introduction

[fandres]

Hello all

I am Fernando and want to be guided in passing the gate

warm regards

[fandres]

Hello

I am waiting also if a guide is willing to assist me please contact me

thank you

[fandres]

Hello

I am waiting also if a guide is willing to assist me please contact me

thank you

[cosmiK]

Hey Fernando,
thanks for your patience :)

I will be your guide.

As long as you agree to post at least every day, agree to investigate and answer from your direct experience here & now, agree to be 110% honest, agree to answer all questions posed, and learn to use the quote function, we are good to go :)

I suggest you use all of your energy for this investigation. Put aside all teachings, videos, books, and put all of it in this. If you have a daily meditative practice, it's fine to continue that.

How to use the quote function found here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

1) What are your Expectations from this process, and from Liberation?

2) is there a "You" in any way, or in any form, at all?

3) if there is, is this You separate from everything else? Pin point and describe this separation.

Let's begin,
Love.

[fandres]

.

Hello Cosmik

thank you for the reply very much appreciated
will defenetly follow instructions as best that i can and give honest 110% answers
I am stgill trying to use the quote function as you advised but i am not doing it right . will copy if its ok with you this time and will learn what it is that i am doing incorrectly i apologise.

1) What are your Expectations from this process, and from Liberation?

to continue to awaken to the reality of no self

2) is there a "You" in any way, or in any form, at all?

there is body , mind and experience . there is no me


3) if there is, is this You separate from everything else? Pin point and describe this separation.

no separation just experiencing

this is what is known so far

warm regards and love

[cosmiK]

Hey Fernando,

I am stgill trying to use the quote function as you advised but i am not doing it right . will copy if its ok with you this time and will learn what it is that i am doing incorrectly i apologise.

No problem. Copying is fine. I just want to make sure that you have a clear way of addressing each question that is brought up. A simple way to do so is to start with [ quote ] paste whatever you want to quote, and then end that with [ /quote ] (obviously you write that without spaces in between the square bracket and the word quote.

to continue to awaken to the reality of no self

There reality to no-self already Is... Who is going to awaken to the reality of there not being a Who? Is there a YOU that wants to awaken to the reality of there not-being a YOU? If so... where is this thing? this YOU?

there is body , mind and experience . there is no me

does 'body' and 'mind' come form experience,
or
does experience come from the 'body' and 'mind'?

another way to put this is..

does the body-mind perceive?
or
is the body-mind just another part of perception?

what is the 'mind'?
is it a reference to a stream of thoughts and perhaps some sensations usually labelled "head" ?

what is the 'body'?
is it a habitually labelled collection of sensations (namely tactile and kinesthetic) in the here and now?

no separation just experiencing

if there is no separation in experience, and there is just this experiencing, then how can there be a YOU seeking to Awaken from no-self?

:) Look forward to your responses.

[fandres]

Hello Cosmik

thank you for your time and patience

Quote>There reality to no-self already Is... Who is going to awaken to the reality of there not being a Who? Is there a YOU that wants to awaken to the reality of there not-being a YOU? If so... where is this thing? this YOU? Quote>

you are correct !! there is no me just questions coming from thughts . thank you
currently experiancing a feeling of: Can the non-self, non identity be aware that he is just an idea? and does not excist?

Quote> does 'body' and 'mind' come form experience,
or
does experience come from the 'body' and 'mind'?

another way to put this is..

does the body-mind perceive?
or
is the body-mind just another part of perception?Quote>

Body and mind are part of perception i understand (:


Quote> what is the 'mind'?
is it a reference to a stream of thoughts and perhaps some sensations usually labelled "head" ?Quote>

yes i underdtand that being so as well mind is a collections of thoughts and ideas etc

Quote> what is the 'body'?
is it a habitually labelled collection of sensations (namely tactile and kinesthetic) in the here and now? Quote>

yes also i understand body to be sensation and part of perception

Quote> if there is no separation in experience, and there is just this experiencing, then how can there be a YOU seeking to Awaken from no-self? Quote>

you are right again thank you. i know i should take more time to answer or question in this process as i sort of know these things you talk about and i dont want to creat more work for you(:
one questin if i may ask is: If there was no language created would there be thoughts or just images in the human brain? I am testing that in my head by pretending there is no labels or words that can be atached to anything i see around me whilst traveling to work i was quite in my mind and found that no labeling is just experiance thats it!! no me. is this a good way to test the "I" or identity problem?

hope i make sence

love

[cosmiK]

Hey Fernando,

to use the quote you have to use [ quote ] to begin and then [ /quote ] to end. Or press the QUOTE button on the Reply section. Refer to this for instructions:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Can the non-self, non identity be aware that he is just an idea? and does not excist?

