Trying to see

[Anastacia42]

Yes, that is exactly it.

Now, let's bring some of this together and see about this pointer. If you've seen The Matrix, this is just like, "There is no spoon." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph02o6K2aoo


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Much love,

[Bovary56]

However, is an apple actually known?

When I looked at a picture of the apple, I saw its colors, and I had thoughts about an apple, what an apple is, what one does with it, what it’s like to eat it, what it would feel like to hold it. These thoughts aren’t any other experience besides thought, even though they are thoughts about other experiences (taste, touch). It follows then that what I might have called the experience of an apple is thought as well. Thoughts that came up as I looked at the apple served to construct the illusion of it. “Apples grow on trees” for example. But each one was still nothing more than a thought. So there isn’t anything we could call an experience of an apple. Just the aforementioned color, taste, sensation, thought, and smell. The illusion is found when I label all of these experiences as an apple.

[Anastacia42]

Exactly!

And "self?"

https://youtu.be/Ph02o6K2aoo?si=ifbkLpqwJPf5Hlst

Loving,

[Bovary56]

And "self?"

Self is the same. What I call myself is actually just thoughts that I label as self. Thoughts of who I am, the things that I do. It's also the same when I look in a mirror. When I look at my face, I say to myself "that's me", but in reality, that is just a thought and what I am looking at is just color.

[Anastacia42]

Great. That is what you *think* about it.

What do you See, Hear, and especially Feel?

We are looking for a shift in perception. It may be subtle.

Much love,

[Bovary56]

What do you See, Hear, and especially Feel?

I feel like there is a lack of meaning to things, but not in a negative, existential way. When I look at something, I feel like there is no longer this attachment there once was, just sight. Hearing is the same. When I have a conversation, there is listening, responding, enjoyment, but it's mostly just that. There is an effortlessness, a feeling that a weight has been lifted. Definitely subtle though. It is not a euphoric feeling, but I would certainly say there has been more enjoyment generally. There is more appreciation for things I appreciated before. The way I perceive things happening is different too. It feels like I no longer do things, rather, things are done. This change in perception is not dissociative however. I don’t feel like I am watching someone else do things. It’s sort of indescribable. There is a completeness and truth to it. I can see now how I could have never arrived at this point just thinking about it. It is completely perception.

[Anastacia42]

Yes. There you go. That's the kind of shift we're looking for. Yes. Things just happen.

Try this:


:Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Loving,

[Bovary56]

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

I can’t find anything that chose when the hand was going to flip over, nor which hand I ended up choosing. It felt like it was me, at first. But the more I did it, I tried to separate the sensation of my hand flipping over and the label of it being my decision, as we practiced before. As I went on, it became clearer that the decision was being made, but there was no decision maker. The movement was not controlled by some unmistakably direct input, like the steering wheel of a car.

Does a thought control it?

Thoughts didn’t seem to have a direct effect on the movement either. As an exercise, I tried thinking “flip” in synchronicity with the flipping of the palm. Sure enough, it appeared that the thought was causing the flip of the palm. But I also found it just as easy to think “flip” without flipping the palm. I tried really hard to flip my palm with only my thoughts. I really wanted the thought to cause it to flip and focused my thinking intently. But, to no avail. The hand refused to flip. I was reminded of the many times I’ve been lying comfortably in bed after a night of poor sleep, desperately wanting to get out of it. I would think to myself, “get up!” over and over again, all the while remaining motionless. It’s no wonder now that that strategy never worked.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

So then it appears that the decision is simply made and the palm simply flips, in the absence of a decision maker. The thoughts were the same. At no point could I determine when and how I decided to think “flip”, it just happened. These decisions might come from somewhere, having a cause explainable in physical terms, but I was unable to find that cause in my own perception. I couldn’t find the controller.

So is control ultimately an illusion? An exercise in labeling certain thoughts and actions as uniquely me?

[Anastacia42]

Excellent and accurate observations.

So is control ultimately an illusion? An exercise in labeling certain thoughts and actions as uniquely me?

You tell me. ("You" tell "me.") :)

"Free Will" by Sam Harris goes into this very scientifically.

One of my teachers was fond of saying something like, "When I can prevent having a bad hair day, check back with me." He has that characteristically kinky fly away hair that many Jewish people have. Bad hair days are somewhat his norm.

How does it FEEL to see that you had no control?

Loving,

[Bovary56]

How does it FEEL to see that you had no control?

It certainly doesn’t feel bad. In fact it actually feels quite good. Seeing it doesn’t feel existential or morbid at all, as the thought of it has in the past for me. It’s kind of a relief in a way. Liberating perhaps? So much time and energy was spent concerned with things that weren’t even there. Now things are just going. Very light and breezy.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

Do you remember the truth/lie feeling pointer?

Check... does it feel like truth or lie that you had no control & didn't choose?

Can you find any separate self anywhere?

Can you say 100% that there is no separate self?

Loving,

[Bovary56]

Can you say 100% that there is no separate self?

I can say without a doubt that there is no control, nor a separate self. It feels true and easy to say in thought and out loud.

[Anastacia42]

Excellent.

How does it FEEL to see this? Is anything different?


Loving,

[Bovary56]

How does it FEEL to see this? Is anything different?

There has certainly been a change in perception, as I described before. To see this shift in perception, as it happened gradually throughout our correspondence, was a good feeling. As I arrived at the point where I could say with full confidence I could see no-self, there was this feeling equivalent to taking off a heavy pack after a long day of hiking. There was also this perpetual feeling of warmth and energy in the chest. Things felt much easier to do and appeared to do themselves. Thoughts of worry, anger, resentment, etc., when they came up, seemed to melt away as quickly as they appeared. Unfortunately, circumstances arrived to break up this sense of peace. I was hit by that giant snow storm over the weekend and had to spend much of the day yesterday shoveling snow while also being sick with a cold, which was not an ideal combination. While this is not the worst thing I’ve had to endure, it was the first time there were noticeably bad feelings since seeing that there was no separate self, ones that were sustained throughout a good chunk of the day.

As I was shoveling the snow, the physical discomfort of the cold, the sickness, and the labor seemed to bring up old negative feelings in the form of resentment towards others. It became clear in that moment that seeing no self was not going to miraculously rid me of all problems, pains, and discomforts. I had not expected it to, but the sudden onset of these swirling thoughts and physical ailments certainly took me by surprise. I do feel like the perception of these thoughts and sensations was different compared to times I have felt them before. I paid particularly close attention to the physical sensation of the resentment, the throbbing feeling in my chest and stomach. I looked at the thoughts themselves too, trying to let them pass rather than latching onto them and letting them fester. This helped somewhat at relieving the negative emotions that came up, although it was not enough to keep them suppressed for good, as they continued to bother me throughout the day.

To summarize, many things feel the same. Sight, sought, taste, smell, and sensation are. for the most part, just as they were before. However, the perception has changed. Labels have fallen away. Things are no longer moored to this or that, “I” or “you”. They just are. This also has, so far, come with a sensation of warmth and weightlessness in the chest. But that feeling is still capable of being supplanted by different ones, as I have come to find out.

[Anastacia42]

That is beautiful. Yes, the minute we believe a lie, our sense of peace evaporates. I recommend The Work of Byron Katie to question those thoroughly. At a minimum, ask, "Is it true?"

We have some checkpoint questions for you to answer. Other guides will look at them and may have questions.

If you'd like to do those, here they are. Quote each question and reply underneath.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,