I Need Guidance

[vinceschubert]

You must have non-human ears as the sound (normally) can only be heard by dogs as the frequency is above what the human ear can register.

[Noobstorm]

You must have non-human ears as the sound (normally) can only be heard by dogs as the frequency is above what the human ear can register.

Sorry, I did not know what a "dog whistle" was.

No, I probably can't hear it.

[vinceschubert]

So if you can't hear it, and a dog can, is there a sound ? (in your experiencing)

[Noobstorm]

So if you can't hear it, and a dog can, is there a sound ? (in your experiencing)

No.

[vinceschubert]

So can you see that there is no central point of experience ? That there is only experiencing.

[Noobstorm]

I can understand this, yes.

[vinceschubert]

It just appears that everything revolves around you. This is habit based on the consensus reality that you are separate.
If you can follow the logic with the sound thing, then you can see that to remove any component means that the sound can't exist. There can be no separation (except in mind - and that is a concept ABOUT it. Not actually IT)
This is the case for all reality. (remember, reality is confined to your experiencing, as everything else is only mind stuff from the perspective of the mind/body organism known as Ali)
Experiencing Oneness (the absence of separation) will happen more & more as the habit of experiencing separation diminishes. This will happen as the brain starts to rewire new neuronal pathways and old pathways weaken from lack of use.

[Noobstorm]

It just appears that everything revolves around you. This is habit based on the consensus reality that you are separate.
If you can follow the logic with the sound thing, then you can see that to remove any component means that the sound can't exist. There can be no separation (except in mind - and that is a concept ABOUT it. Not actually IT)
This is the case for all reality. (remember, reality is confined to your experiencing, as everything else is only mind stuff from the perspective of the mind/body organism known as Ali)
Experiencing Oneness (the absence of separation) will happen more & more as the habit of experiencing separation diminishes. This will happen as the brain starts to rewire new neuronal pathways and old pathways weaken from lack of use.

Okay, I'll keep looking. Although, non-separation seems like another concept from the mind, for me.

[vinceschubert]

Although, non-separation seems like another concept from the mind, for me.

It is a concept. That it until it is experienced.
Don't chase it. Just LOOK for examples with anything that comes to you (seemingly) from an external source and SEE how it takes Every component to exist at all.
You have a lifetime of conditioning the assumption that things exist separately. That concept belongs with the Flat Earth concept.

[Noobstorm]

What about other people? Aren't my thoughts and your thoughts separate?

[vinceschubert]

Aren't my thoughts and your thoughts separate?

i have no idea. i don't even know where my thoughts come from. They just appear.
Do you have any idea where your thoughts come from ?
As for your thoughts, they are unknowable to me. There can only be a story about them in my mind. They are not part of my experiencing and so are not reality for me.
Your reaction to your thoughts might cause you to behave in a certain way that becomes part of my experiencing, but that still doesn't say much about your original thoughts.
Are thoughts a Thing ?
Are thoughts a process ?

[Noobstorm]

I've been trying to see and I don't think I can see things the way they are.

Do you have any idea where your thoughts come from ?

I don't know.

As for your thoughts, they are unknowable to me. There can only be a story about them in my mind. They are not part of my experiencing and so are not reality for me.
Your reaction to your thoughts might cause you to behave in a certain way that becomes part of my experiencing, but that still doesn't say much about your original thoughts.

Yes, but they are reality. Obviously, the way people behave is a result from thought stuff.

Are thoughts a Thing ?

I don't know.

Are thoughts a process ?

Sometimes. When it feels like there are free and conscious choices being made it no longer is a process. (seemingly)

[vinceschubert]

but they are reality.

Your reality. Not mine...
Can you see that what you took to be objective reality can only be concept for you unless it is part of your experiencing ?
Your reality is confined to the experiencing of the mind/body organism labeled Ali. Everything else is story.

When it feels like there are free and conscious choices being made

Then you are experiencing an illusion. Choices occur, they happen as a result of arising conditions. They are never "free and conscious". They just seem that way. It is part of the delusion that an actual self exists.
Have you seen choices that seem to have happened without conscious involvement ?

[Noobstorm]

Your[/b] reality. Not mine...
Can you see that what you took to be objective reality can only be concept for you unless it is part of your experiencing ?
Your reality is confined to the experiencing of the mind/body organism labeled Ali. Everything else is story.

Yes, it is a concept/story, but it is true. I can not drop this concept.

When it feels like there are free and conscious choices being made

Then you are experiencing an illusion. Choices occur, they happen as a result of arising conditions. They are never "free and conscious". They just seem that way. It is part of the delusion that an actual self exists.
Have you seen choices that seem to have happened without conscious involvement ?[/quote]

Yes, some choices appear to happen without conscious involvement,

[vinceschubert]

I can not drop this concept.

There is no need to drop the concept. If you recognize it as a concept, you will have a different reaction to it. It can still be useful for navigating daily life, but you are no longer a captive to it.

some choices appear to happen without conscious involvement,

...and those that appear to have conscious involvement, if you investigate, you will find that the conscious involvement is mostly after the choice has been made at a deeper level. It's like a decision (choice) to go a particular way to a destination. It is considered a choice, but alternative ways were never considered. In hindsight, there was always choices possible, but, as no alternatives were considered, there was never a choice made. It just seemed that way.
Wikipedia, referring to Buddhism, says this about EVERYTHING (including choices);
The general or universal definition of pratityasamutpada (or "dependent origination" or "dependent arising" or "interdependent co-arising") is that everything arises in dependence upon multiple causes and conditions; nothing exists as a singular, independent entity.
Apply this to your thoughts, behavior, feelings, everything.
Where then is the I that runs the show ?