Within your question there is still the assumption that there is some-thing or some-one or some entity or some separate thing that can be aware and realize.

Awareness, or Experiencing is happening already. However, there is some assumption of a separate experience-er that is apart from the Experience. There is ONLY the Experience... which INCLUDES the experience of an experience-er.

Body and mind are part of perception i understand (:

Fernando, yes... there is just this Experience, within it there can be all sorts of stuff like thought, sensations, appearances of people, tables, computers, text, planets, forests, tooth fairies and there is also the appearance of a separate self and thoughts about an "I" or "me". However... LOOK DEEPLY in Experience... is there EVER any separate experience-er? EVER any separation?

'this' is complete. 'this' is aware of itself. There is no separate You.

you are right again thank you. i know i should take more time to answer or question in this process as i sort of know these things you talk about and i dont want to creat more work for you(:

Do not be concerned about this.... your Work is to answer and respond HONESTLY from where you are... whether if that is "there is a separate self" or "there is no separate self". My Work is to point you back to your Direct Experience, here & Now. Then... your Work is to LOOK DEEPLY at this Experience, and deconstruct any assumptions of a separate self/doer/thinker/watcher and SEE the inseparability of 'this'.

one questin if i may ask is: If there was no language created would there be thoughts or just images in the human brain? I am testing that in my head by pretending there is no labels or words that can be atached to anything i see around me whilst traveling to work i was quite in my mind and found that no labeling is just experiance thats it!! no me. is this a good way to test the "I" or identity problem?

No idea Fernando... the thing is there is language, as apparent in you reading this text on the screen, so it is best not to go in to imagined speculation.

Regardless of any labels, or thoughts, is there ever a real "I"?

Look at it this way:

There is Experience, and Thoughts about it, which is ALSO Experience.... there is ONLY Experience.
There is seeing, no seeer
There is feeling, no feeler
There is hearing, no hearer
There is tasting, no taster
There is smelling, no smeller
There is thinking, no thinker

There is just 'this'
just Experience,
and sometimes Thoughts about it... yet... that is ALSO Experience.
There is only EVER 'this'... There is ONLY Experience.

So LOOK DEEPLY...

Is there a center that experience arises to?
Is there a center that experience comes from?

Or is that just another Experience? :)

Answer my questions, and then tell me where you are at with this investigation. Where do you feel you need to investigate? What assumptions are unquestioned? Where is there still separation? Where is there still a separate YOU?

with Love.

[fandres]

Hello Cosmik
thanks again for the advise and patience

Fernando, yes... there is just this Experience, within it there can be all sorts of stuff like thought, sensations, appearances of people, tables, computers, text, planets, forests, tooth fairies and there is also the appearance of a separate self and thoughts about an "I" or "me". However... LOOK DEEPLY in Experience... is there EVER any separate experience-er? EVER any separation?

'this' is complete. 'this' is aware of itself. There is no separate You.

Ok i get this so the appearance of incompleteness is an illusion too

So LOOK DEEPLY...

Is there a center that experience arises to?
Is there a center that experience comes from?

Or is that just another Experience? :)

Experiance just Is

I cannot find a separate me I do know ‘I” does not excist !
There has been experiences of sadness and I guess its of EGO disappearing and getting smaller shrinking etc . I will keep going to this place (:
Will keep investigating if there is anymore to investigate
i know now there is nothing to investigate or to find it is just this!! right now!! seeing, touching, smelling etc

much love and thank you

[cosmiK]

Great.

Ok i get this so the appearance of incompleteness is an illusion too

We can say that there is an Appearance, and a thought can label this "incomplete".

