Direct experiencing

[Marly6]

Hello Rali,

Thank you for your feedback.

Yes I know this one. What I think it means is that in the beginning there is identification and “objects” like mountains and rivers are assumed to have their own existence. Then a realisation happens and it is seen that there are no “objects” with their own existence, that it is all one, but still viewed from a place of subtle identification (this is where I have been stuck). And at the end what remains is all the Direct experiencing and nothing else, no identification, just THIS.

Yeah :).

Halelujah :)

In the beginning objects are taken as really existing, then later it is seen that objects are just labels (empty of inherent existence), and at the end it’s going back to the market, where words are still used but just as tools for communication and their emptiness is known.

Yes

It is just colour (or actually it is just light as here in the Netherlands there is no colour in the winter, everything is gray now that the leaves have fallen).

Grey is still a colour (seeing) :)

Yes of course :)

I don’t know like I said, I don’t have memory of being that young so I cannot confirm in that way. But I was just thinking about this… does memory only happen when the mind can conceptualise things, and hence remember them in that way as concepts? If that is the case then I probably did not know anything in the sense of knowing as a concept.

What is a memory?

It is just the content of thought.

Past and memory go hand-in-hand as a memory thought (words or mental images) is believed to be referring to something that has happened in the past. Memory thoughts are also thoughts about a future that may or may not happen based on past experiences. A future thought is a thought that projects an idea about a future based on past memory. The majority of us ‘live’ in past or future, but when are those seeming memory thoughts actually taking place?

They are taking place now, the only "place" there is (its not really a place)

Sit quietly somewhere for 10 or so minutes and watch the arising thoughts. Notice the thoughts that contain content that refer to a past or future. Please don’t go to thought explanation, but just look at what the direct actual experience is.

Ok yes.

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’?

Memory is a thought, it is made of thought, thinking.

Is there any difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

No

WHEN does the memory actually appear?

Now

How is it known that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It is a belief.

Then, look at a thought about the future.

OK

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Its the same like any other thought, made of thought/thinking.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Now

Is there a difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

No

How is it known that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

This is a belief

Then let’s compare a thought about the past and a thought about the future.
What is the difference between the thoughts about past and future in actual experience?

No difference

If there is a difference, how is that difference known exactly?

Any difference is just more thought/beliefs.

Can a past or future be known?

No it doesn’t actually exist so it cannot be known/experienced.

Or all that is known are the AE of thoughts labelled as ‘memory’ that are appearing now?

Yes

In actual experience:-
Where is last week?

Last week is a label which is here NOW and it is actually just thought/thinking.

Where is yesterday?

Same as last week

Where is this morning?

Also same as any of these labels

Where is five minutes ago?

Nowhere to be found

Where is one minute ago?

Just a thought

Where is last night?

A label in thought

Where is midnight?

A concept in thought

Where is tomorrow morning?

An idea in thought

Where is next week?

it is just a concept/label

Where is next month?

same like the others

Can you find any of these? Or only ‘memory’ thoughts about these appearing now?

Yes this is clear, these are just concepts in thought labeled as memory/past or future

So if a memory is nothing but a generic thought, how can you know for sure that you have been a baby, that you had or had not experiences and that you were aware, OR that is an assumption?

Yes that is an assumption.

But awareness is not knowing as concept, it is just seeing/witnessing without holding on to anything.

Let’s play language as it seems that you can’t make the difference between language and direct experience.

Im struggling because I HAVE TO use language to communicate, and there is of course a habit of communicating in a certain way.

If there is no perceiver and nothing to be perceived, is there perceiving at all?

No I would have to say that the logical conclusion would be that there is no perceiving either.

If there is no awareness as an entity, and no-thing to be aware of, is there being aware/awareness at all? Awareness of nothing is an oxymoron, a play of language :)

Indeed awareness is not there as an entity, and being aware related to that entity is then also not there. Actually I wrote a whole story here to prove that its there, but then I was LOOKING NOW and I think that I see your point now. I don’t seem to be able to see “as the awareness” when LOOKING in NOW. Because “seeing as awareness” seems to be just mind trying to make a story of it - of “I am seeing THIS now”. But it cannot ever describe it, cause there is nothing there to describe. This is so weird I have to admit. There is nothing there, I am a bit shocked to be honest. There is just nothing…

To know something is merely to attach a word to it – even if it is just “witnessing” (you have to know what you are witnessing and that you are witnessing, witnessing is still a concept, and don't start me on the duration of witnessing, which suggest continuation). To be aware means "to know about", some common synonyms of aware are cognizant, conscious, and sensible. So let's look at all of these words - consciousness, awareness, cognition.
By using a word, you create something out of nothing (concepts, objects, reality, conditions, qualities, etc). Without words, there is no knowing. To know that you are aware is knowledge. Without words, there is no framework to separate, categorize, interpret, or define. Awareness is a word that is just attached to nothing.

