Stream Entry

[Alless]

It doesn’t generate any kind of answer. Like sitting and thinking “bubble”. In this case no answer appears because no question is being asked. Even though “where is the feeler” is a question, nobody, no one thing is answering.

So nothing happens… no answers.

This is beautiful Nicholas. This silence is the source of the "answer" you are looking for. Just stay there whenever you can .... do your best to just remain totally open being willing not to do a thing. Don't move a hairsbreadth away. Even the thought "bubble" is a distraction if we believe it. The mind will react in all sorts of ways to this. There is nothing here for the mind. It can be very uncomfortable and the mind will do all sorts of tricks to take you away from this nothingness.
When you find yourself in this place of "there's no answer coming" if you find you are being "taken away" just look and tell me what "takes you away"

So I look at the mind to see what IT has to say… and it says “well, I think I’m right here, in the head, behind the eyes, inside the mind” and what happens next is that I agree with that and I tell you this because this “agreement” has some kind of “energy” or “substance” or “palpable weight” that maybe should be looked into.

When you go there the mind will always have something to say about someTHING or the absence of someTHING. But as you are finding out, the mind has no real answers. It just ruminates over what is THOUGHT to be true.

When I do these questions they just feel like words in the wind. I’m having trouble getting in the right frame of mind, in the “I REALLY WANT TO KNOW THIS”, when I ask… feels like I don’t want to know, like there’s no “power” in there, no energy.

Trying to get in the right frame of mind, feeling like I don't want to, feeling like there is no energy. These are all brilliant ways in which the mind trying to distract you.Yes, these questions are like words in the wind. It's not the words that are important it's where these questions are guiding attention to which is important.
So just let the powerless feeling be there, let whatever frame of mind is being experienced just be there. And just wait in the "place of no answer" and see what happens.
Do you feel at peace when you are waiting for an answer?




Here's something. When you feel you have to do something, when you become aware of those sorts of thoughts just let them be and let me know what happens



One last thing ....when you find yourself in that place where there are no mind answers .......
Do you find it a little less uncomfortable than you used to?




Are you feeling that you can trust it a little more?



With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

When you find yourself in this place of "there's no answer coming" if you find you are being "taken away" just look and tell me what "takes you away"

Ok so here’s what happens: let’s say I ask “where’s Nicholas?” ok? Regardless of the “energy” I put in it.
Then I wait. And watch everything.

This is my issue: I’m finding no difference between doing this and just watching all 6 doors (hope I’m not wrong with this), like… just paying attention to what’s happening in the 5 senses and being aware of what thoughts are there on mind.

The only possible difference is “intention” behind this. But in any case, I have to throw fire into this intention otherwise I get distracted (maybe repeating the question in my mind every time I forget)

Is it possible that this is beyond the 6 doors? Do I have to try to perceive something beyond mind, hearing, feeling, seeing, etc?

Do you feel at peace when you are waiting for an answer?

I don’t feel anything in particular!! hahaha
I guess not peace, because I "create" the question then "wait". but that "wait" is extremely false. because attention switches between what I see (eyes closed), what I feel, what I hear, how I'm moving my body... so it means I'm still "doing something"

Here's something. When you feel you have to do something, when you become aware of those sorts of thoughts just let them be and let me know what happens

I guess the point of this is to abandon all "doing" right? That’s when “truth” shows itself?

In any case…
Like I said before, I have trouble distinguishing difference between this and doing contemplation.

One last thing ....when you find yourself in that place where there are no mind answers .......
Do you find it a little less uncomfortable than you used to?

nope, I still get tired too fast, I don’t know… why… oh wait, I think I know why… it’s because my mind is trying to exert an incredible force without me being aware uh? Is that it? In other words, still trying to discover this using the mind, so that means I fell in its trap again! Aaaah

Are you feeling that you can trust it a little more?

It’s tricky, because what’s summoning the questions? The mind itself is!

I try, I really try, but I have NO IDEA what am I doing.

[Alless]

Time to ease up on yourself Nicholas

oh wait, I think I know why… it’s because my mind is trying to exert an incredible force without me being aware uh? Is that it? In other words, still trying to discover this using the mind, so that means I fell in its trap again! Aaaah

Stay with that Nicholas.
What is this incredible force that you point to. Please LOOK and tell me what you find.
Is it anything else other than a thought or bunch of thoughts? Or is it something else as well?

