gratefully seeking a guide to realize that i don't exist

[lovehere]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I am aware of LU's focus, and am grateful that it exists. I understand that there is no self conceptually, but am not certain that my present moment experience truly reflects that.

What are you looking for at LU?
To awaken, and am grateful for guidance in this. I am not "trying to seek," but feel as if this is the right next step for some reason. I am not trying to do anything, but still feel that I am supposed to do this. And I have appreciation for the support.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be drawn to looking at things the "I" thought has no wanted to look at, most likely because it feared that it would be dissolved by doing so. I imagine guidance will force me to see clearly, that which is, rather than spinning mental stories and using spiritual verbiage that means nothing.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I did 3 solo self-inquiry retreats in the last year. Over a decade of other types of practices.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Bananafish]

Hi lovehere, my name is Kento. I’ve been
a guide at LU for quite a long time, and I’m here
to help you with the issue you mentioned
in your intro.

To begin with, please tell about how your present
experience of the imagined entity “self”
differs from your acquired knowledge about
what it really is. What is that “self” experientially
felt to be?

Kind regards,

Kento

[lovehere]

Hi Kento,

Thank you for your patience in awaiting my reply, I did not get an email notification, and did not know that you had posted yet.

Firstly, I am deeply grateful for you taking the time to work with me. It's rather amazing that you do this kind of work. Thank you.

The "self" seems to be reacting to life at times. Noticing physical body imbalances. Talking about ways to change some of those (in the mind or with other people). Hmm...waiting maybe. It seems that a "bigger shift" in experience has not taken place from the place of awareness, so some sort of "self" might be holding this belief that it's hanging on to a sinking ship. It's hard to answer, to be honest with you.

Conceptually, intellectually I can talk about no self. Seeing through self, etc. But...do I still feel as if I am a self? Maybe at times of stillness, no thought...just awareness, just this...no self can be found.

Other times...thinking, making choices, taking actions, noticing imbalances...perhaps a self appears or feels as if it is me, or in the driver's seat.

-Also, I am disengaging from all awakening/spiritual information while we work together.
-I will check this post each day (if that cadence makes sense).
-I will engage in self-inquiry or other actions, updates, that you guide me toward.

I conceptually know that there is no self that can "willfully" do any of this, but I am just using language from my present state.

Also, it feels useful to explain why I feel "drawn to awaken." It's almost like...it has become fairly clear that there is nowhere to go. No future to run towards. No past to run from. Yet...my lenses are foggy. It's like...if I am just here...I choose to see clearly/transparently, rather than with this haze. It seems kind of silly to stay in the gray.

Thanks Kento. I appreciate your time and energy. :)

[Bananafish]

Hi lovehere. :) Thanks for the reply.

But...do I still feel as if I am a self?

Let's start with this. Being very honest, what is your own answer to this
question? Could you say yes or no, and then describe how this feels in details.

Regards,

Kento

[lovehere]

Hi Kento,

Also, you can call me Michael. Good to hear from you.

My answer lies more on the side of no.

Rather than a self, it feels like I am awareness more so. Sensations are experienced, but often noticed as well. Typing is happening...fingers are moving...sounds are heard from the distance. It's like there is awareness of this all.

I saw a different LU thread a few days ago, and guide essentially debunked awareness. Pointing out that its just this happening. When you become aware of something, you are essentially pulled out of the happening. Or something like that.

It's confusing, because the mind wants to thing that awareness ubiquitously exists, even when the bodymind dies. Or when you are in deep, dreamless sleep.

So my experience of life right now...I notice a personality construct called Michael that has proclivities. There are impulses, and patterns, and a configuration of how the bodymind interacts with life.

I know this is not what you asked, but I feel like reporting it anyway. For the last week, I have had indigestion, like there is something stuck in my digestive tract that has not moved all the way through. This is not uncommon, this type of thing has happened in different degrees for quite some time.

I also have this odd body issue, where one of my testicles do not seem to be placed correctly, and it can be uncomfortable and also seems to affect functioning, but its not extreme or severe.

The mind/character/whatever does desire to physically feel good. But then there is an awareness that there is no choice, no chooser..."trying" to undertake some practices or going to the doctor, etc. doesn't make sense. I also help people with mind-body conditions...so it's rather odd that my own guidance cannot or does not seem to work on my own bodymind at this point.

