No Self or New Self?

[Marcosen]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand that the separate self is a thought created belief system, with no inherent solidity of its own. A mirage of sorts.

What are you looking for at LU? To receive guidance, to help clearly see through the veil of separation. To gain clarity and reveal what’s preventing seeing through the separate sense of self. And to finally come to the end of seeking.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? To receive clear direction to enable me to gain clarity and become aware of where I'm getting stuck. I'm hoping that the guide will be able to see where my confusion lies and help me clear up lots of concepts I have around Awakening.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I’ve read countless books on contemporary Non-Duality, Advaita, Taoism, Buddhism, Zen. Met with different teachers, including Tony Parsons and Mooji, to name a couple of the most popular. I’ve recently also started looking into the fetters. But most recently, I've read the gateless gatecrashers, am reading Liberation Unleashed and having a very close look at the 'me' 'I' thoughts. I thought I'd had Awakening experiences, but it seems that the experience of no self was in fact the construct of a new self.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

It is best if you post every day.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Marcosen]

Hi Stacy,
Pleased to make your acquaintance.
Thank you so much for taking the time to be my guide.
Please feel free to call me Marco.

Please find the replies to your questions below.

How will life change?

I’m not expecting life to change. Life is what it is, and I’m merely and expression of life.

How will you change?

I’m hoping to see through the sense of self and gain a felt sense beyond conceptual understanding. To move from confusion to clarity.

What will be different?

That I’ll be living from a place of clarity.

What is missing?

Again, the clarity that was experienced, but has since dissipated.

I very much look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes,

Marco

[Marcosen]

Sorry, forgot to add my time zone.

I'm in the UK.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Marco

That's good. Your expectations are pretty reasonable.


Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Marcosen]

Hi Stacy,
Thank you for your question.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

There is a great sense of relief when reading those words and feeling into them.

[Anastacia42]

That's good. That question checks for fears & at least at the moment, you're not having that response.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks



There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Marcosen]

Hi Stacy,
I'm clear about what's meant by Direct Experience.

Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Good. So demonstrate that here:



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Marcosen]

Hi Stacy,
I hope I've understood the task correctly.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Mowing the lawn
Seeing Lawn Mower, simply = seeing
Smelling the cut grass, simply = smell
Feeling the vibration of the engine, simply = sensation
Tasting the residue of my earlier coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the engine, simply = sound
Thoughts about how nice the lawn looks, simply = thought

Cleaning my teeth
Seeing the toothbrush, simply = seeing
Smelling the toothpaste, simply = smell
Feeling the bristles against the gums, simply = sensation
Tasting the minty toothpaste, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the motor, simply sound
Thoughts about how smooth and clean my teeth feel, simply = thought

Driving to town
Seeing the car, simply = seeing
Smelling the car scent, simply = smell
Feeling the steering wheel, simply = sensation
Tasting the chewing gum, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the music, simply sound
Thoughts about clouds in the sky, simply = thought

Cooking Supper
Seeing the saucepan, simply = seeing
Smelling the onion in the saucepan, simply = smell
Feeling the vegetables and knife, simply = sensation
Tasting the ingredients, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the food cooking, simply sound
Thoughts about washing up, simply = thought

Cleaning the house
Seeing the hoover, simply = seeing
Smelling the polish, simply = smell
Feeling the sideboard cabinet, simply = sensation
Tasting the mint from the tea, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the hoover, simply sound
Thoughts about how nice the lounge looks, simply = thought

Doing Admin
Seeing the pile of documents, simply = seeing
Smelling the print on the paper, simply = smell
Feeling the paper, simply = sensation
Tasting the room fragrance, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the printer fan, simply sound
Thoughts about not liking admin, simply = thought

Walking the Dogs
Seeing the leads, simply = seeing
Smelling the scent of dogs, simply = smell
Feeling the lead tension as the dog pulls, simply = sensation
Tasting the fresh air of nature, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the birds, simply sound
Thoughts about how much I appreciate time in nature, simply = thought

Many thanks for your guidance

[Anastacia42]

Good work, Marco. You lost the equal sign on Sound, but that's okay.

Now take it a bit further:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[Marcosen]

Hi Stacy,
Thank you for the last exercise, it was very eye opening.
Here's what came from it.

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

I am sitting on the sofa
I am breathing
I am blinking
I am noticing the sensations of the body
I am hearing the sound of birds outside
I am looking out of the window
I am feeling the sofa beneath my bottom
I am drinking coffee
I am thinking about this exercise
I am tasting coffee
I am picking up my phone to read a message
I am reading the message
I am responding to the message
I am checking an email on the phone
I am putting the phone down
I am noticing heat in my hands
I am noticing tingling in my hands
I am noticing the sensation of the feet on the floor
I am hearing the dog scratching the door
I am seeing the dog at the door
I am getting up from the sofa
I am opening the door to let the dog in
I am closing the door
I am stroking the dog
I am making silly noises to the dog
I am laughing at the dog
I am walking to the kitchen to check if the dog has water
I am picking up the bowl
I am turning on the tap
I am filling the bowl with water
I am turning off the tap
I am looking at the dog waiting for water
I am putting the bowl down on the floor
I am watching the dog gulp water down
I am listening to the sound of the dog gulping water
I am asking the dog if it feels better now that it’s had a drink
I am stroking the dog again
I am walking back to the lounge
I am sitting on the sofa
I am picking up my phone again
I am reading another message

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

sitting on the sofa
breathing
blinking
hearing the washing machine
discomfort in the left hand
twinge in the knee
eyes feeling heavy
body relaxing
hearing the sound of a plane overhead
hearing birdsong
hot hands
tingling hands
lower back twinge
shifting position
plumping cushion
back eased
breathing
thinking
blinking
eyes closing
eyes opening
body gently pulsating
looking out of window
looking at cobweb
looking at spider
hearing creaking floorboards upstairs
yawning
feeling sleepy

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second way of observing experience feels truer. Feeling more open, relaxed, intimate and connected. Ownership of the experience from the first exercise feels more contracted, tense, disconnected.

2. What is here without labels?

Life. Aliveness. Indefinable. (Very difficult to describe without labelling it.)

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels define the experience, but don’t touch Life directly. ‘This’, ‘Life’, ‘Experiencing’, is more intimate. More alive when it’s not being defined by the labels.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Ownership creates tension/contraction. Direct Experiencing brings with it an opening, softening, relaxing, intimacy, vibrant aliveness of experience.

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Exactly! Good noticing.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Marcosen]

Hi Stacy,
I hope all is well with you.
Thank you for the next exercise...

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

A lie if felt as a tightening/contracting in the solar plexus / abdomen.
Truth is felt as expansive, light and relaxed in the solar plexus / abdomen.

The difference started off as subtle, but became more apparent the more I did it!

Amazing!

Thank you!

[Anastacia42]

Again good awareness, Marco.

Now let's really LOOK & take this even further.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,