Clueless

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Zendog2
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:45 am

Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:15 pm

Good morning James.
There is no listener. Hearing just happens.
What about a taster, a smeller, a feeler, a seer, a thinker etc ?
There is no taster. Tasting just happens. Cant stop it, cant start it. Taste is always happening.
No feeler either, sensations are always there.
No seer. Seeing is always happening. Closing my eyes just changes the light show.
No thinker. Thoughts come and go. They just happen. No thinker. No self.
Only attention.

Good afternoon James.

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Zendog2
Posts: 31
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:15 pm

Good morning James.
There is no listener. Hearing just happens.
What about a taster, a smeller, a feeler, a seer, a thinker etc ?
There is no taster. Tasting just happens. Cant stop it, cant start it. Taste is always happening.
No feeler either, sensations are always there.
No seer. Seeing is always happening. Closing my eyes just changes the light show.
No thinker. Thoughts come and go. They just happen. No thinker. No self.
Only attention.

Good afternoon James.

jrm72

Re: Clueless

Postby jrm72 » Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:07 pm

Afternoon Scott,

You had no say in being born or which school you first went to. When did you make your first decision?

❤️🖖

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:38 pm

Hello James.
You had no say in being born or which school you first went to. When did you make your first decision?
One of the first "decisions i thought i made" was to play sports to gain my fathers attention. It is becoming more clear to me that the body mind just responded to environmental conditions and thought overlays made it seem like i was the doer. So far it is looking like that is all there is.

Question. It seems like attention can be directed to particular sense gates and thought or even just part of a sense field. If that is true, what directs it?

Thank you James.

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:54 pm

James,
Question. It seems like attention can be directed to particular sense gates and thought or even just part of a sense field. If that is true, what directs it?
i didn't back out far enough. That too is this body responding to environmental conditions. Am i on the right track?

jrm72

Re: Clueless

Postby jrm72 » Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:31 pm

Evening Scott,

There's just happening, that's it.


Here's my story -

I don't believe we're all part of a computer simulation, it's not impossible and I can never know for sure.
I'm not religious, so that cuts out a whole load of possibilities for me about why things are happening, but it's not impossible and I can never know for sure.
I don't believe my brain is a receiving device for instructions from an alien using some advanced type of game controller, but it's not impossible and I can never know for sure.
I a science guy, so go for the unconscious brain, autonomic nervous system story, but it may not be true and I can never know for sure.
The consciousness over matter story is appealing to me, but .......

Add any scenario you like to this list, make up once you want to be true -

Like, I am the centre off the universe and all good things are coming to me etc etc

It seems that when I look there is nothing I can find that controls my actions and thoughts. There seems to be something going on because I eat, use the toilet, drive a car etc, but I can't find out how I'm doing these things when I look. I get lots of thoughts about how it all could be happening, but then we're back to the scenarios above and the fact that thoughts just seem to appear.

Direct experience is the nearest I can get to what's going on, but even that is what seems to be an automatic interpretation of assumed external stimuli.

So there appears to be a body here that does what it does and that is all that can happen.
Each moment is what it is.
Seeing through self is nothing more than this.

Nothing has changed, yet everything is different, that's freedom.


❤️🖖

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:25 am

Good morning James.
So there appears to be a body here that does what it does and that is all that can happen.
Each moment is what it is.
Seeing through self is nothing more than this.

Nothing has changed, yet everything is different, that's freedom.
This feels right, When i relax into this there is a sense of relief. No need to try, no need to protect. Just along for the ride right now. Thoughts arise. The content is objection. Just a thought with illusory content.

Trust.

Hoping to communicate soon,

Scott

jrm72

Re: Clueless

Postby jrm72 » Sat Aug 03, 2024 1:53 pm

Afternoon Scott,

Watch experiencing during everyday activities. What is it that drives the car? What puts food in the mouth? What is it that reads these words, types replies? Is there a 'something' doing these...or do they simply happen, all on their own? Look deeply into this many times a day, without expectations....

Nothing at all to lose, except the false idea that you exist.

❤️🖖

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:47 pm

Afternoon James
Watch experiencing during everyday activities. What is it that drives the car? What puts food in the mouth? What is it that reads these words, types replies? Is there a 'something' doing these...or do they simply happen, all on their own? Look deeply into this many times a day, without expectations....

Nothing at all to lose, except the false idea that you exist.
Something is shifting, It is becoming more and more clear there is no controller, no doer, just things happening right now.
Nothing is required, no effort, nothing to doubt. i will look for a doer as this body moves through experience. I feel a tendency to absent mindedly pick the reigns back up again. i can relax back into it when that happens. More observation.

Scott

jrm72

Re: Clueless

Postby jrm72 » Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:37 am

Morning Scott,

What's the difference between a delusion and an illusion?

❤️🖖

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:58 am

Morning James.
What's the difference between a delusion and an illusion?
An illusion is a miss perceived stimulus. It feels like there is a knowing that it is a misrepresentation.

A delusion is a miss perceived stimulus that has been believed, identified with, concluded, assumed to be real.

In Joy this morning,

Scott

jrm72

Re: Clueless

Postby jrm72 » Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:24 pm

Hi Scott,

Yes, the self was a delusion, that was believed to be real.

The self is now an illusion, like a mirage in the dessert that looks like water, but when you walk up to it, you realise it was heat haze.
But remember when you look from the original position, the mirage will still look like water.


❤️🖖

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Sun Aug 04, 2024 2:36 pm

Hello James.
Yes, the self was a delusion, that was believed to be real.

The self is now an illusion, like a mirage in the dessert that looks like water, but when you walk up to it, you realize it was heat haze.
But remember when you look from the original position, the mirage will still look like water.
Yes i see that. Seeing the illusion kind of stimulates a tendency to pick up the reigns again. Now that i have clearly seen its not there, the reminder that it is an illusion feels helpful. There is still a feeling of wanting to look again and prove its not there, prove nothing is running the show. That is done fairly often during the day. Maybe a little doubt remaining. Not sure. i am just letting the body do what ever it does.

With gratitude,
Scott

jrm72

Re: Clueless

Postby jrm72 » Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:09 am

Morning Scott,

Lovely to see you last night.

There is still a feeling of wanting to look again and prove its not there, prove nothing is running the show

I used to spend my time trying to prove there was something running the show .
Occasionally still do 🤣


What are your current thoughts about decision making and responsibility?


❤️🖖

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Zendog2
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Re: Clueless

Postby Zendog2 » Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:21 am

Good morning James.

It was great meeting you as well. The meeting last night was amazing! So much openhearted courageousness and watching multiple guides providing wise, gentle, loving persistent guidance. It was amazing to watch!
What are your current thoughts about decision making and responsibility?
Decision making: i am aware of activities that look and feel like decision making. I am approaching it from the perspective that i don't have to make any effort towards making a decision. Most of the time it appears nothing else is needed. Occasionally effort happens and i remember there is no control so there is moving towards the first impulse that arises. That seems to work.

Responsibility: Since there is no control i can't see how there could be responsibility. We can not be responsible when there is no control. Responsibility implies control. It took me a while to get to this. I can feel how the term responsibility tugs at the root of not enough. It feels very deep in development. Still no control, no responsibility. This body will not hurt anything.

Talk to you soon,

Scott


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