I try, I really try, but I have NO IDEA what am I doing.

If there is any trying you can be sure it is the mind doing the trying.
Even trying to stop trying is too much.
Look out of the window.
Do you have to try and see or is seeing just happening?




As you look try to stop seeing.
Can you actually stop seeing?



Seeing just happens doesn't it?




Can you start and stop any of the senses or are they just all happening?

Do I have to try to perceive something beyond mind, hearing, feeling, seeing, etc?

Nicholas, you cannot try and perceive something beyond the senses because that which is "beyond" or prior to the senses is already always perceiving.
How can you try and do that (perceiving) which is already happening and cannot not happen?



What is it that is telling you that you have to do something that is already happening?




Can you see that the voice that is telling you to try is making up a story which is completely pointless?




Try to stop perceiving. What happens?




Now stop trying and see what is experienced. Does perceiving stop?




It you don't have the thought or intention "I have to try" does perceiving still happen?




With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

What is this incredible force that you point to. Please LOOK and tell me what you find.
Is it anything else other than a thought or bunch of thoughts? Or is it something else as well?

It feels like a mind clench. Very hard clench. And I’m starting to think it’s actually ALWAYS there.
No thoughts needed.

look out of the window.
Do you have to try and see or is seeing just happening?

the senses are always ON, I’m just switching my attention to any them. So, seeing just happens.

As you look try to stop seeing.
Can you actually stop seeing?

no!

Seeing just happens doesn't it?

yeah

Can you start and stop any of the senses or are they just all happening?

No! the 5 senses always do their own thing.
What “changes” is where my attention goes.

Do I have to try to perceive something beyond mind, hearing, feeling, seeing, etc?

Nicholas, you cannot try and perceive something beyond the senses because that which is "beyond" or prior to the senses is already always perceiving.
How can you try and do that (perceiving) which is already happening and cannot not happen?

oh you broke my brain right now. I had to reread that sentence over and over and over and over.
Ok.. I think I “get it”.

When I say “I have to try to perceive… and so”. That “I” is mind. So mind cannot perceive what is prior to senses.

Instead, it is the “beyond thing” that is perceiving… the rest of the stuff? Like mind, senses and all of that?

Is that what you mean?

Really, really broke my brain.

What is it that is telling you that you have to do something that is already happening?

so this is another thing I realized. I’m always doing something. Let’s call it “the clench”.
It can be obvious or not so obvious.

Walking and thinking… yeah I’m obviously doing something. I’m walking and thinking!
So now I’m going to sit down. What happens? I start thinking, so I’m still doing something!

Hahaha this is great. So it seems if I sit quieeeetly the only thing going on is thinking, so I’m going to stop that!

Oops, guess what? Trying to stop thinking is STILL doing something.

Ok, I think I see where all of this points to.

Can you see that the voice that is telling you to try is making up a story which is completely pointless?

Because trying is still “doing”, right?

Try to stop perceiving. What happens?

that’s impossible

Now stop trying and see what is experienced. Does perceiving stop?

hahaha, this is the clench. I can’t release it. Perceiving never stops, it’s the “trying” that needs to “relax”

It you don't have the thought or intention "I have to try" does perceiving still happen?

Perceiving always happens. The thing is, just saying “ok, I don’t have to try then” is still a thought and also another “try”.

Again, I see where we are heading. Guess I have to work on releasing the “clench”.

[Alless]

Really, really broke my brain.

Good news ! That's what this is about Nicholas - the brain can never get this or cope with this.

When I say “I have to try to perceive… and so”. That “I” is mind. So mind cannot perceive what is prior to senses.
Instead, it is the “beyond thing” that is perceiving… the rest of the stuff? Like mind, senses and all of that?
Is that what you mean?

Yes that's what I mean
Except the term the "beyond thing"
When you LOOK at this "beyond thing" what do you find? Do you find any "thing" there?

Because trying is still “doing”, right?

Yes !

Again, I see where we are heading. Guess I have to work on releasing the “clench”.

No ! No TRYING to work on or release the clench. You've spotted earlier that trying gets in the way. You've noticed the clench? Great ! Just let the clench be and LOOK at it without trying and see what happens.
Let me know



And go over the questions in the post above again and really FEEL into them.
Is there any of them or part of any of them that raises any sort of doubts?