Yes I see that, these were just stories from the past.

Consciousness is not a mystical entity but a by-product of memory. It arises only when memory supplies the words needed to categorize and interpret raw "experience". Without memory, there can be no consciousness as you understand it. And what is memory? A repository of words, mental images and mental constructs.

Yes indeed.

Consciousness, then, is not an awareness of the present but a narration of the present built on the words stored in memory. The so-called “conscious mind” is merely a storyteller, drawing on memory (thought) to weave the illusion of an observer/witness.

YES

Awareness is not some innate, universal truth but a mental construct. It is the mind’s ability to narrate its own sensations. Strip away the words, and there is no awareness—only the raw, unprocessed flux.

My mind is in utter disbelief hahaha.. but yes this is so clear now.

The idea of “awareness” is rooted in the same linguistic delusion as the concept of self. You are aware of something only because language supplies the framework to distinguish it from everything else. Without words, there’s no “I” to be aware, no “thing” to be aware of, and no “awareness” to connect them.

Indeed there is nothing.

I gave you the baby analogy to force mind’s logic to see the emptiness of ALL concepts (awareness included). A baby simply exists. Before acquiring language, a baby doesn’t distinguish between self and environment, between sensations and objects, between peaks and troughs in experience. Awareness emerges only as words are learned, carving the flux of existence into categories and relationships – something to be aware of. In the begining it could be very basic - before the development of mental concepts there is still pattern recognition in various shapes, and once the concepts are attached to that, its' game on. That’s why you don’t have memories of anything, but you are presuming that you were aware (you are imposing a quality so you can justify the idea - basically a thought). Furthermore, as the baby’s name has been repeated that many times, the self-awareness starts "forming". That’s why babies experience separation anxiety at the age of about 18m – they become separate from the whole. To be aware of oneself is to be burdened by the illusion of separation, to carry the weight of a fabricated identity. Without awareness, there is no conflict—only the natural flow of life.

Yes this is clear

Awareness is simply the mind narrating sensations. Consciousness is the memory bank of those narrations. Thought is the manipulation of those narrations into new forms. Without words, these phenomena do not exist. Strip away language, and what remains is pure biological functioning, devoid of self, meaning, or narrative. Thought, awareness, consciousness, and memory are one and the same. They are mental constructs, dependent entirely on words. Without words, they collapse into nothingness. Cases like dementia expose the mental nature of these constructs, proving that without words, there is no self, no thought, no awareness, and no consciousness. Life operates without the need for words, knowledge, or awareness.

I can SEE this now, (or the lack of this really) thank you so much for sticking with me. But I am curious if this will still be my experience tomorrow. I will keep LOOKING and report back if "awareness" tries to creep back in somewhere... hahaha ;)

*Example of experience broken down into DE
Having a glass of red wine
Seeing the red colour = sight(seeing)
Hearing the sound of the kristal glass = sound (hearing)
Smelling the wine = smell(smelling)
Taking a sip = taste(tasting)
Feeling the wineglass in my hand = sensation (feeling)
Thought how wonderful it tastes = thought (thinking)

Love,
Marina

[poppyseed]

Hi Marina
It’s so wonderful to read your reply!! I’m so happy for you!

I can SEE this now, (or the lack of this really) thank you so much for sticking with me. But I am curious if this will still be my experience tomorrow. I will keep LOOKING and report back if "awareness" tries to creep back in somewhere... hahaha ;)

“Whatever” tries to creep in will be just another empty concept, an imagination. Most importantly it won’t be relevant – it wouldn’t change THIS but just its description, the story ABOUT this! :).
It takes “time” for these changes in perception to sink in. When someone we know dies, it takes time for that to "sink in". It's not that we don't believe that the person has died. It is just they are still part of our lives - we open the wardrobe and their clothes are still there, we walk in the park and we remember when we used to do it together. It takes time to readjust our lives to living without them. That process of “sinking in” can be observed in many other situations – like being diagnosed with a life changing disease, losing a job that we had for a long time etc. Even though the change is sudden and quick, it can be perceived as a long process – it can feel as though something is still sinking in, or hasn’t yet sunk in.