I cannot find a separate me I do know ‘I” does not excist !
There has been experiences of sadness and I guess its of EGO disappearing and getting smaller shrinking etc . I will keep going to this place (:

sadness sometimes arises when there is a sense of loss, yet, there is nothing lost. 'this' is complete. nothing needs to be shrunk either, because there is noone to do any shrinking. Your Work is just to SEE directly that there is no center, no separate self.

Also... WHO is going to WHAT place? :) Is the journeyer separate from the place that he is going to?

LOOK Deeply.

try a few exercises - which answer is more accurate - CHECK in your direct experience:

1) get up & walk slowly.
- is there a YOU controlling/walking?
- or is walking happening

2) close your eyes. watch thoughts come and go.
- can YOU think and choose a thought?
- or is there a thought "i am going to think a thought", and another thought "i'm going to think GREEN", and another thought "GREEN!", and another thought "YES! I can think and choose a thought"?

Is there a THINKER of thoughts?

3) look at an object.
- is there a perceiver? or is the perceiver just part of the whole perception?

Get back to me when you have had a chance to investigate.

[fandres]

Hi Cosmik

I have been investigating more direct experience

LOOK Deeply.
1) get up & walk slowly.
- is there a YOU controlling/walking?
- or is walking happening

Defenetly walking is happening!!

2) close your eyes. watch thoughts come and go.
- can YOU think and choose a thought?
- or is there a thought "i am going to think a thought", and another thought "i'm going to think GREEN", and another thought "GREEN!", and another thought "YES! I can think and choose a thought"?

thoughts just pop up !!

Is there a THINKER of thoughts?

no they seem to appear in my head!!! no control by anyone!!

3) look at an object.
- is there a perceiver? or is the perceiver just part of the whole perception?

no perciever juust another thought asking who is the perceiver!!!

Get back to me when you have had a chance to investigate.

i feel like there is nothing for me to do other then eperience the experience ...thoughts , emotions, physical sensations, desires, smell, taste, eat drink run thats it?

be in the now not so much in past or future thinking, planning, assuming

these things are real NOW!!

love to you

[Eloratea]

Hi, Fernando :)

This is simple, isn't it?

no they seem to appear in my head!!! no control by anyone!!

Actually do they appear in head? Are they perceived there, or it is just a label, a lingual convention?

no perciever just another thought asking who is the perceiver!!!

So, no thinker, no perciever; is there an experiencer of this experience?

i feel like there is nothing for me to do other then eperience the experience ...thoughts , emotions, physical sensations, desires, smell, taste, eat drink run thats it?

Is there you in any way or form?

be in the now not so much in past or future thinking, planning, assuming
these things are real NOW!!

Actually, is it possible to be in past or future? Have you ever been there?
:)

with Love

[fandres]

Hello Eloratea

This is simple, isn't it?

when direct experienced yes !!

Actually do they appear in head? Are they perceived there, or it is just a label, a lingual convention?

Thought tends to point to a destination or place where they appear but its illusion , labels as you say (:

So, no thinker, no perciever; is there an experiencer of this experience?

Only through the illusion of thought there seems to be a perciever...there is only direct experience.

Is there you in any way or form?

Formless n me at all never was no history only the NOW experiance

Actually, is it possible to be in past or future? Have you ever been there?

No just in the NOW .passed and future are created by thought and pretending to be memoriies. its all in the present NOW.
much love (:



with Love[/quote]

[Eloratea]

Hi,

maybe you can check a bit link for using quote function:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Can you say how decisions are made in your experience?
Is there a decision-er, is there a doer?

Warm greetings!

[fandres]

Hello Eloreta

i am trying to use th functions not much luck iw ill keep trying until i get it. i do apologise for the inconvenience.

Can you say how decisions are made in your experience?
Is there a decision-er, is there a doer?

the body goes about doing, the mind goes about thinking esperiencing the moment just happens. no doeing or making choice? just happens in experience. in subtle ways focusing is directed by experience or it seems to.
gaps are created between story of passed, future and then focusing in the now just happens nad it all collapses into the present. thats how i interprete this.
thank you again for your patience and guidence.
will keep learning about quote function.

love to you

Warm greetings![/quote]