With love

Alan

[Nicholas]

hey, I think I found "something", let me keep testing it and I will answer you tomorrow!

hug

[Alless]

Thank you Nicholas 😊

[Nicholas]

When you LOOK at this "beyond thing" what do you find? Do you find any "thing" there?

I can’t even look at it, yet it is there.

Again, I see where we are heading. Guess I have to work on releasing the “clench”.

No ! No TRYING to work on or release the clench. You've spotted earlier that trying gets in the way. You've noticed the clench? Great ! Just let the clench be and LOOK at it without trying and see what happens.
Let me know

Nothing happens, then I get distracted, then nothing… and so.
I’m expecting something to happen, not from the mind. But then… not in the senses either.
So where? Nowhere else to focus my attention.

And go over the questions in the post above again and really FEEL into them.
Is there any of them or part of any of them that raises any sort of doubts?

Not… really. The clench is weird, feels like boredom. I need to focus on actually something to keep at it but if I can’t find the “thing” to focus or at least its tiny little tail… then I stop.

I feel SO lost with this inquiry. Also tired I admit.

Ok so here’s the thing… you told me “stay in the place of no answer”, right?

How do I do that?

I ask the question, whatever it is, because there are several ways to say it, as long as the intention is to look beyond.

Ok ok wait a sec, I found something interesting. When I ask the question, I can somehow “hold” the intention, while mind runs wild and attention goes to mind, then senses… and so and so.

Ok let me try it…

Okay I managed to stay with the intention for a couple minutes, without getting tired. Seems that I could do this for longer.

I just stay there and recognize everything as phenomena. Sounds, sensations, what I see (but eyes closed), thoughts… everything.

This brings me 2 questions.

1 – will something like this help? Just staying in that space? It seems it can become deeper and deeper.

2 – doesn’t really feel much different than meditating, but then if it’s like so… if it’s actually meditation then… well… there’s the possibility of meditating for YEARS without ever getting awakened or anything.
But then I’m sure this is not exactly like that because people here see the truth in months. So I’m confused here! What kind of activity is this?

[Alless]

Hey Nicholas

1 – will something like this help? Just staying in that space? It seems it can become deeper and deeper.

Yes it can indeed help! And whenever you can just be with that "space" !
How deep can it go?

2 – doesn’t really feel much different than meditating, but then if it’s like so… if it’s actually meditation then… well… there’s the possibility of meditating for YEARS without ever getting awakened or anything.
But then I’m sure this is not exactly like that because people here see the truth in months. So I’m confused here! What kind of activity is this?

Yes people can meditate for years without realization. The key here is to "stay" in that space you pointed to in #1 and watch for what takes you out of that space. This is an aspect of LOOKING that is so crucial. You have found yourself at a very important "starting" point

If or when you find yourself taken out of that "space" can you see what does that?





With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

How deep can it go?

Good question. I don’t know yet! Trying to find out.

If or when you find yourself taken out of that "space" can you see what does that?

The only thing that tries to take me out of that space is the mind or “identification with the mind”. The other 5 senses not.

...

So I’ve been doing that exercise. Given the fact that it is the mind the one with the power to distract me, I recognize it over and over again that those are just “thoughts”. “those are thoughts”.
And I repeat the question over and over, “what am I?”.
And look, and wait.

So far this happened in a session (I think it lasted like… 30 minutes?)

+ for a moment I wanted to cry but didn’t, seems like some emotion tried to come out but couldn’t

+ reality became… 1% more real? Hard to explain

+ definitely less thoughts, less music. I don’t aim to forcefully shut down thoughts, I just recognice ALL of them as “those are thoughts” and that makes them stop, but I don’t see it as a rejection rather as a “be careful, this is thought, this takes me out of this space” and I’m also aware that even thinking “those are thoughts” is thought in itself but I avoid that “loop”

+ mind was less noisy, however… reality was noisier

Now these next two could be considered thoughts so let’s take them with grains of salt haha

+ I felt “engulfed” and “trapped” by thoughts
+ I feel like I’m holding on tight to a rope not wanting to fall

Anyways… this exercise seems to be THE WAY. So I’m going to keep working at it. I didn’t felt tired at all. In fact “I’m tired” is just another thought the same way as any kind of analysis the mind was trying to come up.

I’m sure something good will come out of this.

