrote about have a deep unresolved personal meaning to me. They don't make sense. This my perspective from this state, and this state will almost certainly shift to an infinite array of states and perspectives.

I brought up Heaven's Gate because I suspect I may have caught the same virus of delusion they have, with my own certain flavor or twist. It think it would be impossible to know from the inside, other than that somethings around are just not adding up. If this is the case, then there is some hope for me to resolve this thru direct volition. I'd assume this would be akin to scientology type of brainwashing where it takes a person some considerable time to understand dialectics and other types of practices are just pure delusion.

I'd need some time to come to grips with years of naivety, and me being susceptible to this type of hocus pocus and to re-focus my life around my weird programming.

What most never realize is that the only resolution to this underlying discomfort is to stop resisting life as it is. Seeking persists because the mind assumes it should be in control, that it should be able to secure something stable. But when it is seen that no such control has ever existed, the tension naturally dissolves.

This is what I have believed for many years, but I am doubting this belief. If it's a specific type of crazy, it will never resolve itself as it's all looney world business.

What most never realize is that the only resolution to this underlying discomfort is to stop resisting life as it is

But this has an underlying component to that it's even possible to stop resisting. Resisting is just a show too. It's just an experience of resisting.

the belief that what we seek is elsewhere rather than already fully present.

This too cannot happen until awareness has the capacity for it.

I don't want to keep experiencing my life in a half baked half fucked up (maybe completely fucked up) way. It's just awful. It's better just being blind and having a goal to immerse yourself into, and that's what I tried with poker. But it doesn't work because it's not happening naturally as it did with other life experiences that arose about out of need not a particular want.

The fucked up thing is, even if you told me, "I know what you are experiencing, I felt this way too" I'm not even sure I'd be able to sustain the capacity to believe you. Belief and disbelief is not up to me. Doubt will creep up into my being, and I will start doubting that perhaps you just imagined it all because you wanted to believe it so badly, as I've seen some do.

This whole thing is quite the pickle. It's cool to be able to discuss it openly here as I feel like I'm performing my own brain surgery; I can't get into these types details with others around me. I'd like to think I appear normal, polite and friendly with others, perhaps a bit wayward with the things I've done in my life.

I think you said you've been doing some writing lately? Your writing style is very clean, well developed, and easy on the eyes. Nice job! Do you spend time reviewing and editing what you write, or is this free-flow for you?

[NoSuchThing2]

This is the link to join the zoom meetings:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Could you please confirm this Marius?

It says it's a meeting scheduled for Jun 5th, 2022 at 17:00.

[Sonofnature]

Hey man.

It starts in 12 minutes. 😊

Have fun!

[NoSuchThing2]

Thanks!

Just wanted to make sure I have the right login info.

[NoSuchThing2]

Thanks for introducing me to Vince! He's came across as very loving, open-hearted person and deeply humble. I felt quite comfy interacting with him.

I'll do my best to attend at least a 1-2 of his weekly meetings now.

[Sonofnature]

Hey Alexey!

Yes, Vince is a total sweetheart and I feel blessed to have crossed his path.😊

Happy to hear that you got something out of the meeting. The sense of community and listening to others share their experiences can often be a powerful way to realize that we all go through somewhat different variations of the same things. Sometimes, to hear it from different perspectives, may unlock new perspectives in our own experience.

So you would agree with me that I can't just stop seeking? It's something completely outside of my control. It feels like a fucken virus.

Yes, you can’t just stop seeking, because there is no “you” controlling your experience. There are only thoughts centered around a sense of self, creating the impression of control.

And yes, being stuck in seeking is deeply painful. I completely agree. I suffered intensely as a seeker for over 15 years until it burned this mind-body out completely, leaving me unable to function for over a year. So when I point out that seeking for something other than what is NOW is the real problem, I’m not saying this as something you should try to change or control. I say it because, at some point, something might click. That’s all.

So let's get back to your questions.

What most never realize is that the only resolution to this underlying discomfort is to stop resisting life as it is. Seeking persists because the mind assumes it should be in control, that it should be able to secure something stable. But when it is seen that no such control has ever existed, the tension naturally dissolves.
This is what I have believed for many years, but I am doubting this belief. If it's a specific type of crazy, it will never resolve itself as it's all looney world business.

I didn't quite catch this one.

]

What most never realize is that the only resolution to this underlying discomfort is to stop resisting life as it is.