The point applies equally to habitual patterns of thought and activity, which similarly reflect how our lives are organised. When the seemingly established patterns of a life are disturbed, thought cannot adapt to all of this in an instant, simply by revising all of our old beliefs. Much of the old organisation lingers on, in the guise of a world that we continue to experience and in habitual patterns of thought and activity that our surroundings continue to elicit. That very much applies to seeing the illusion of an “I” in all its forms - it’s quite a sudden change with a relatively long process of adapting to this change. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all old beliefs and conditioning.

To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little “you” will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow. Thoughts would come to the surface to be seen in a new light – the light of no doer, no experiencer, no witness, no decision maker, etc. Old patterns will be seen as not necessary any more - even funny. This can take time, as you don’t have just one thought but a whole “world”, a “bubble of reality”. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply “being”.
There might still be expectations, confusion, and doubt. That’s quite normal at this stage. You may be swaying between “I get it” and “I don’t get it.” You may be thinking that this is not enough, that some experiences need to happen, that you should be happy and blissful all the time. When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS. And look again: what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence of doubtful thoughts)? Can THIS be any different than it is right now – perfect?

Here is a video that you mind find helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w

So let's review where we are at with the following questions.

So nothing changed, but everything looks different, does that make sense in your experience?
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Love
Rali

[Marly6]

Hello Rali,

It’s so wonderful to read your reply!! I’m so happy for you!

Thank you so much.

I can SEE this now, (or the lack of this really) thank you so much for sticking with me. But I am curious if this will still be my experience tomorrow. I will keep LOOKING and report back if "awareness" tries to creep back in somewhere... hahaha ;)

“Whatever” tries to creep in will be just another empty concept, an imagination. Most importantly it won’t be relevant – it wouldn’t change THIS but just its description, the story ABOUT this! :).

Yes exactly, it is just another story, made of thought.

It takes “time” for these changes in perception to sink in.

Yes, everything is kind of the same, but also different because it is all seen as just a habit of trying to approximate THIS with thought. But this is just more stories and imagination. Not reality.

When someone we know dies, it takes time for that to "sink in". It's not that we don't believe that the person has died. It is just they are still part of our lives - we open the wardrobe and their clothes are still there, we walk in the park and we remember when we used to do it together. It takes time to readjust our lives to living without them. That process of “sinking in” can be observed in many other situations – like being diagnosed with a life changing disease, losing a job that we had for a long time etc. Even though the change is sudden and quick, it can be perceived as a long process – it can feel as though something is still sinking in, or hasn’t yet sunk in.

Thank you for explaining that, indeed this is how it feels. Something is still following an old pattern, but there isn’t anything that it can stick to.

The point applies equally to habitual patterns of thought and activity, which similarly reflect how our lives are organised. When the seemingly established patterns of a life are disturbed, thought cannot adapt to all of this in an instant, simply by revising all of our old beliefs. Much of the old organisation lingers on, in the guise of a world that we continue to experience and in habitual patterns of thought and activity that our surroundings continue to elicit. That very much applies to seeing the illusion of an “I” in all its forms - it’s quite a sudden change with a relatively long process of adapting to this change. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all old beliefs and conditioning.

They will work themselves out. There is a sense of relaxation here, like something has un-contracted/relaxed and I have lost “myself” in that.

To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little “you” will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow.

Yes, more present, more able to really feel what is there, less stuck in thought/daydreaming.

Thoughts would come to the surface to be seen in a new light – the light of no doer, no experiencer, no witness, no decision maker, etc. Old patterns will be seen as not necessary any more - even funny.

Yes there has been a lot of laughing in the last days :) when certain thoughts or reactions still happen, it just seems funny somehow.

This can take time, as you don’t have just one thought but a whole “world”, a “bubble of reality”. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply “being”.

Yes the relaxing is allowing everything to come as it is and because of that a lot can resolve itself and doesn’t keep coming back.

There might still be expectations, confusion, and doubt. That’s quite normal at this stage. You may be swaying between “I get it” and “I don’t get it.”

Those thoughts still come by but there isn’t an I here that gets tied up in them. They are seen as old habits and just let go again, and they are even amusing sometimes.

You may be thinking that this is not enough, that some experiences need to happen, that you should be happy and blissful all the time. When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS.

Yes this seems now to happen by itself.

And look again: what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence of doubtful thoughts)?

When truly LOOKING, there is nothing to be found.

Can THIS be any different than it is right now – perfect?

No THIS IS always exactly as it should be.

Here is a video that you mind find helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w

Thank you

So let's review where we are at with the following questions.

