Hello...?

[AskingMonkey]

Are thoughts important?

I think... they are far less important than they "think" they are.

If they are important, what makes them important?

They are useful for navigating the world, for communicating with others, for resolving some kind of specific problems...

What is the difference between a thought about an apple and a thought about a self?

I'm not sure I'm answering the question in the intended way, but it seems like the thought about the self is much more "charged" than the thought about the apple. Like there's way more emotional investment in the self than in an apple.

What is knowing?

Knowing is the acknowledgement of the direct experience of things appearing in the mind. Right now there's the appearance of an orange wall in front of me. I know this is appearing in my consciousness without a doubt. This is happening. I know it because I'm experiencing it directly. I also know there are sensations in my body (or what is interpreted as my body).

Is knowing more valuable than thinking?

Knowing is always true. It is the acknowledgement of things as they are appearing. Thinking can be very misleading.

[Steve101]

Are thoughts important?

I think... they are far less important than they "think" they are.

Thoughts are not important, the truth is important. Thought can be a useful tool if you are working out an algebraic formula in your head but otherwise they are a lie because they try and represent reality but are not reality. If they are not real then they are a lie. Is this statement a lie? Am I lying to you? Do you sometimes lie to yourself?

If they are important, what makes them important?

They are useful for navigating the world, for communicating with others, for resolving some kind of specific problems

Do you really need to have all these thoughts running through your head in order to talk to someone?

What is the difference between a thought about an apple and a thought about a self?

I'm not sure I'm answering the question in the intended way, but it seems like the thought about the self is much more "charged" than the thought about the apple. Like there's way more emotional investment in the self than in an apple

There is NO difference between a thought about an apple and a thought about a self, they are both lies as they are just fictional representations of what is real….direct experience. IF THEY ARE NOT REAL ARE THEY TRUE? If you really wanted you could make a thought about an apple even more charged than a thought about a self? They are just thoughts. When you see the word GREEN, what is the direct experience, the word or the colour red?

What is knowing?

Knowing is the acknowledgement of the direct experience of things appearing in the mind. Right now there's the appearance of an orange wall in front of me. I know this is appearing in my consciousness without a doubt. This is happening. I know it because I'm experiencing it directly. I also know there are sensations in my body (or what is interpreted as my body).

If you know that direct is experience is a true representation of reality and thought is a lie about reality why continue to believe the lie? Why not LOOK and see what is real? Do thoughts about anything make them real, make them true? LOOK and see what is real or THINK about what is real and live the lie. Has thinking and analysing helped you at all in this process or is LOOKING and KNOWING the only thing that will cut it? TRUTH or LIE?


I am on holiday until the 27th July, I will return after that. In the mean time read what I have written very carefully and see what arises as knowing without the lie of labels.

[AskingMonkey]

Thoughts are not important, the truth is important. Thought can be a useful tool if you are working out an algebraic formula in your head but otherwise they are a lie because they try and represent reality but are not reality. If they are not real then they are a lie. Is this statement a lie? Am I lying to you? Do you sometimes lie to yourself?

This feels so true. I can see how I keep getting sucked into thoughts and stop being able to SEE reality. And I can also see how obviously the only important thing is what is TRUE. I seem to be constantly lying to myself —or rather, to fall into the trap of thinking. But it's like I see it for a bit, but then I forget again what is real. How can I forget what is real? Why do I keep living in a delusion? It is so obvious that truth is only what is immediately true, and it could never be otherwise. Yet I keep falling into the stories that thinking makes up. How do I snap out of it for good? And this may be a stupid question, but is this the same as realizing there is no self, or are these two separate issues? Oh God, I feel like the answer is dangling right in front of my eyes and still I cannot fully see it. Like it's so obvious. Of course reality is real and what is not real is not real... Is this a new way of seeing? It's more like there was never anything to see anyway. Like the delusion is thinking there's "something" to see in the first place. And yet life is just... life. And thoughts are just... thoughts. And it could never be otherwise. Ah, yes the self! I can see how the self is at the center of this whole story! Thoughts become powerful because they seem to be pointing to a very real, very important entity at the center of it all... But it doesn't exist. I know that intellectually, but how can I fully know it? Is it a leap of faith? There still seems to be some fear at the thought of the self being seen as unreal. Still feeling on the edge of an abyss... how to jump?

Do you really need to have all these thoughts running through your head in order to talk to someone?

NO, no. I see it now. Thoughts just get in the way of reality. When reality is seen, responses flow effortlessly.

There is NO difference between a thought about an apple and a thought about a self, they are both lies as they are just fictional representations of what is real….direct experience. IF THEY ARE NOT REAL ARE THEY TRUE? If you really wanted you could make a thought about an apple even more charged than a thought about a self? They are just thoughts. When you see the word GREEN, what is the direct experience, the word or the colour red?

Ok, yes, I see this. If the self is not real, then thoughts about a self are just thoughts. Just like thoughts about an apple are just thoughts. Thoughts are thoughts, and what is real is what is real. How can I keep missing this fact? Obviously the color red is the direct experience, this is undeniable. What am I??? Just direct experience of things... Is there really no self at all? Oh God. I just want to see the truth.