But this has an underlying component to that it's even possible to stop resisting. Resisting is just a show too. It's just an experience of resisting. the belief that what we seek is elsewhere rather than already fully present.

Yes, what you’re saying is aligned with my experience. You don’t have control over resisting or not resisting. If resistance is happening, then that’s simply what’s happening.

However, through a conversation like this, something else can also happen: awareness of the resistance itself. By seeing that resistance is what stands in the way of peace, we may start noticing it as it arises. A thought may follow, reminding us of this, and in that moment, a letting go can happen. Not permanently, but for a while. And this is how new conditioning begins.

For more than a decade I thought that my "seeking" is driven by an underlying reality "to know", "experience directly", and also by discontent and suffering. There is a belief that I can experientially experience complete reality, peace and contentment. There is/was also a belief that the suffering I was experiencing was a testament that full reality was not known to me and that a certain "cessation" would be directly experienced, that I would have no shadow of a doubt about. This cessation has taken on various terms "irreversible shift in perspective" "awakening" "enlightenment"...etc (the word doesn't really matter). Seeking and various forms of suffering have almost become badges, although I never really used the word seeking but rather yearning.

If yearning/seeking is indeed driven by reality wanting to experience itself in the fullest, then how can it be stopped artificially? However, if seeking is driven by complete delusion, such as looking for pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, then it can indeed be stopped artificially, tho it may take some time to bring that person back to reality.

I know you may be thinking...grrr, this guy is doubting again...

What is seeking, really? Is it something inherent to reality itself, or is it simply thoughts and feelings creating the impression that something is missing?

Right now, in direct experience, what is actually lacking?

The belief that a final “cessation” must happen is what keeps the seeking mechanism alive. But have you noticed that every expectation about what “the end” should look like is just another thought? What if seeking itself is the only thing creating the illusion that something is incomplete?

If seeking were an intrinsic movement of reality itself, it wouldn’t be possible for anyone to ever stop seeking. But many do. Not because they forced it to stop artificially, but because they saw through the assumption that something was missing.

So instead of asking whether seeking is driven by reality or delusion, can we ask: What is seeking in this very moment? Can you find it as anything more than thoughts and sensations appearing now? If you stop feeding the belief that something is missing, would seeking remain?

Enter human drives:

Then we have normal human biological desires such as sex, entertainment, joy...etc, that are non-existential in nature. And it gets a little bit funny as I recall some Angelo video where he talks about being honest with your desire (do you want to know truth more than anything, or do you want some hot spiritual chicks (he didn't actually use that reference, he said relationship, but it was obvious what he was getting at).

Here another conundrum of desire vs belief that arises that people don't want to discuss. If a guy really wanting to know Truth is an a room with lots of gorgeous, fit, seemingly wholesome girls wearing provocative clothes, I think his desires and beliefs are going to get crossed. He may experience some guilt for being confused about what he wants at the moment, and his guilt may be exacerbated if he's told he's being too honest with his biology, he doesn't want truth enough, or that he's not being real enough with his biological desires and avoiding the "true" reality.

I’m not sure which angle you want me to take here, but what comes up first is this: engaging in hypothetical ifs and buts like this is pure mental masturbation, it just distracts from directly experiencing the present moment. If I were your Zen teacher right now, I’d smack you over the head and ask, What is mu? 😅

Ideally, the guy in this scenario would recognize that “should” and “shouldn’t” are just more programming. Judging himself for experiencing desire makes no sense, though if judgment arises, hopefully, he wouldn’t judge his judgment either.

Also, I fail to see how desire for these women would interfere with “truth.” Truth is only found in direct experience, not in some imagined conflict between desire and awakening. If he stays present with his actual experience, without getting lost in fantasies, there’s no problem.

The real key here is awareness. If he can notice his biological programming as it unfolds, recognizing the sensations and thoughts without automatically reacting, he stays aligned with both his biological nature and his deeper search for truth. No suppression, no avoidance, just clarity.

Enter the Mind, Attention and Now:

The mind seems to always want to project into the future or past, to want judge, comment or criticize and to dominate attention. It appears that some people live only in their mind. They are listening to fake world events, arguing with their thoughts, getting angry at their own internal arguments and then dishing out that anger unto people who they think are privy to their thoughts somehow. I think it would be incorrect to say that those people aren't living in the Now. Everything is only in the Now, but they are living in ideas, thoughts, and images of things that don't exist. Not in the Now of what is actually here as is. Just want to make this distinction. This mind and Now are kind of intermixed with a sense of self and reality.