So nothing changed, but everything looks different, does that make sense in your experience?

Yes, I mentioned this exact point above. Everthing is the same, but it just has a different energy to it.

What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What stays the same?

Life just goes on as usual, talking with family, colleagues, dealing with work, with life stuff.

What changes?

The narratives that used to stick to a “Me” are now just passing by as old habits, and there is no one there they can stick to. Also specifically for me the narrative of “awarensss” has also fallen away, as it became clear that this was also just another story, or an attempt to describe or come closer to THIS from the point of view of “a separate Entity”. But there is nothing separate from THIS. There is only THIS.

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?

The LOOKING has become more clear now, and seeing subtle beliefs for what they are, specifically the “awareness” idea.

Is seeking still going on?

No, there is nothing left that needs to seek anything. There is no separation.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

No any confusion is a story/thoughts/beliefs, but even these have subsided. The mind has become very quiet for the majority of the time. Some old stories or habitual thoughts still drop by once in a while, but they are just playing like an old record and are not sticking to anything, so they are also gone much faster than before.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

YES

Thank you so much for your guidance. It is so clear now that even my concerns that I was never going to “get it” was just a belief (“narrative of Im not good enough”) on top of a belief (“Me”) 
It just seems so funny now.
Not sure what else to say. Thanks again.

Love,
Marina

[poppyseed]

Hi Marina

I'm really happy to read your reply!

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?

Love
Rali

[Marly6]

Hello Rali,

Yes of course.

Love,
Marina

[poppyseed]

Hey Marina
Here are the questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali

[Marly6]

Hello Rali,

Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer

Yes, answering from just LOOKING right now.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No, there is no entity separate from anything, nor could there ever be anything separate.

Was there ever?

No this was just an idea, belief.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is a slow buildup of concepts and beliefs, one on top of the other, slowly creating a story of a self that is taken to be an independent entity to whom things happen and which seems to be in control. This started early on when concepts started to take shape and ideas about those concepts were conditioned. This can also start whenever thought is taken to be reality, but once this is seen for what it is, beliefs, stories, concepts, without any real substance, the self entity is also clearly seen as just an idea, and it is nowhere to be found as a real entity.. and it is clear that it was never there in the first place. it was just a belief.

3) How does it feel to see this?

There isn’t really a feeling associated with it right now, as it feels like nothing has really changed, except for maybe just a kind of space or relaxation. Sometimes it feels kind of funny and obvious.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The main difference is that before the dialog started, there was a belief that there is “someone” trying to make sense of THIS, or trying to reach some state that it hasn’t yet been able to reach. Now there is just THIS. The belief is seen as just a belief and that there isn’t a someone there at all, and that there wasn’t a someone there ever and that there was nothing to reach or make sense of.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was funnily enough a last attempt of this belief trying to perpetuate itself as an entity, trying to find actual evidence of the subtle entity “awareness” by really LOOKING. But the real LOOKING just showed this vast emptiness, or nothingness which was so clear and undeniable that it kind of swallowed the belief within it and all that was left was just THIS. It was really profound and it could not be unseen.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision is just a label or the content of thought, not something that is in reality there. “Marina” deciding to write an answer to these questions is just the play of life, happening by itself. There is no entity there making a decision. It is just the flow of that which IS.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

The intention to exercise more, is similar to a decision to not eat chocolate anymore. It is a projection, an idea, a story. It is just a flow of life, happening by itself.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is the idea that there is an entity that can choose freely, without any intervention from outside of itself, what it will think, do, not do, want etc. But in reality, there is no entity, there is no choice and there is no free will. there is just THIS. Any concept like free will is just concept and a story made by thought, which has practical use but is not actually Real.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

I would say choice and decision are pretty much the same thing, so again just an idea or thought. But in reality it is just a natural progression of life. The choice to put on a warm sweater this morning just happened by itself. There wasnt an entity there choosing anything. There was just choice… or in reality, just THIS.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control can only relate to someone or something of substance that has it. Since an entity that could have control only exists in the form of an idea, concept, air, there is nothing that can actually have control (ideas do not have control, ideas do not have anything, not even reality), and also that of which it would have control is a separation, and also an idea. The concept of Control is thus also just an idea. It is just a story. There is only THIS.
Marina having control over driving home from work is just an idea. There is no real Marina entity there, and there is no control. There is just the play of life, happening by itself.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing makes things happen. If something was to make something else happen, there would have to be different things, or separate things. There are no separate things. There is only THIS, which always just IS exactly as it will be, can be, is supposed to be, etc.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no “Me” that is responsible for anything. There is just the play of life.
The feeling of responsibility to pay the bills on time is just a feeling in AE felt as sensations in the body, just as sensing. The idea of a Me that has to do something, pay the bills, is just an idea. It is just a story. There is just life flowing as THIS.

