Liberation Unleashed

[NyxLux]

Hi Nour,

Waking up this morning, it was clear that identification with thoughts were still happening. Through the morning, baking and cooking happened while going over what might be keeping the seeing through the "I." Every thought with the labeling was noticed and contemplation of life happening as it was seen and experienced. Midafternoon came and the thoughts slowed. During a TV show, an odd sensation started to happen in the body as another thought was noticed. Then the head had a different sensation. The show was turned off and all thoughts stopped and the feeling was a bit relieving and there was no self! There was absolutely no feeling of "I." Just quiet..everything just here. There was talking to the husband and then just crying and laughing at the same time. The most relieving has been the noticing of the absence of doubt and a deep knowing that this will go on. It was hard to think at times or describe much of anything. Attended an event for kids and had a problem with the daughter that would usually cause this mind-body to dwell and be upset for a prolonged period of time. There were a couple of harsh words, but then the feeling of it all disappeared. Crazy. There has not been an opportunity to walk in nature, like you suggested, but hopefully tomorrow. The relief is palatable. Such joy! Thank you so much!

[warissem]

Good morning

I am glad to know that the doubt has fallen.

Is there a you, an entity deciding what to do ?
Is there an experiencer ?
Do things belong to you ? examples of a body, a car, a house, ...

Is seeking stil happening?

Ponder on the question above and let me know about what is arising.

Nour

[NyxLux]

Good evening,

Is there a you, an entity deciding what to do ?
It is interesting. When speaking there is the use of "I" with no hesitation. There is still an internal voice but noticing a clear reference to an "I" is not clear or unnoticed. Looking for an entity deciding what to do is difficult. Again, referencing the "I" seems to be a way of communication but the sense of having an inate "me" is not there. If the "I" is gone, does that mean it would be difficult to use in language?

Is there an experiencer ?
Seems like there is a detachment between what is being experienced and an ownership of it. Staring happens a lot. Sitting on the back patio, a train can be heard, which is usually preceived as being further in distance. Last night, the train sound was suddenly very close. The brakes on the rails and the voice on the internal intercom could be heard distinctly. That has never happened before. Experience appears to just be happening.

Do things belong to you ? examples of a body, a car, a house, ...
There is a knowing that things belong to me. Imagining if any possessions were damaged or taken feels a bit like disappointing, but not in a devastating way. Again, being upset can happen, but is quite fleeting. There is the usual need to take care of things, but the fixation on it is not there.

[NyxLux]

Question: should there be a feeling of equinimity or oneness?

[warissem]

Good evening

It is interesting. When speaking there is the use of "I" with no hesitation.

It is normal to use "I" to communicate but you know for sure that there is no self saying "I".

There is still an internal voice but noticing a clear reference to an "I" is not clear or unnoticed.
Looking for an entity deciding what to do is difficult.

How a decision is taken? Give an example and see if there is a you, a separate self in the decisional process.

Again, referencing the "I" seems to be a way of communication but the sense of having an inate "me"
is not there. If the "I" is gone, does that mean it would be difficult to use in language?

The "I" has not gone, it was never there outside of thought."I" is still used to communicate.

Is there an experiencer ?

Seems like there is a detachment between what is being experienced and an ownership of it. Staring happens
a lot. Sitting on the back patio, a train can be heard, which is usually preceived as being further in distance.
Last night, the train sound was suddenly very close. The brakes on the rails and the voice on the internal intercom
could be heard distinctly. That has never happened before. Experience appears to just be happening.

Yes, experience is just happening. Does it need an owner to be here?
If it is so, can you describe the owner of experience for me?

Do things belong to you ? examples of a body, a car, a house, ...

There is a knowing that things belong to me. Imagining if any possessions were damaged or taken feels a bit
like disappointing, but not in a devastating way. Again, being upset can happen, but is quite fleeting. There is the
usual need to take care of things, but the fixation on it is not there.

Yes taking care of a body, a house, a car is useful.

I invite you to do this exercise :

Describe what is happening during 2 minutes with using "I", "me", "my", ...
Then take 2 minutes to describe what is happening without using those pronouns.

Exxample :I am walking
walking is happening


What are the differences between the two in feelings?


Best for you

[NyxLux]

Hello,

How a decision is taken? Give an example and see if there is a you, a separate self in the decisional process
Decisions happen based on the moment. The worrisome attachment of a self in that, does not appear to be there. The decision is just made, regardless of how I converse about it.

Yes, experience is just happening. Does it need an owner to be here?
If it is so, can you describe the owner of experience for me?
No, experience needs no owner to be here. It's just here, appearing now.there is no me to personalize or one an experience. It is as it is. Just this. When looking is done for a self in anything is missing.

Describe what is happening during 2 minutes with using "I", "me", "my", ...
Then take 2 minutes to describe what is happening without using those pronouns.
I am sitting
Sitting is happening
I am looking
Looking is happening
I am typing
Typing is happening
I am thinking
Thinking is happening

[NyxLux]

Looks like the post was cut off after submitting.

The feeling around saying "I am sitting, looking etc... is a bit empty and detached. There is no longer a feeling of ownership or a comfort in that.
When simply stating there is sitting, looking etc.. there is an internal energy in that and a knowing. It is at it is..just this.