The mind is also insatiable with thinking that something else is better than Now. Does this end? Or this a common feature of everyone's existence that you know of personally? People for some reason get insecure about discussing the thoughts they experience and how it shapes their internal world and spills over to their external way of living life.

In my experience, thoughts about something “better than now” still arise, but my attention rarely fixates on them. Thoughts simply aren’t as interesting as they used to be, and because of this, they tend to fade into the background.

If fixation does happen, it’s usually recognized within seconds, mainly because it feels uncomfortable. When this happens, a thought often follows that recognizes what’s going on, and with that recognition, the fixation dissolves on its own.

Various forms of Delusion Enter:

Spiritual delusion ala Heaven's Gate type. You've probably seen the documentary. A guru convinced a bunch of disillusioned people that Haley's Bop comet was an alien space ship, waiting to take their astral bodies to some other ephemeral realm. They all committed mass suicide. In their "exit interviews" they seemed perfectly happy and excited about their next manifestation in their spiritual progress.

Some awakening people want awakening ideas so badly they disassociate from reality. Tho I haven't explored this topic too much, I know derealization is a thing, and some have become mentally looney. I only learned of Jeff Foster recently, but he had an interesting take on quitting non-duality. He wasn't able to awaken (whatever meaning he was applying) and decided to focus on healing his human self and his human needs. He briefly talks about how most popular awakened teachers he visited are somewhat disingenuous about their human condition when it comes to suffering and being callous to other humans. I contacted someone else with a similar case, and he's come to terms that "awakening" doesn't seem to be happening for him, and he's deathly exhausted of the seeking and torture he's put himself thru over the years. Tho he still mediates at the end of the day (not sure what this is about).

An "awakening experience" thru mystic state or psychedelic trip. I found few people whose life was changed after a psychedelic trip to the point they thought they were "spiritual". They started eating more healthy obsessively, caring for environment, something about raised consciousness, being reclusive, disillusioned with society, and generally unhappy, but all were certain that this was part of their "spiritual journey".

If I were to generalize, I’d say I used to be part of a similar crowd. My understanding of spirituality was heavily shaped by mystical experiences and psychedelic trips. I developed what I’d now call a “spiritual ego”, and, ironically, I’d look at others with spiritual egos and judge them for it, completely blind to my own.

One “positive” result of this phase was that I adopted healthier habits, my level of awareness expanded to some degree, and I was somewhat happier than when I was fully identified with the stories of Marius. But my understanding of awakening and liberation was completely delusional. I had mistaken certain experiences and lifestyle changes for something deeper, when in reality, I was just living out a more refined identity rather than seeing through the illusion of self altogether.

I’d also add that the new-age spiritual community I was loosely involved with, functions as a kind of echo chamber. When a group of people shares the same delusion and reinforces each other’s beliefs, it can seriously distort reality. I can see how that kind of environment could wreak havoc on mental health, especially for those who are already vulnerable.

Conundrums:

The seeking conundrum as I first presented it.
What about seekers who never find after 30, 40, 50 years of dedicated efforts? Are the lazy, not worthy, karmically not destined, unknown? Shouldn't it be somewhat prudent to tell these people to try to live somewhat fulfilled lives with loving partners and things they derive some other joy from, to forget about it? It's usually awakening at all costs for most people, until you either realize or you die.

Seeking methodologies: Reading (indirect), meditation (direct) and self inquiry (direct), and the fuck it methodology of not caring. If no methodology is effective, then it's just another belief that any particular one is better than the other.

This part doesn’t really make sense to me because we’re not in control of what we do, so telling a seeker of 50 years to stop seeking would be pointless. If seeking drops, it drops. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

Look at it this way: if someone isn’t seeking liberation, they’re either seeking something else. Material pleasure, distraction, or ways to escape discomfort, or they’re already liberated. The mind is always chasing something. The question isn’t whether someone should or shouldn’t seek, but rather: can they see seeking for what it is?

As for methodologies. Reading, meditation, self-inquiry, or just saying fuck it, they’re all just different ways the mind engages with the process. If none are effective, then clinging to any particular one as “the right way” is just another belief.

This is what came up for me now, hopefully, it helps clear up some of the confusion you're experiencing.

Also, let’s keep future posts a bit shorter. My brain is no longer too keen on overly intellectual deep dives… 😅

[NoSuchThing2]

Thanks for your reply Marius, love ya bud!

I'll try to be more concise.

