Needing truth

[Curtmos6022]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I think that this means when we perceive a personal self that that is not truly who we are. I understand that there is a true self and a false self..

What are you looking for at LU? I'm looking to know the truth. I'm ready for the truth now because I am sick of living a lie. I want to awaken now so that the rest of my life can be spent in a much happier and peaceful way. I am completely ready to have the truth revealed.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I'm expecting that somebody will guide me through the process of finding my true self. I expect that we will be completely honest with each other. And I'm hoping to find where I'm going wrong in my thinking or practice.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have dabbled in Buddhism and a course in miracles. I've actually been practicing of Course in Miracles for the last 12 years. And I'm ready to get past all of the words. Lately I have bee interested in the Atma Bodha. And doing some inquiry.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[ty0]

Hi Curtmos (is that your name? Would you like me to call you something else?). I'm Tyler and welcome to LU.

I think that this means when we perceive a personal self that that is not truly who we are. I understand that there is a true self and a false self..

Why do you think that there's a true self and a false self?

I'm looking to know the truth. I'm ready for the truth now because I am sick of living a lie. I want to awaken now so that the rest of my life can be spent in a much happier and peaceful way. I am completely ready to have the truth revealed.

Why do you think truth exists? Why do you think that there's such a thing as "awakening" that will be followed by a happier life?

And I'm hoping to find where I'm going wrong in my thinking or practice.

Why do you think you're going wrong?

[Curtmos]

I believe that there is a true self in a false self because there is so much suffering in the world. The Suffering cannot be real.

I believe that there has to be truth and Awakening because otherwise what is the point of life. If there is no Awakening then what is the point of any spiritual path.

I guess I used the word going wrong and kind of a strong way. I think that I am always seeking a better way or a better perspective on life. And so I think that there has to be a true self because I noticed that when I'm identified with my thoughts then things are not as happy.

[ty0]

I believe that there is a true self in a false self because there is so much suffering in the world. The Suffering cannot be real.

Yes, there's lots of suffering in the world. Why does this mean that there's a true self in a false self? What's the chain of logic here?

I believe that there has to be truth and Awakening because otherwise what is the point of life. If there is no Awakening then what is the point of any spiritual path.

Why do you think that there's a point to life? And if so, why would it be truth and awakening?

I guess I used the word going wrong and kind of a strong way. I think that I am always seeking a better way or a better perspective on life. And so I think that there has to be a true self because I noticed that when I'm identified with my thoughts then things are not as happy.

Ok, we tend to suffer when we believe our thoughts, sure, but how does that point to there being a true self? What kind of thoughts do you find yourself believing often?

[Curtmos]

I would think that there would have to be a true self because there is no way that I am the body or the thoughts. The body suffers in the mind doesn't shut up. And then I have this crazy fear of death. I need to get over that fear of death

I guess that would be my only thing left to do in life is to get over my fear of death. I don't know what other point there really is to life.

[Curtmos]

I'm not sure what thoughts I'm thinking often. Just everything. Life and all of its craziness

[ty0]

I would think that there would have to be a true self because there is no way that I am the body or the thoughts.

If you're not the body or the thoughts, what would you be? What else is there that could be a true self? Is a true self not just another thought? Do you hang on to there being a true self because you hope that something will remain after the body and mind die?

What scares you about death? Can you bring up the thought of death and sit with the emotions that arise from it?

Let's make a useful (yet artificial) distinction moving forward.
There are 2 parts of your experience:
1) Direct Experience (DE, 5 senses)
2) Thought.
Anything that is not DE is thought.

Try this:
First, use meditation to quiet the mind somewhat. Then, inquire: "What's here that's not a thought?" Then, LOOK. If thoughts arise, note that those are just thoughts, don't judge them or yourself. Then, return to the question. If you find yourself judging, note that the judging itself is just more thought. Then, return to the question. LOOK in the gap between question and thought. As soon as you notice that there is a gap, note that EVEN THAT NOTICING is another thought. Go back and back and back again. "What's here that's not a thought?"