Poorvaja

[Poorvaja]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is and has ever been only one “I” all pervasive. The individual i is completely illusory and LU is guiding me see the illusion for myself.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to deepen my understanding of non duality and have a different perspective on things. I have felt a great peace and love fill me in the past and I have been chasing to find it again. It was the most liberating feeling I have ever experienced and I am hoping to indulge and get ‘lost’ in it again.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To see things differently or see them as they are. I am willing to have an open mind and discuss my own hurdles within the conversation and learn about other ways to experience the reality. I am looking forward to sharing my experiences too.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I meditate and practice yoga. I have been reading ramana maharishi books and nisargadatta’s audio on YouTube. Power of now book is my all time favorite. I have attended an eckhart tolle meeting in person.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[dkelso]

Hello Poorvaja. Let's investigate this sense of self together and see what's true, shall we? Do you have a first name I can use? What part of the world are you in? I'm on the east coast of the US. I just want to get the time zones down. Also, it's good to try to respond at least daily to emails. And make sure you check out other guidelines for working here, ok?

In general, we're going to be working with shifting your investigation of the sense of self from thinking, conceiving, to direct experience, perceiving. I like that you are recognizing the importance of seeing things as they are. Anyone starting this investigation can use a good dose of skepticism about who they think, assume, they are.

We are going to steer clear of story telling about "you", and interpreting, toward only what is evident now. And specifically, how do you seem to be showing up in the moment? Try to keep what you are doing on the level of observe and report. Make sense?

Keep in mind, this process is simple. look, see, report as is. Keep it simple. It's not easy, because thought is so conditioned into how we see ourselves. So the habit is to reference what we think we are rather than what we actually are, what direct perception shows us.

A good way to start this is to first make an "I" statement. "I feel ........", for example. Then focus on the "I" part of the statement. It seems like this "I" is you, like you're the one who feels, but look more closely, what is "I" in this present experience? What does that word represent in direct experience? Look deeply into the felt experience of "I" now, what is there?

Let me know if you have any questions, and run with that for now.

thanks,
Dan

[Poorvaja]

Hi Dan,

You can call me Pooj. I live on the west coast of the US.

I tried the exercise you mentioned. When I looked closely at the “I” in all my statements of ‘I feel so and so right now’ , there was fear rising up. The more I observed what this “I” represent in direct experience the scarier it got. There is only the feeling part left. The “I” is totally dependent on what is happening now. There is a sense of fear. I instinctively feel like stopping. Stop observing.

Should I just stay with the fear and keep looking?

Thanks for your response Dan. Appreciate your time.

[dkelso]

Hi Pooj. All kinds of feelings can come up while investigating the I sense. Just note them and shift attention to the sense of self, and question what it is. Also, there isn't just the feeling part left. Fear doesn't persist without a sense of YOU. It will just take some experience with this to recognize the subtle ways "you" appear to show up. There will be a sense of you as the one who has the fear, owns it, is subject to it, etc. It can feel like you are in the background, but the sense of you is there. Look closely and you will recognize this. Continue with the I statements, "I'm afraid", questioning, "what is this "I"?, and then perception - what is directly perceived where YOU should be? What is actually there? Be very honest. disregard judgements like, "I shouldn't be afraid", and so on. Just keep at it and let me know how it goes. ; )

[Poorvaja]

Dan,

Something very interesting happened. I kept my attention on the sense of self while questioning what this “I” really is. What a weird feeling it is to actually exist!!! And I realized, there was a lot of mind stuff happening about this “I” but I kept at it sincerely on the direct experience. And I realized something so beautiful. There was a sense of “I” that wasn’t conceptual anymore. It was me. I can’t even say it was intimate. It was more than intimate. It was me. There was absolutely no gap, no space for any concepts. It was so beautiful. Something is happening Dan.

- Pooj

[dkelso]

Great, this is what happens when there is looking, questioning, what seems like the center of our being. We'll just keep fine tuning the investigation. Can you clarify, what do you mean exactly by

There was a sense of “I” that wasn’t conceptual anymore. It was me.

In what way precisely was it "you"?

Just a note to keep in mind, this process is 95% noticing, looking, perceiving, and only 5%, or less, thought. What is this thing now that seems like you? what exactly is it? Are you actually identical to that? Find out, and keep at it my friend! It's a big stakes poker game, go all in, push your chips into the middle. And know, the recognition is cumulative. so every glimpse of what is true increases clarity.

There is a lot I could say, but rather than put it all in an email, you might check out my website where I go into this self investigation process in considerable detail. deepselfinvestigation.com Talk to you soon! D

[Poorvaja]

Dear Dan,

When I sit with the sense of self, I locate it in the body first and I keep looking at it for sometime. After a while, this nonceptual “I” is so glaringly in the face, the biggest elephant in the room, the only thing left. It’s undeniable. Since I start this whole process through my body first, I feel inclined to assuming it’s me. That’s what I mean when I say it’s me.
I don’t even know what this word “I” or “me” means anymore. I instinctively feel like it doesn’t matter at all.
After this glimpse, it feels like everything is shook up and I find myself falling asleep often when sitting with the sense of self. I found your website very helpful in confirming and clearing a lot of doubts and confusions I had.
And you are a genius when you say it’s 95% direct experience and only 5% mind. It’s what is definitely working for me.
I feel so lost.
I don’t know what “I” means anymore. It’s the stupidest word ever to exist.

[dkelso]

Sorry Pooj, was locked out of the LU website the last 5 days. They had some kind of a bot glitch. In the future, If I do not get back to you in 24 feel free to use my email address on the DSI website.

Ok, you're beginning to see through the typical versions of the I-sense. So now begin to look for subtle ways "you" continue to show up. For example, you said,

I feel so lost.
I don’t know what “I” means anymore.

This seems like it's happening to YOU. Use perception to investigate, "I" feeling lost, "I" don't know what I is. Who doesn't know, who is lost? You are, that is the assumption. But this "you" has to be verified as existing, perceived directly. Are you actually lost or is this just a thought, interpretation, assumption? Don't think about it, look and see.

[Poorvaja]

Dan,

When I used to read about self inquiry theories, I had an understanding of it. But after this glimpse, I am able to fully realize the theory and easily recognize thoughts and concepts as just that. Thoughts and concepts. And now I finally realize how UNIMPORTANT they are. I now understand what they meant when they say you are just dreaming. This is so revolutionary that I am spending days and hours reading my spiritual books and watching videos because now the understanding holds a different meaning altogether. I am just so marveled at the concept of actually there being a no-self. I have a very deep intuitive understanding and sometimes I feel it too. But as you said I need to hunt down this feeling of I. I am loving your website and I am thrilled about this journey. I will keep practicing your guidance and get back to you. I am so grateful to have found you.

[dkelso]

Great, the clarity that comes with questioning the nature of existence dismantles or dissolves many beliefs (treated as truths) about you and how life works. This is exciting, a whole different order of things from what we believe. You're seeing that now. It can also be somewhat disturbing at times, shake up relationships, or our sense of meaning, etc. That is all a natural part of the process.

A bit of advice, very important at this point not to get too fascinated and caught up in how things are different. This is the "discipline", if you will: No matter what arises, you can just note it and keep attention on how you seem to be showing up. Moment to moment, "What is this sense of "me" here, now? Am I identical to that?" Lot's of looking in and through the I sense, perceive, perceive, perceive, what is there? Awakening is not just becoming another, better, version of "me", with some cool insights. Make sense?

[Poorvaja]

Yes totally!

[Poorvaja]

Hi Dan.

Can we pick up from where we left off. Do you mind giving me a pointer to look at?

Appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Pooj.