I say it because, at some point, something might click. That’s all.

I hope something clicks at some point.

Now has taken many shapes since we started. Almost every waking hour I'm nibbling on "What is here NOW, that's not a thought", or "Now!" [when I find myself lost in thoughts, or too many thoughts coming]. If it's conditioned behavior to go into thoughts, then with some intensive weeks or months of practice I can (awareness can, or whatever the fuck can) get better at not drifting off there. I'm willing to believe this conditioning hypothesis for now.

If it's a specific type of crazy, it will never resolve itself as it's all looney world business.

No commentary needed.

A thought may follow, reminding us of this, and in that moment, a letting go can happen. Not permanently, but for a while. And this is how new conditioning begins.

If fixation does happen, it’s usually recognized within seconds, mainly because it feels uncomfortable. When this happens, a thought often follows that recognizes what’s going on, and with that recognition, the fixation dissolves on its own.

This is what I'm working on with thoughts and Now. The mechanism of recognition is how I experience it too, with a tiny release before some other thoughts try to get my attention. I hope in time I can reduce the conditioning to go to thought, for now my attention gets dragged into thoughts for many seconds without noticing.

Doing this all day with some focus is tiring tho, and I got a bit burnt out from the intensity with which I was engaging. I have tendency to engage in things very deeply until I burn out. Have done this with basically everything in my life, big and little.

Right now, in direct experience, what is actually lacking?

I need more time to process this question. It's not a simple question.

The belief that a final “cessation” must happen is what keeps the seeking mechanism alive.

Yes! This is a big one. I hear you, but I can't fucken see it. And I so dearly believe this. I believe that it will just pop into a massive relaxed cessation from some shift in perspective about self, and then the seeking will stop.

You are telling me, No! "Keep coming back to the Now when you get this urge, until you see this seeking mechanism thru" [loosely paraphrasing you].

But have you noticed that every expectation about what “the end” should look like is just another thought?

You've done a great job helping me here. Everything I thought/imagined is bullshit. I don't know what more I can do tho, I'm giving it everything I have in every way possible!

What if seeking itself is the only thing creating the illusion that something is incomplete?

What do I do with this if I don't have control over the seeking?

I suffered intensely as a seeker for over 15 years until it burned this mind-body out completely, leaving me unable to function for over a year.

So you are telling me I haven't been a strong and dedicated enough seeker, and haven't injured myself enough in the process? 😅 Very dangerous thing to say to me, lol.

[NoSuchThing2]

I suffered intensely as a seeker for over 15 years until it burned this mind-body out completely, leaving me unable to function for over a year.

Do want to mention that upon reading this I felt some future-ish promise, and I have to tell myself, No M'fer, this is just a thought, no relief here!!! Just a fucken thought! Now!!! Stay in now until the belief energy of the thought settles.

That's what I'm practicing now.

[Sonofnature]

Hey Alexey!

It was great to see you join the group meeting yesterday and to hear you tap into emotions you haven’t had access to in a long time. This is great stuff. 😊

Now has taken many shapes since we started. Almost every waking hour I'm nibbling on "What is here NOW, that's not a thought", or "Now!" [when I find myself lost in thoughts, or too many thoughts coming]. If it's conditioned behavior to go into thoughts, then with some intensive weeks or months of practice I can (awareness can, or whatever the fuck can) get better at not drifting off there. I'm willing to believe this conditioning hypothesis for now.

This is what I'm working on with thoughts and Now. The mechanism of recognition is how I experience it too, with a tiny release before some other thoughts try to get my attention. I hope in time I can reduce the conditioning to go to thought, for now my attention gets dragged into thoughts for many seconds without noticing.

Doing this all day with some focus is tiring tho, and I got a bit burnt out from the intensity with which I was engaging. I have tendency to engage in things very deeply until I burn out. Have done this with basically everything in my life, big and little.

Can you see that there is no one doing this? That there is no one practicing, but that there are thoughts about some story and then thoughts that follow about remembering to go back to direct experience?

That there was some point in your life where your conditioning fixated attention in stories and that there has now been a change in your conditioning that has added a line of thought that takes attention into direct experience?

Yes! This is a big one. I hear you, but I can't fucken see it. And I so dearly believe this. I believe that it will just pop into a massive relaxed cessation from some shift in perspective about self, and then the seeking will stop.

You are telling me, No! "Keep coming back to the Now when you get this urge, until you see this seeking mechanism thru" [loosely paraphrasing you].