6) Anything to add?

Anything that I could add would be just another story. A good story to end with is the one of gratitude, which is felt presently for all of this.
Thank you Rali. I know THIS has just played itself out but there is also gratitude felt that needs to be expressed, so I think its good to end the dialog with that.

My habitual mind wants to ask you to please share any last tips, maybe literature, or meditations you would recommend... because it wants to have something to do, something to work on. But this is just a story playing out. This is so clear now. And it is okay. There is a space for it, a relaxed allowing it to be. It is seen as just a story, just a habit. There is nothing to do, to gain, to uncover. The uncovering is happening by itself, exactly as it is supposed to, effortlessly. It's just beautiful.

Thanks again, and wishing you all the best :)

Love,
Marina

[poppyseed]

Hi Marina
Welcome home! :)

It appears that the Gateless Gate has been crossed, but as you know there is no Gate, no one to cross it, and no end to the journey. It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy. Of course it is not necessarily the end of our conversation.

There have been no more questions for you, which means that you will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

You can also consider being a guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference, which you will be able to access once your name has turned blue, join in any group discussions on FB, or make use of LU online support groups run by senior guides free of charge.

There are three of those, and they meet on Zoom – do contact the organisers for extra info, links and schedules:
1) Vince runs one on Wednesdays and weekends. Contact: vinceschubert@gmail.com
2) Luchana and Lubo run one on Thursdays. Contact: Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com
3) Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Contact: admin@ilonaciunaite.com

viewforum.php?f=49

You can also explore the Ten Fetters, which is a structured way of approaching beliefs:
Kevin Shinilac has instructions on his site https://www.simplytheseen.com/

Pernille Damore and Todd Lent https://www.youtube.com/@TheAwakeningCurriculum

Love
Rali

[Marly6]

Hello Rali,

Welcome home! :)

Thank you thank you - I never left actually, thats the funny thing about it...

It appears that the Gateless Gate has been crossed, but as you know there is no Gate, no one to cross it, and no end to the journey. It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy. Of course it is not necessarily the end of our conversation.

Yes exactly. There is a lot that is now unfolding which is kind of strange but also familiar.

There have been no more questions for you, which means that you will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Yes, great. Thanks a lot. I'd love to stay in touch. Im sure ill run into some questions at some point.

Your username will change from green to blue. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Ok noted.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

Yes, indeed. Thank you. I have noticed that when things happen that would have caused suffering or a lot of worry in the past, now they are just felt as a sensation in the body and some thoughts that happen, but there isnt someone here worrying.. The thoughts and sensations happen and then they are gone. And just peace remains. This is really a huge difference.

You can also consider being a guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

Yes, maybe some day. For now I dont really feel that I want to talk to anyone really.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference, which you will be able to access once your name has turned blue, join in any group discussions on FB, or make use of LU online support groups run by senior guides free of charge.
There are three of those, and they meet on Zoom – do contact the organisers for extra info, links and schedules:
1) Vince runs one on Wednesdays and weekends. Contact: vinceschubert@gmail.com
2) Luchana and Lubo run one on Thursdays. Contact: Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com
3) Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Contact: admin@ilonaciunaite.com

Awesome, thanks. Ill check them out

You can also explore the Ten Fetters, which is a structured way of approaching beliefs:
Kevin Shinilac has instructions on his site https://www.simplytheseen.com/

I did get into the fetters a bit before we started talking (Pernille Damore), and that is actually how I ended up on LU. Thanks for this, Ill check out Kevins stuff as well.

Pernille Damore and Todd Lent https://www.youtube.com/@TheAwakeningCurriculum

Yup, following this one indeed.

Thanks again, and Ill keep in touch if I have any questions. Of course I am also always available if you need anything from me :)

Love,

Marina

[poppyseed]

Hi Marina
It's good to hear from you!

Yes exactly. There is a lot that is now unfolding which is kind of strange but also familiar.

Enjoy the ride :))

Yes, maybe some day. For now I dont really feel that I want to talk to anyone really.

It took me 4 years to come back, so no worries, and if it doesn't happen it's fine too :)

Thanks again, and Ill keep in touch if I have any questions. Of course I am also always available if you need anything from me :)

Great!
Love
Rali