There is no actual self. Nor me or I. defintily not a separate entity, no. It's only imagined. It was only just imagined. There was never a self. I never existed, not as I thought. No me, no mine, no self. That simple.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion of separate self begins from identifying with the mind, with thoughts. Not knowing there is another way to exprience reality. So the mind speaks in I, mine, me (still does BTW, which is very useful sometimes). And that is ok of itself, but the illusion is the identification. The illusion is the part where all the qualities that do exist - mind, feelings, body, sensations - all of them listen to the chattering mind as if IT IS SELF. They are not even seemed to be listening, that's the worst illusion - they all just seem to be this mind structure. The most illusary thought is the identification - as something that is life can be identified as, be owned. That creates a loop, a very complex loop within the mind, and when trying to catch something within the loop, "you" just go back to square one. And it seems so funny now, because, this loop never existed too. The loop itself is only another thought. It's funny (and even annoying), how complex it can feel, and now, it's so simple. It's stupidly simple.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I guess it starts as kids, because obviously babies exprience the world with the same clarity that we are seeking - just being, being the flow of life. And I believe that this idea of identification solidifies more and more the more we grow up, the more tension, ego, anxiety, shame and pride are added to this structure. Also we just see evrybody else acting from this perspective, everybody approaches us as if we are unified solidified selves (with names and qualities..), so we don't get a chance to know reality.
And also the illusion of time plays an important role in solidifying this false identity. When it was believed that time existed, the whole structure of life felt to be the "same me" living in a timeline. it's sooo narrow.
Oh my god. Now I feel everything - pain, anxiety, laughter, joy, amazement. fear, sadness, anger. love.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue?
But in general, I must say that the knowing, the direct knowing, just feels to be more relaxed. There is just no seeking going on. Now I see, for the first time, that seeking was a state of being, going towards something, chasing it, looking for it. It was so primal. And it is just gone now, with so much simplicity.
I feel lighter - when the attention is in thoughts, there is just a silent knowing that it is not all to it. And the way back to awareness is so immediate.
In other ways, this is just the same. A greater shift was expected, or just a different ones. I mean, shitty habits are still here, thought patterns… Just, the simple knowing, that there was never a self. It seems weird that I didn't see it sooner necause it is so simple.
And I must add in general a lot changed during these months (as the process unfolded) - the ability to just feel emotions as they are, without defense or the feeling that they hurt "me". In general less mind-identification. More listening to other more intuitive and silent qualities (like taking heart based desicions). These qualities are also not self, but luckily, they also don't pretend to be. Also time just seemed to drop. Just knowing that the present moment is the only thing that exist. No time.
So, in general the past week identity just felt thin. I looked to check - where is the self, what is found, and I really found nothing for a few days. We were working a lot with releasing al the remaining ideas about the self - success, qualities the it owns, stuff like that. I think that really deflated it. But it's funny, because there is nothing to deflate. Just look from a different angle.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look; describe what happened.
The last bit was reading Gateless Gatecrashers yesterday. And the first was when Elena was saying:
Where is the self in all of that?
Sense of self—yes.
Actual self—no.
I think I needed this sentance for it to click - of course there is no self. Of course this sense of self is not actual self. It was always here, I know that that there is no actual self, I was just investigating all this time within the illusion, and all that was needed was to take one step out of it.
And also this - go hot and desperate and ask. “Where the hell am I clinging?!” to the point of desperation,
like this is the last question of your life—only one and then you die—you ask.
I was asking and sobbing. Looking around and inside, and seeing that I am not clinging to anything anymore. Never did, probably. But yeah, it was like oh, my god. I am clinging to nothing.
And also maybe just seeing those realizations of people when reading, I think it made it clearer that what we're searching for is just this. As if I knew it already, but didn't believe myself that this is it.
Ok, this could be fun.5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
Decision - well, there is a capacity within this body to make decisions. Water or coffee. There's a mechanism here that works - imagining it and deciding in want and acting. But there is no one doing this mechanism, no decisio is made by someone. Ok even "decision" itself is a little off (describes something real that happened, but is not real of itself). Just the act of deciding seems to be real, but it's not related to an entity deciding. Like a cat deciding to go left or right - it's a flow. It's part of life.
Intention - It all seems to be the same. Intention is a form of thought, or action in the world. Action can come after intention, of planning, of imagining something. This is just life seems to operate in this beautiful system. But there is no one with intention to do something. And that is the confusing part, Because, being in the flow now, is always surrendering, there is no chouce bbut surrender because life just is. It's not even surrendering, just dropping the false intention of effort. So, the mind uses intention - the abilty to create action in the world, as to imagine an entity that caused it. But it's not it. it ia juat what is.
free will - ok this one is terryfing for a reason. It's ok, I let the fear flow. But, free will. It's not as it was imagined that's for sure - no one that HAS free will - like ownership. Well, free will is an idea of it's own. It doesn't represent anything concrete in life besides our need to make everything philosophical. I mean, decision, yeah, there is deciding happening. But what is free will refering to? Just the need to know that the decision itself was made from freedom? what is freedom? And this need to know has this self-stink to it.
Free will, it doesn't exist. But it's not the lack of it too! Like there is an entity taking away "our" freedom, "choosing" for us. It is similar to the self in a way that just by asking - Where is it? is it real? does it have color or shape? it is gone. It is just life flowing in whatever way it flows right now.
choice - So I find choice to be very similar to decision. Just the ability embodied life has to take different actions within the infinate options all the time. But after wiritng about free will - I want to be more direct with the two of them. Them too - decision and choice, are empty of their own. They are at best, another mind construct trying to divide reality as it happens into understandable parts. Just, when it is refering to true action happening in the world, it is just a convient way to look at it - Imagination of a few options (real thought), feeling drawn to one (real feeling), acting on it (real action). We can easily name these actions combined "choosing", just to make it simpler. But there is no chooser.
I think it's more direct to talk about these things as action - choosing instead of choice. choice itself is refering to nothing and is nothing.
control - Ok, similar fear is rising as free will. Let's see what is here. Control seems now to be one of the biggest jokes out there. how can anything be controlled if all is life. No, control has to be an idea that rises out of believing in a seperate entity that has the ability to... Unlike coice or decision, I don't find any use even in control-ING. It is just such a vague idea. That it has to be empty. Control is a way mind is imagining that false self is taking actions. when choosing or deciding, mind assumes the self controled it. The mind adds something that wasn't there.
Just life. Flows. What makes the river flow, the rain, Breath? The circular beautiful simple way of life. NOTHING MAKES ANYTHING HAPPEN. THINGS JUST HAPPEN. This is how life operates. Things just happen, appear, move, on their own. Any cause and effect is a substracting reality by the mind. That's it. not much to say here.6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
I almost fail to understand the question. Responsibilty - what does it mean. "I" am definitly not responsible for anything because that is not true. But responsibilty... It's not here either...7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I can't give examples from exprience. Do I understand the question? There is nothing IN EXPRIENCE that I am responsible for. Maybe within the illusion, "I am responsible for folding the laundry", but that's just a way the mind thinks about real things.
Seeking is done, at least this is how it feels now.8) Anything to add?