Well, yes and no. Yes, in hope that one day the futility of seeking will be seen and something will click, and no in that there is no one in control of the doing of that.

You've done a great job helping me here. Everything I thought/imagined is bullshit. I don't know what more I can do tho, I'm giving it everything I have in every way possible!

What do I do with this if I don't have control over the seeking?

You have “done” everything in every way possible, except not doing anything. :D

So you are telling me I haven't been a strong and dedicated enough seeker, and haven't injured myself enough in the process? 😅 Very dangerous thing to say to me, lol.

Lol :D That is definitely not recommended and not necessary. Having said that, if that is what happens, that is what happens.

Do want to mention that upon reading this I felt some future-ish promise, and I have to tell myself, No M'fer, this is just a thought, no relief here!!! Just a fucken thought! Now!!! Stay in now until the belief energy of the thought settles.

That's what I'm practicing now.

Relief is here now. Outside of thought. Waiting for you whenever you are ready to let go.

[NoSuchThing2]

It was great to see you join the group meeting yesterday and to hear you tap into emotions you haven’t had access to in a long time. This is great stuff. 😊

Thanks, the meeting I referred to has made me really timid about speaking and saying much. I feel that there is a bit of a group vibe that is sacred to people, and I want to be respectful of that.

That there is no one practicing, but that there are thoughts about some story and then thoughts that follow about remembering to go back to direct experience?

Yes! I can clearly see this. There is more being in the direct experience— that is what's happening. I'm (attention) more glued to that now.

That there was some point in your life where your conditioning fixated attention in stories and that there has now been a change in your conditioning that has added a line of thought that takes attention into direct experience?

Yes. It's what's happening, and at times it feels like I'm doing this, but it's like you said, another thought to remind me to go to direct experience. I'm not doing this, at least it doesn't feel like a "strong" me doing this.

I just sat during meeting today burning with self-refential thoughts, and thoughts that screamed "I know this stuff!", and on and on they went, with some pauses of back to direct experience that felt like I iniated them. That vulnerability I talked about before is blatant parts of "me" that are being shown to me (I think). The zoom meetings really expose parts of me that can't be seen alone, as contracted sensations don't arise like this alone.

Would you be okay with me booking one or two private sessions with Vince. I just wanna chat with him, and maybe share stuff I'm not sure is right to share before everyone is comfy with me? It'd be great to do the same with you, but I'm not sure if you just want to keep it written for now.

Everything you say deeply resonates with me, and I feel like I can connect with what you are saying, as you go right to the heart of the matter without too much dancing. Chatting here has really helped me with the Now thing, as it's where attention is basically all of the time.

Like I didn't feel comfortable sharing with group that my days are really tumultuous with sometimes extreme suffering, then tremendous peace the same day, or days apart. I feel like it's cozy zoom atmosphere, and I can get into the darker side of things quickly. It can also be that I'm in my head thinking about this too much.

[Sonofnature]

Thanks, the meeting I referred to has made me really timid about speaking and saying much. I feel that there is a bit of a group vibe that is sacred to people, and I want to be respectful of that.

Though I completely understand the reaction to this experience, I want to make it crystal clear that it's not like this at our meetings. The group vibe you pick up on in our meetings is a result of people daring to be authentic and share whatever it is that we experience. We share our darkness and our light, and it is only through this authentic sharing that this group vibe can come to life. It is a direct result of facing that fear of being vulnerable that allows people to really connect. So I invite you to share whatever it is that is going on with you so that it can come into the light of awareness and you can experience the power of feeling the support of a group of authentic human beings.

I just sat during meeting today burning with self-refential thoughts, and thoughts that screamed "I know this stuff!", and on and on they went, with some pauses of back to direct experience that felt like I iniated them. That vulnerability I talked about before is blatant parts of "me" that are being shown to me (I think). The zoom meetings really expose parts of me that can't be seen alone, as contracted sensations don't arise like this alone.

It's beautiful that you are recognising that movement of thoughts between self-referantial narrative to DE. This is the way! And what you say about the vulnerability you are tapping into is exactly what I am talking about in the response above. Being vulnerable in a safe space is a really power way of healing and loosening the contraction that often holds us back from expressing ourselves freely. I used to facilitate men's circles and if it's one major thing I took away from that part of my life is how powerful the medicine of being vulnerable with safe and authentic people.

Would you be okay with me booking one or two private sessions with Vince. I just wanna chat with him, and maybe share stuff I'm not sure is right to share before everyone is comfy with me? It'd be great to do the same with you, but I'm not sure if you just want to keep it written for now.