I only bring up the body stuff to show you that there is some sort of dissonance and push to change something. I realize that seeing through self does not change your body. But, maybe by seeing me share this with you, it helps you to take stock of the entirety of the situation that's going on over here.

Thanks so much, enjoy your now!
-Michael

[Bananafish]

Thanks for the detailed report, Michael. :)

it feels like I am awareness more so. Sensations are experienced, but often noticed as well. Typing is happening...fingers are moving...sounds are heard from the distance. It's like there is awareness of this all.

What makes you feel like you equal awareness? What's the link?


Regards,

Kento

[lovehere]

Hmm...initially it seems silly to be asked this, but I will do my best to use words here.

It seems clear that awareness is all that there is. Things are happening. There is noticing of certain thoughts coming in. Certain energy patterns from the Michael character. Impulses to do things...as an organism in this orchestrated ecosystem. But, this awareness is experienced/localized via the embodiment. I see things close to this bodymind, hear/touch, etc. via this localized being. That's the current way reality is experienced, at least.

There is no link, because it's impossible for there to be a link in something that has no beginning or end. There is no way "I" can link to this awareness. "I" am the awareness, therefore it can't be talked about otherwise.

The doubt regarding whether I have seen through self or not, seems to come from experiencing life as a awareness (sounds sound, touch feeling, etc.) versus perhaps more like a 5th skanda/mind witness situation. I know that that is just a label, but it seems like the mind can be observing sometimes too.

Nonetheless, that is the answer that is coming from this bodymind's faculties today.

Thanks Kento! Enjoy the now.

[Bananafish]

it seems like the mind can be observing sometimes too

Could you elaborate?
What kind of perception is it?

[lovehere]

It's the sense that there is an observer that is waiting for something to happen, watching, commenting, like "one degree apart " from being totally merged with the moment. A sort of divider.

Although, this has lessened in the last few months it seems. Thoughts appear. The mind will be thinking of things due to circumstances that are arising. I can be very engaged in a conversation or happening in the moment. I am not really observing anything, but it's just happening.

So maybe that "mind observer" thing isn't happening as much now as it was prior. But yeah, it was the mind being on guard. The mind essentially hoping/wishing/watching for circumstances to change, most likely in a way that it perceives as favorable.

Other updates. Things are pretty similar inside "me" as they have been for quite a while. The primary challenge is the physical body with discordance and discomfort and questions about whether there should be some sort of action that could take place to improve something.

Then the mind thinks thoughts about how there is no doer anyway, so life continues to happen. This discomfort is just here now, it may stay, may not. It's is sort of odd to not have agency yet still experience imbalances that seem as if action could or should correct them, but without eliciting the mind, due to the mind craving or averting from something.

So, back to not this, which is just typing, feeling sensations (that the mind doesn't like at times) and pressing submit.

Thanks Kento!

[Bananafish]

Hi Micael. :)

It's the sense that there is an observer that is waiting for something to happen, watching, commenting, like "one degree apart " from being totally merged with the moment. A sort of divider.

Is it a kind of sense that is always there? Or does it appear and disappear?

[lovehere]

It must always be there. Just like the left hand is always there, as a part of the body.

This function of the mind...it is just a part of experiencing existence. The mind has the power to observe, judge, calculate...consider, think about...but that does not mean that that is "me."

So...I believe that this is always here, but that I'm not it. Of course, it must be a part of "who I am" for it to be here...but it's a function of mind.

[Bananafish]

Thanks! Now, not talking about should and musts or your belief, could you observe
whether that "sense" is permanent? Please be careful not to refer to memory in
answering the question.

[lovehere]

That sense that a mind is observing/noticing/etc. is not always there, because it is coming in and out. Right now, it is not clearly happening like that, because my fingers are moving, without premeditated thought about the next word.

Just looking at a screen and hearing sounds and feeling my back touch this chair. This "mental sense" arises when it is in play and falls away when it is not. That's what I am currently experiencing in this moment.

[Bananafish]

Right now, it is not clearly happening like that, because my fingers are moving, without premeditated thought about the next word.

What is it that's noticing this?

[lovehere]

I can’t find an entity, just the faculties that do the “noticing.” Eyes that see. Fingers that feel. A mind that thinks. Ears that hear.

Sometimes the conditioned mind/personality construct may feel like it’s doing the noticing. It’s not doing the noticing. Noticing is happening and then, it attempts to claim ownership of it.