If you know that direct is experience is a true representation of reality and thought is a lie about reality why continue to believe the lie? Why not LOOK and see what is real? Do thoughts about anything make them real, make them true? LOOK and see what is real or THINK about what is real and live the lie. Has thinking and analysing helped you at all in this process or is LOOKING and KNOWING the only thing that will cut it? TRUTH or LIE?

TRUTH. I want truth! Yet I seem so afraid to "get it". Like there was still some reluctance to fully believe my own experience only. It almost feels like in this process I have to blow up everything until nothing remains.. and it's... scary. Like I would lose something in the process.

[AskingMonkey]

Thank you for your patience and persistence in guiding me through this process Steve. Enjoy your vacation!

[Steve101]

There is fear because you probably think that you are going to lose something but there is nothing to lose, there never was. You will continue on with your life and your thoughts and your memories, it is just that you will see things differently. You will realise that there is no self to improve or protect and that life just happens and flows. And sometimes you will just stop and look and smile. We’ll talk soon Omar. Good luck.

[AskingMonkey]

Hello Steve,

I hope your vacation is going well.

I have been reading Gateless Gatecrashers and kept looking into the absence of self. While reading GG I have been very inspired by the people's honesty and directness, and it has helped me reinforce my determination to keep looking and reporting back with exactness and honesty at what I find.

What I have noticed is that, as I told you before, since beginning this process there's definitely something pertaining to self-view that has fallen away and is not arising anymore, like thoughts that are overtly about "myself", such as "I'm not smart enough" or things like that are no longer occurring. However, I still notice a very pervasive sense of "I-ness" throughout the rest of my life. I also noticed that somehow I made "no-self" into another belief or something I think about instead of something I have fully seen directly.

Today as I was meditating something came up that felt significant, so I'd like to report it as well. It was as if I could "see" within myself a part of me that seems to have "me" at the very center of it. It's hard to describe, but it's like a thing in me that is completely convinced that it's in control, and that wants to be in control, and that is always putting "me" before everything else. And I could se how "that" "thing" (of course it's not really a thing, more like a pattern of thoughts) is using this whole exploration of non-self for its own ends. As if it had this fantasy that "I'm going to realize non-self" and that will somehow fulfill my spiritual obligations, but in a way that nothing in my life will have to change, and "I" will still be free to live my same old life, being selfish, pursuing my desires and keeping my petty worries and behaviors.

I'm sorry if this all sounds a bit strange, I'm doing my best to put it into words, but I don't know if it will make sense... but it's as if the non-self exploration is coming from that place, but it's not really questioning THAT, so it could never succeed because there's this part in me that's not really willing to go all the way and question EVERYTHING, because that would threaten that "thing's" "power". I don't know how else to say this, I'm just trying to say it in the way it feels to me, but please let me know if this isn't clear or you need me to clarify something.

Thank you

[AskingMonkey]

Hello Steve,

I suppose you're still on holiday.

I have continued with the investigation, but I feel like I'm stuck in a rut to be honest. On the one hand, I have this deep desire, as always, to see the truth and to understand what is the reality of my life ("my" life). However, the intensity that was powering the first few weeks that I began the investigation seems to have waned and now this non-self thing seems to have become just another idea that ultimately doesn't change much about my day-to-day life.

I feel like intellectually I can understand how there is no self, and it makes sense. And when I actively think about it there seems to be a loosening of whatever I'm holding on to. But most of the time I'm still operating from my old "default" mode, which I have noticed, includes a deep sense of "me" that runs throughout everything I say, think and do. In fact, this sense of "me" seems so deeply entrenched and so habitual that I don't see how I could dissolve it, even if I were to have moments when I "understand" that the self is not real.

I want to keep going, but I'm started to feel discouraged and there's a part of me that feels like nothing in my life will ever really change. (And yes, I get it, the point of seeing no-self is NOT to change anything in my life—those are expectations, but yes, for sure I feel like seeing non-self should have a beneficial effect, or give me a different perspective, or make the huge burden that comes with the near-ending quest to protect/satiate/satisfy the self, lessen).

Anyhow, I'm sorry this post is a bit vent-y, I'm just trying to be very honest and transparent about where I'm at at the moment.

I'm ready to keep working and keep digging and do whatever it takes to find the truth.

Thank you,

Omar

[Steve101]

Hi Omar, I am back from vacation. I will read over your recent posts and reply later today. Thank you for your patience.

[Steve101]

Hi Omar, ok the first thing you should do is to go back to your very first post and read all of your posts and ALL of my replies. For some reason you keep referring to ‘seeing non-self’ when we have gone over in depth that there is no such thing as ‘seeing non-self’….how can you see something that isn’t there and never existed in the first place? Please go over ALL the posts. Thank you.

My job will only ever be to point the way by asking questions that facilitate ‘knowing’ of the truth. This ‘knowing’ will never arise within you in the form of explanations that you can mull over and analyse and then pat ‘YOUR SELF’ on the back happy that another spiritual box has been ticked.

I can see that you keep looking and looking and looking but you are looking USING THOUGHT!!!!! The ultimate answer usually comes when you STOP and in the silence of LOOKING there is knowing without content.

When you read back over the posts look at what we wrote as regards expectations. You still seem to be holding tight on to your expectations in relation to this process.

What is the nature of expectations? How could your expectations be holding you back?