Of course! I support anything that feels intuitively in alignment with where life wants to take itself. 😊
But again, the thought about people not being comfy with you yet is just conditioning showing itself. The group wants to hear from you and connect with you but we know that it will happen in its own time as it does for everyone that comes through. Just ask yourself, doesn't it feel good to listen to people express authentically? I suspect the answer is a big YES! because most of us feel that way.

Everything you say deeply resonates with me, and I feel like I can connect with what you are saying, as you go right to the heart of the matter without too much dancing. Chatting here has really helped me with the Now thing, as it's where attention is basically all of the time.

I'm happy to hear that and I would also be open to video meetings if you feel drawn to that. 🙂

Like I didn't feel comfortable sharing with group that my days are really tumultuous with sometimes extreme suffering, then tremendous peace the same day, or days apart. I feel like it's cozy zoom atmosphere, and I can get into the darker side of things quickly. It can also be that I'm in my head thinking about this too much.

Yes, this is definitely only in your head. We share as much darkness as we share light and the brave souls that dare to open up about their darkness gets rewarded by life in the form of freedom from it. Let it flow freely, brother! It's all equally a part of life and the way to liberation.

[NoSuchThing2]

Though I completely understand the reaction to this experience, I want to make it crystal clear that it's not like this at our meetings. The group vibe you pick up on in our meetings is a result of people daring to be authentic and share whatever it is that we experience. We share our darkness and our light, and it is only through this authentic sharing that this group vibe can come to life. It is a direct result of facing that fear of being vulnerable that allows people to really connect. So I invite you to share whatever it is that is going on with you so that it can come into the light of awareness and you can experience the power of feeling the support of a group of authentic human beings.

Thanks Marius, it means a lot to hear this. I do truly feel the authenticity in that group. So much love pouring from everyone, that's why I was a little bit hesitant to disturb this in any way.

The topic of becoming that was brought up by someone in the last meeting was near and dear to me, as I have briefly touched upon it here. It's dreadfully heavy when you feel like a failure and are wrestling with being-something/someone. I wanted to talk to add a little of personal story about that, but I left it off for another time.

I really do like interacting with people who are willing to be as authentic as they can be. It's very special for me. I'm drawn to these types of experiences.

I'm happy to hear that and I would also be open to video meetings if you feel drawn to that. 🙂

Thank you for offering this. I'll consider this.

Just wanted to briefly share how things have been developing on my end with the inquiry. No need for any feedback (unless you feel inclined), as the beauty of the inquiry is I keep doing it no matter what, doubt, joy or whatever else comes up.

I'm beginning to understand what you are saying about the Now and calm and peace. I didn't want to comment on this too much before. I've been chewing on the inquiry (it's kind of running on automatic) basically every waking hour and maybe in my sleep too. It keeps unfolding in so many layers. The only way to understand what I'm talking about is to do it (or have done it), as it's kind of like witchcraft. It teleports you to various degrees of Now (sorry for confusing language), gives you different glimpses of thoughts and your relationship to them, and keeps changing but being still, kind of like an anchor that in an ocean of thoughts that seek attention. It's something that needs to be munched on for each person.

During an inquiry today a really deep stillness and deathly peace came about for a few hours. It remembered your story about shimmering still waters, and was wondering if you or anyone actually experiences life from this kind of stillness. I also recalled your question "what is wrong with Now" and from that place the experience of Now was so complete it can't be described. Not a single fiber of being stirred. Pure contentment of ineffable fullness. My Now of right now is calm and kind of complete in an ordinary way without any strong seeking or doing energy, but not like what I described.

The inquiry will go on! 😊

[Sonofnature]

Hey Alexey!

Based on your last post and from listening to your sharing in Vince's meetings, I think it would be a great time to give you some checkpoint questions. Please take your time with these and respond from what you experience. Try not to intellectualize. :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look? Was there a moment of shift with a distinct before and after?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Consider and describe each if these separately.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

8) Anything to add?

[NoSuchThing2]

Marius,

Maybe we can take a quick zoom call before or after meeting today?

I don’t think I’ve seen the self thru as Alexey is not a fictional character as I feel Vince, you and Paul describe.

If I don’t actively (whatever that means) stay in Now the internal stories sweep me away into suffering and being someone (which I still feel at times).

There are me stories that I like and keep bringing up in public that’s tied to some trauma, or self.