[warissem]

Good morning

You have done a good job here.

Is there still seeking?

Is there any question or any lasting doubt about seeing through the illusion?

Is there past or future outside of thoughts?

Let me know if you are ready for the final questions.

Best for you

[NyxLux]

Hello,

Is there still seeking?

The only thing that comes up is What is next? Still unsure if there should be a feeling of equinimity or oneness. There is a desire to deepen this.

Is there any question or any lasting doubt about seeing through the illusion?

No question or doubt about seeing no self.

Is there past or future outside of thoughts?

Not at all. A pst or future only exist in thoughts, and thoughts are illusions.
What do you think should be looked at next?

[warissem]

Good morning

Still unsure if there should be a feeling of equinimity or oneness.

Experiences come and go. Right now, is there a distance between experience and the knowing (being aware) of it ?

There is a desire to deepen this.

Is there separation between what is seen and the knowing of it?
Is there separation between sensations and the knowing of them?

There is an investigation of the body, I wish it will help to go deeper :

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Best for you

[NyxLux]

Is there separation between what is seen and the knowing of it?
Is there separation between sensations and the knowing of them?

Seeing is just seeing. There is a gap when identifying what is being seen. That is just thought labeling etc. Sensations seem to be the same. They just come and go. Identifying them comes in the thoughts afterward.

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

The body detection seems to dissappear. Energy is felt and it expands. Boundary between clothing or chair goes unnoticed. Inside and outside seems to be undetectable unless there something is felt on the skin or itching.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The label "body" just refers to the this body-mind and the functions of it. It feels like a mode of preceiving senses. The experience is just that then. A series of senses, feelings, thoughts etc.

[warissem]

Good morning

There is a gap when identifying what is being seen.
The gap is between what is seen and ... ? can you be clearer?

In this forum, the answers must be given through direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and sensations. Thoughts are used to communicate. Example : what is the color of the sky right now?
We have two ways to give answers :
1. Guess the answer from the last time you have seen the sky
2. Take a look at the sky right now and SEE its color.

You agree with me that the best way is the 2. Now, in the light of what is said above, give answers to each question separately, it is important. Each question is a pointer.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Best for you

[NyxLux]

Hello,

There is a gap when identifying what is being seen.
The gap is between what is seen and ... ? can you be clearer?

Unsure how to make it clearer. There is a gap between what is seen and an accompanying thought to label it or recognize it. Not sure how else to describe this.

The first time the excersize was done, it was in a meditative state. This time, the eyes were just closed.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Length of the body can somewhat be felt by the consistent vibration that was happening from head to feet during most of the time when the eyes were closed. So it was clear where the top and bottom of the body were.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

The body felt heavy and pressure from the chair made volume more noticeable. The vibration of the body added the the feeling volume.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Again, the shape and form came from the feeling of sitting in the chair with pressure around some of the body. Throbbing from the vibration and numbing in the limbs over time, seemed to create the sense of shape.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Only in certain places. It was difficult to discern an actual boundary between the skin and clothing.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

This was a bit easier to feel due to the pressure between the body and chair. The pressure seems to stop where the body meets the object.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The label refers to the senses like feeling, hearing, smelling, energy?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The experience is a series of sensations. Breathing happens. Tingling, feeling of energy, and pressure can be felt. Hearing of stomach noises and consistent ear ringing is also experienced.

[warissem]

Good morning

Good observations about the body. Here are some comments

Length of the body can somewhat be felt by the consistent vibration that was happening from head to feet during most of the time when the eyes were closed. So it was clear where the top and bottom of the body were.

The body felt heavy and pressure from the chair made volume more noticeable. The vibration of the body added the the feeling volume.

How it goes when the labels and mental images of "body" and "chair" are discarded?

Again, the shape and form came from the feeling of sitting in the chair with pressure around some of the body. Throbbing from the vibration and numbing in the limbs over time, seemed to create the sense of shape.

See my comment above.

Is there any change in the relations with others after seeing through the illusion?
How is day to day life now? What is the difference from before coming to this forum?

Nour

[NyxLux]

Good evening,

How it goes when the labels and mental images of "body" and "chair" are discarded?

When those labels are discarded, it is just the senses. It's just the pressure, heaviness, tingles, and energy that exists. They belong to no one. It's just there.

Is there any change in the relations with others after seeing through the illusion?
How is day to day life now? What is the difference from before coming to this forum?

Relations are about the same, although, it is more glaring now to see how people are very identified with the self. It is like everyone is the star of their own show. This is reflected in speaking to others and observing behaviors, such as driving. I do notice "I" am reactionary to what is happening, but trying to move slower to catch these tendencies and stop during the gap between what is happening and the pull to react right away or at all. Feelings come and go. It is amazing how fast they disappear. So, in some ways, it's easier to just sit with emotion or sensations.
Day to day life is the same around what is done. Although, the feelings around seeking have slowed quite a bit. It seems as though the deep desperation of wanting to awaken has subsided. Everything now has shifted more to curiosity. There is a feeling inside that more is coming.