Ready to see clearly

[Becca]

A good way for what? How do we evaluate "good"? What are you trying to achieve by continuing this? Why do you even practise at all?

For liberation. That's what I'm here for. I've spend my entire life building a nice life and it literally has everything I could ever want.
I want to know for sure that I don't exist as a separate entity. I don't think it's going to give me anything. I'm doing this because I know that the self as a separate entity is a lie. I want to make sure I really know that and it's not just an intellectual idea picked up along the way.

Maybe I'm in the wrong place? Your responses leave me feeling very confused :) What I want is liberation. Smiling is great, happens all the time, and I want to see through the self. I feel like you're saying that's not what we're doing here but I thought it was. Can you please clarify that for me?

[ty0]

For liberation

And what is that, exactly?

I want to know for sure that I don't exist as a separate entity. I don't think it's going to give me anything. I'm doing this because I know that the self as a separate entity is a lie. I want to make sure I really know that and it's not just an intellectual idea picked up along the way.

And how can you ever make sure you really know that? If you did, would you not just be believing that you really know that? Why do you think there's such a thing as a lie? Why do you think there's such a thing as knowing?

Are you looking for some kind of certainty? I have no beliefs to offer you. The distinction between an "intellectual idea you've picked up along the way" and something you know for certain is just another concept you've made up.

Can you even write a true statement?

[Becca]

And what is that, exactly?

I have no idea. Or, I have a lot of ideas but that's all they are. I can't answer this without thought. I don't know why "liberation" has been such a tough idea to let go of but it has. Liberation is nothing but a thought that changes definitions every time it is arises, not real in any way and not here in direct experience.

And how can you ever make sure you really know that? If you did, would you not just be believing that you really know that?

It seems like it would feel different. I'm relying on thought and what I've heard from other people to say that, so I guess it is just another belief.

Why do you think there's such a thing as a lie? Why do you think there's such a thing as knowing?

I sat with these two for a long time. Lie and knowing are both concepts. They seem so real but there is no lie or knowing in the senses. Can see or touch or point to them. They are only stories in thought.

It hit me very strongly the other day that whatever is here now is all there is. And there is no "me" here now, nor any past or future or any of that. Only as fleeting thoughts and I don't even know what a thought is, can't find it or grasp it in any way.
The statement "nothing ever happened" looked so obvious and hit me like a ton of bricks. This near-constant story is a story that isn't pointing to anything real. The continuity and evaluation that shows up there is truly MADE UP. And when it's gone, it's gone. Nothing I can remember ever really happened in a couple ways. One, where is it hiding now? It's only here now, if it is, as vague images or sounds called memories. And two, even "then" (which doesn't exists except as a thought!!!), it wasn't really happening. There was seeing and hearing and feeling and tasting and smelling and story telling. What the story was saying wasn't reflected in "reality", whatever that is. It was the story only and it was gone in a flash.

I may not be expressing this well but it felt so obvious. Some laughter and a lot of head shaking. Since then a lot of old habitual thought has resurfaced but it doesn't feel so real.

I don't want to make this into anything but I guess that would only be a thought if that's how it looks.

Can you even write a true statement?

This is funny after all that I just wrote. No, nothing I could write is true in any real way. Also not a lie. Just thoughts, I guess?

Thank you for your patience with me.

[ty0]

Hahahah, yeah it's really funny when you see that the whole world was really just thoughts built upon thoughts built upon thoughts. There's no context without thought. Thoughts can only point to other thoughts, like a closed loop. Suffering is just a matter of mistaking thoughts for "reality" (which is also a thought, by the way). We began the investigation distinguishing DE/not-DE, true/false, reality/imagination. But do you see how even these categories are created by thought?

Before we can believe a thought to be reality, we have to first believe in the paradigm of reality/imagination. But nothing of the sort can be found. Where does thought end and sight begin? Where is the boundary between sound and sensation? Is there any separation without thought?

Our thoughts are neither true nor false, as those are thoughts. Our thoughts are neither thoughts nor not thoughts, as those are thoughts. Some lean towards nihilism, and conclude that everything is meaningless. But everything is neither meaningless nor meaningful. And there is neither everything nor nothing. And there neither is nor isn't. You see how deep the illusion of separation goes? Even "is/isn't", the basic building block of all concept or language, isn't findable in DE. Then language fails to describe. Because there isn't anything to describe, nor is there not anything to describe.

[Becca]

Yes! I get this. Thoughts built upon thoughts, never findable in DE.

In the past 6 days since this was seen more, there was a period where the mind was relatively quiet and everything felt simple and immediate (when I last wrote) and then a barrage of thoughts piled in and looked very true. It was familiar insecurity stuff. Through some of it there was a knowing that it was untrue thought, and sometimes there was full on belief in it.

I'm now sort of "waking up" from that few day barrage of thought, wondering how I fell for it so hard.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for in sharing this. I don't need advice or anything. It doesn't really make sense to revisit it or add more thought about it (yet here I am!), but I guess if there is anything that occurs to you to share around this it might be good to hear.

Is there anything else you see for me to explore or keep exploring?

[ty0]

Watch out for effort and judgement. "What can I do?", "Am I doing this correctly?", "Have I lost it?", "How do I deepen this?"

Notice these thoughts as thoughts, not referring to anything in experience..