100% "I" does not point to anything concrete...I see that "I" has always pointed to just whatever is occurring but really has never been anything separate and concrete. It's a label that has been used to sort of point to something that's already occurred or occurring. "It" cannot control thoughts, feelings, reactions, etc. If 'It" could control, wouldn't we all just feel amazing all the time? lol
I know there is no "I" but to me, it doesn't feel like a black hole or bleakness...something is occurring ..this aliveness or whatever you want to call it..
I don't want to"give up" per say..but I sort of see that there is nothing really to find! I enjoy being in touch and coming back to this again and again but I feel like "my" mind could stay in a searching spiral forever which I see is like the ultimate form of suffering! It feels like to seek is to turn away from what truly is..whatever "that" is.
Guide request
Re: Guide request
Beautiful! To me sounds like you don't need to search more. This is it 🌻 It will deepen further and further - and "you" crashed the gate. So, I am gonna send you the final LU questions, if you are ready for that? Other guides will look and maybe have questions for deepening. After you will get access to LU graduate forums and you can always reach out to me, if the wish comes. How does it sound?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
jazmine928
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:12 am
Re: Guide request
that sounds great! I've really really enjoyed this process and you have been so kind! I've done so many retreats, day long teachings, etc and nothing ever really had me turn 180 degrees toward "myself" and my own direct experience. THANK YOU!
Re: Guide request
Thank you, makes me smile to hear 🤍 Here are the question, please answer all in one message in a Q -> A format for ease of reading for the other guides:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
8) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
8) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
jazmine928
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:12 am
Re: Guide request
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER: There is no separate thing called a “self.” I have found that this label just points to what is happening but is not a separate entity outside of experience.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER: I think the illusion is that we mistake direct experience as “mine.” Experience is just happening and we are not outside observers. I think it starts when there is the idea that we can control getting what we want and avoiding that which we don’t want. As I see it now, something is playing out here..there is something happening..you could call it beingness or aliveness, but it’s happening on its’ own.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER: I feel a relaxation in “seeing” this and just allowing whatever comes up to come up. Each person has their own unique expression and I no longer feel like I need to do anything to improve or change “myself.” I didn’t choose preferences, worries, talents, etc..they are just arising. Even though there isn’t a separate self, I feel more at ease just being “me” whatever that might look like from moment to moment.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER: I think for me it’s been gradual although there have moments of clear seeing all along. In the past I’ve been a big reader of nonduality and buddhist type books and Elad really encouraged me to put the books down and stop all the youtube videos. It was hard! He recently encouraged me to read some of the stories in Liberation Unleashed Gateless Gate Crashers which I enjoyed and then I just didn’t want to read anymore and this drive to seek has really started to disappear. To read a book on nonduality or watch a video now feels like a turning away from this aliveness. It's like closing the door on the very thing I’m looking for!
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER: I’ve enjoyed thinking about this a lot over the past year. The idea of free will, choice and control are really an illusion. I notice there are urges that might pop up out of nowhere but they weren’t chosen by anyone. “I” might “choose” to have coffee each morning, but I never chose to like it or want it..it just happens. We might feel like we are the ones making choices or having control, but it all just happens and then we think that we are the ones that did it! Even if we deliberate over a decision, there is “something” be it an urge or a bubbling up, that guides that way.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER: I don’t know! Something here in this bodymind, environment? There’s so much playing out all the time that we can’t be aware of
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER: In a way “I” feel responsible for my children, my family, job etc…but I don’t “choose” to be a responsible person..it just happens. There are many people who don’t behave as responsible parents and cannot for probably a bunch of reasons we cannot know.They don’t choose it. I know there is no separate “I” telling me to be a responsible mother…”I” just am…it’s like responsibility is what’s happening. Just like my eyes are blue and there is no control over that.
8) Anything to add?
ANSWER: This is something I sense will settle in over time as Elad said. There was no big “enlightenment” experience that happened and I can really sense how these sorts of expectations really prevent us from seeing what is here. “I” might not be 100% through the gate but I feel so much more as ease and free to just be…the thought of reading a non duality or self help book feels like such a clench in my heart. So much more peace now. Thank you thank you
ANSWER: There is no separate thing called a “self.” I have found that this label just points to what is happening but is not a separate entity outside of experience.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER: I think the illusion is that we mistake direct experience as “mine.” Experience is just happening and we are not outside observers. I think it starts when there is the idea that we can control getting what we want and avoiding that which we don’t want. As I see it now, something is playing out here..there is something happening..you could call it beingness or aliveness, but it’s happening on its’ own.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER: I feel a relaxation in “seeing” this and just allowing whatever comes up to come up. Each person has their own unique expression and I no longer feel like I need to do anything to improve or change “myself.” I didn’t choose preferences, worries, talents, etc..they are just arising. Even though there isn’t a separate self, I feel more at ease just being “me” whatever that might look like from moment to moment.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER: I think for me it’s been gradual although there have moments of clear seeing all along. In the past I’ve been a big reader of nonduality and buddhist type books and Elad really encouraged me to put the books down and stop all the youtube videos. It was hard! He recently encouraged me to read some of the stories in Liberation Unleashed Gateless Gate Crashers which I enjoyed and then I just didn’t want to read anymore and this drive to seek has really started to disappear. To read a book on nonduality or watch a video now feels like a turning away from this aliveness. It's like closing the door on the very thing I’m looking for!
