Cutting through the veil

[jrm72]

Good morning Debora,

Thank you for letting me know.

❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Hello James,

Do you really know what you're going to type or does it just happen?

Interesting to think about/ experience this question again. Do I know what I am going to type? I think my answer is still similar: if there's a goal to type something, then I know what kind of letters will appear on the page. Yet sometimes I do make errors, I think I will type a certain letter but another happens to appear cause I pressed another key instead, and I didn't know that. So to an extent yes but not 100% completely.

How would you describe your self or I?

I'm not sure. There are certain traits/facets which I could call this is "me" but more correct would be to say that's a persona I'm I baiting, the narrative I'm embodying at the moment.
Then mySelf I don't know exactly. Ominous, vague, nebulous substrate, more a sense of there is something without being able to pinpoint it. I don't know this all also doesn't really apply. The answer is I don't know really

[jrm72]

Hello Debora,

Type out first 10 words that come to mind and post them here.


Here's my 10, I have no idea what the first one will be let alone the 10th -

Flying sleeping stop typing ings hello wonderous erstwhile potent jubilee

(actually they weren't the strict first 10, there seemed to be a selection process going on that said yes and no to the words that came up, but none of the process of word appearance or selection was known.

Let me know what it's like for you?





Your self -
For something so seemingly important, it's interesting that it's nebulous at best.
Look for the self (usually easier with the eyes closed) see if you can find a location and what's there. Please let me know the results of your search.


❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Good Evening James,

Type out first 10 words that come to mind and post them here.

horseradish, shoe, pink, balloon, blessings, butt, thigh, haircut, typewriter, baby

Let me know what it's like for you?

I didnt really know what would flow out of my brain onto my keyboard and the page before, yet sometimes I think, the same as you describe, there seems to be a sort of selection process going on- thinking that these words all seem very related and there should be something unrelated- a process that just randomly occurred and thereby changed the next words coming out- yet none of it is really controlled or known before. It was fun.

Look for the self (usually easier with the eyes closed) see if you can find a location and what's there

I couldtn find a precise location. First I felt as if my self is within all the sensations I feel in my whole body (I can sense the inside of my entire body simultaneously), yet then I thought thats the experience of having a body. Then I thought its mostly located around the head, throat, heart area, spreading from there in my body- yet I think this is more the viewpoint from where I am aware and sense things, not necesarily where the self is. Then the "inner voice" asking myself the questions- I realized thats basically just silent, internal talking, and speaking, my voice is a way to express, yet not really myself. I guess there are parts which collectively, interjoined make up something I call myself, yet there isnt one place, or a certain form or substanc ethats the self- it seems to be more a collective term for my inner experience. So in a way it seems to me it doesnt not exist but it also doesnt exist. If that makes sense

[jrm72]

Good Evening Debora,

It was fun.

Enjoy the ride, everything is just happening, not only typing.
The self seems to only retrospectively claim a management role.



As to your beautiful description of self -

So that's what's in control?





❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Good Evening James,

So that's what's in control?

I don't know. Everything and nothing at the same time. Yet not one"thing"

[jrm72]

Good Evening Debora,


What's the difference between a delusion and an illusion?


❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Hi James,

What's the difference between a delusion and an illusion?

Illusion is about being tricked mostly by seeing that something is there even though it isn't (or vice versa) but the illusion is something external. Delusion is more internal, there are some mistaken beliefs, emotions, it's more personal and probably more difficult to dissolve

[jrm72]

Hi Debora,

So that's what's in control?
I don't know. Everything and nothing at the same time. Yet not one"thing"

Is this 'everything and nothing' actually in control or could it be an illusion or a delusion?
Look and see what you can find.


❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Good evening James,

Is this 'everything and nothing' actually in control or could it be an illusion or a delusion?

I am not sure if it is in control, Ive been struggling to try to find it out, struggling to find a good way to find it out. Its not easy to observe this somehow. But yes, it could be a delusion.

[jrm72]

Good Evening Debora,

No need to struggle, you're doing great, and without spoiling the punchline there's nothing to find. Sadly you have to verify this for yourself for it to be true for you.



Focussing on the present moment, how long or short is it for you?



❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Hi James,

Focussing on the present moment, how long or short is it for you?

When I am in the present moment, it feels endless, like this is all there is. When I try to think about how long it is and look back on how long it was, it seems like just a mere millisecond. It's like pearls on an endless string. Time only seem to exist when thinking about it.

[jrm72]

Hi Debora,


Time, the self and lots of other concepts we take for granted as existing, are delusions.
I'm defining delusion as something you believe to be true but isn't, and you don't know it isn't.
As you've worked through these exercises and answered my questions, it's appears to me that some of your delusions have become illusions. I'm defining illusion as something that appears true, but you know it isn't.

For example, you're in the dessert and very thirsty, you see an oasis shimmering and rush to the water. When you get there, there's no water and you realise it was heat haze. You now know there's no water. Yet when viewed from your original position, it still looks like water. It was a delusion that became an illusion.

Does any of this reflect changes in you or is it my delusion that's happening?


❤️🖖

[Elk1]

Hi James,
Yes, I think you nicely captured it!
I do feel that these things (self, time, locus of control..) are there but not real, I can see that it's a narrative. It still exists but not really it's a front (like an illusion). So I can see through them again and again without them disappearing but they get more transparent. So yes, shift from delusion->illusion has happend

[jrm72]

Hi Debora,

Interesting that you mention narrative, for once you see it's all illusion, we can have any narrative we like, they're all made up.

So the next question is where is the narrative coming from?


Try this video, see what you think -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY


❤️🖖