[Alless]

The only thing that tries to take me out of that space is the mind or “identification with the mind”. The other 5 senses not.

Wonderful discovery Nicholas

definitely less thoughts, less music. I don’t aim to forcefully shut down thoughts, I just recognice ALL of them as “those are thoughts” and that makes them stop, but I don’t see it as a rejection rather as a “be careful, this is thought, this takes me out of this space” and I’m also aware that even thinking “those are thoughts” is thought in itself but I avoid that “loop”

Lovely ! Recognizing thoughts as you are doing reduces their "power" It's the identification or the rejecting (as you have also recognized) that creates the problem. This is clear seeing of what is happening Nicholas.

Now these next two could be considered thoughts so let’s take them with grains of salt haha

+ I felt “engulfed” and “trapped” by thoughts
+ I feel like I’m holding on tight to a rope not wanting to fall

Yes ! Seeing these as the thoughts / stories that they are is the doorway to freedom !! 😊😊😊

Anyways… this exercise seems to be THE WAY. So I’m going to keep working at it. I didn’t felt tired at all. In fact “I’m tired” is just another thought the same way as any kind of analysis the mind was trying to come up.

Great ! Please keep me posted.


With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

hey

So I'm doing the exercise 3 times a day... 2 times while walking. they can last up to 1 hour.

This is what I gathered today:

+ some clunkiness, while doing this doesn’t feel like I’m doing it right but I’m not thinking “ah I’m doing this wrong”. It’s just that… sometimes it looks messy, not smooth.

+ I detect thoughts that aren’t even complete thoughts, like pieces of text but I still know their full meaning, so I have to still say “that’s a thought too”

+ less music, less thoughts

+ direct access to third layer of thoughts, this means: monologue is much less prevalent, music barely appears, but the third layer is there. Thoughts that are not completely clear, they are very foggy

+ it lingers, which means, after stopping the exercise… I go back to my “usual self” but somehow I still remember “hey that’s a thought too”. Just a bit though.

+ for some reason I feel more vulnerable, in that state, things that affect me… impact me more. This is strange.

+ conceptually I recognized that, I’m not Nicholas (or my name). Also, recognized that everything that “belongs” to me, my identification, habits, dislikes, likes, suffering, goals… etc… probably I’m not any of them. But again, this is still conceptual and it will only be totally clear when truth is seen.

+ yawning, probably cause I alter my breathing

[Alless]

Nicholas,

I won't comment on most of the points you describe here other than to say what you report here is so encouraging and is authentic. I can relate to what you are saying.

One point I would like to point to is .....

+ for some reason I feel more vulnerable, in that state, things that affect me… impact me more. This is strange.

It can seem strange because it is different. When the mind is veiling experience it has the effect of "filtering" out or better said perhaps "blocking out" much of what is actually happening. Our senses are dulled by the incessant stream of thought. When the mind is quiet we become much more open to what is actually happening. Often that is interpreted as vulnerability. In that "openness" we get to experience the richness of what flows and see that whatever is being experienced was always already there but has been veiled by the mind. The key here is not to identify or hold onto or become attached with whatever is happening but to just let it just "pass through" that openness. Let everything be as it is.
Let me know what happens as openness becomes more and more evident.



With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

aaah sorry for the delay.

I don't know what to do Alan, I'm tired of this investigation. my motivation just kept decreasing and decreasing and now I have none.

Do I want to know the truth? yeah but right now I feel I couldn't care less.

We been at this 6 months... that's a lot of time. yeah I had the expectation to "get it" sooner, or at least some kind of... but no, there's nothing in between.

I'm fatigued. I hate to give up, I guess in a few months I can start again.

I truly appreciate what we did here, but I think it's sad that I'm not able to continue and get to the end.

I don't know, what do you think?

[Alless]

Hello Nicholas,

I don't know what to do Alan, I'm tired of this investigation. my motivation just kept decreasing and decreasing and now I have none.

I hear you and you are not alone in feeling this. This can be exhausting Nicholas especially when the mind insists that this takes effort.

Sometimes finishing up is the thing to do. And it can be interesting to see what unfolds when no particular effort is being put in.

Another option is to take a break.

Also if you sense another video call would be useful that is another option too.

I certainly feel your sincerity and zeal in what we have covered to date. If you choose to take a break the thread will remain open and we can pick up again should you wish to. I will be here for you.

Let me know either way.


With love


Alan