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER: I’ve enjoyed thinking about this a lot over the past year. The idea of free will, choice and control are really an illusion. I notice there are urges that might pop up out of nowhere but they weren’t chosen by anyone. “I” might “choose” to have coffee each morning, but I never chose to like it or want it..it just happens. We might feel like we are the ones making choices or having control, but it all just happens and then we think that we are the ones that did it! Even if we deliberate over a decision, there is “something” be it an urge or a bubbling up, that guides that way.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER: I don’t know! Something here in this bodymind, environment? There’s so much playing out all the time that we can’t be aware of
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER: In a way “I” feel responsible for my children, my family, job etc…but I don’t “choose” to be a responsible person..it just happens. There are many people who don’t behave as responsible parents and cannot for probably a bunch of reasons we cannot know.They don’t choose it. I know there is no separate “I” telling me to be a responsible mother…”I” just am…it’s like responsibility is what’s happening. Just like my eyes are blue and there is no control over that.
8) Anything to add?
ANSWER: This is something I sense will settle in over time as Elad said. There was no big “enlightenment” experience that happened and I can really sense how these sorts of expectations really prevent us from seeing what is here. “I” might not be 100% through the gate but I feel so much more as ease and free to just be…the thought of reading a non duality or self help book feels like such a clench in my heart. So much more peace now. Thank you thank you
Re: Guide request
Sounds very clear to me! One question to your last answer:
When you write "I might not be 100% through the gate, what is it you imagine is missing and for whom? Is it true, is there anything really missing?
When you write "I might not be 100% through the gate, what is it you imagine is missing and for whom? Is it true, is there anything really missing?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
jazmine928
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:12 am
Re: Guide request
What I meant was that if the guides didn't think I was through the gate, I don't feel like anything is missing so if I don't "pass" that's ok ;) lol
Re: Guide request
😄💗What I meant was that if the guides didn't think I was through the gate, I don't feel like anything is missing so if I don't "pass" that's ok ;) lol
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Guide request
Will get back to you after other guides have looked
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Guide request
One guide asked:
Q1) She said "but is not a separate entity outside of experience." Can she find an entity of "me" inside of experience?
Q2) Has there ever been a self other than as a thought? Y/N
Q1) She said "but is not a separate entity outside of experience." Can she find an entity of "me" inside of experience?
Q2) Has there ever been a self other than as a thought? Y/N
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
jazmine928
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:12 am
Re: Guide request
just thoughts, feelings, and perceptions
Re: Guide request
Thanks. The guide asked for a direct answer to his Q2:
Has there ever been a self other than as a thought? Yes/no
Has there ever been a self other than as a thought? Yes/no
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
jazmine928
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:12 am
Re: Guide request
No! Thought has claimed experience as “I” but “I” is always just a thought
Re: Guide request
Dear Jessica,
Three other guides have looked and confirmed seeing, they had no further questions.
It has been a real pleasure to guide you and I am grateful that you allowed me to walk this path with you. A few thoughts as we "close this chapter":
For the vast majority of us this is not the end of awakening. Deepening, clarifying and letting go continues. Doubt may or may not put in an appearance, this is normal. Adverse conditioned responses and old patterns will get triggered when circumstances align. With future patterns and beliefs to be seen through, the same sincere simple attending and questioning that took you through the gate will be your "friends and helpers" too.
Paying it forward by guiding is a great way to 'deepen' and is a possibility that you may wish to consider, once there is a feeling of readiness and wishing to. Invited to talk to me about it any time.
You will be invited to the Unleashed FB group by Nerina. You are encouraged to use it to communicate with others that have recently 'gated'. You are also invited to any of 3 weekly free zoom groups where you can work on anything that comes up or support and guide other people who "have not crossed the gateless gate". For the zoom meetings, email vinceschubert@gmail.com, tell him you are an "LU graduate".
I will greet you at the facebook group if you join, and we can connect there. And I am always happy to hear from you if you feel like sharing on how things evolve. You can also always write eladexplore1111@gmail.com.
Much love
Three other guides have looked and confirmed seeing, they had no further questions.
It has been a real pleasure to guide you and I am grateful that you allowed me to walk this path with you. A few thoughts as we "close this chapter":
For the vast majority of us this is not the end of awakening. Deepening, clarifying and letting go continues. Doubt may or may not put in an appearance, this is normal. Adverse conditioned responses and old patterns will get triggered when circumstances align. With future patterns and beliefs to be seen through, the same sincere simple attending and questioning that took you through the gate will be your "friends and helpers" too.
Paying it forward by guiding is a great way to 'deepen' and is a possibility that you may wish to consider, once there is a feeling of readiness and wishing to. Invited to talk to me about it any time.
You will be invited to the Unleashed FB group by Nerina. You are encouraged to use it to communicate with others that have recently 'gated'. You are also invited to any of 3 weekly free zoom groups where you can work on anything that comes up or support and guide other people who "have not crossed the gateless gate". For the zoom meetings, email vinceschubert@gmail.com, tell him you are an "LU graduate".
I will greet you at the facebook group if you join, and we can connect there. And I am always happy to hear from you if you feel like sharing on how things evolve. You can also always write eladexplore1111@gmail.com.
Much love
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
jazmine928
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:12 am
Re: Guide request
Thank you so much Elad! I just emailed Vince and hope to attend some of the zoom sessions. Everything you mentioned makes total senseck to to me. I can absolutely see how doubt can creep in and say "nothing has changed! look you're still getting caught up in such and such!" I guess the big shift is not seeing these "catches" as problems and like you said ...does there need to be a self for all of that to occur? I will continue to come back to the pointers and inquiry as "friends" as you suggested. Hope to connect again soon in the future. Those who you are guiding are so lucky! Have a wonderful week.
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