Go time!

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

I really appreciate all the time you have spent guiding me and hope this message comes across OK, in trying to clarify where we are at. Anything that is written like this can only come from the mind, and with what we’ve been working on it feels wrong in a way but it’s the only way I can express myself. I’m suspecting the intellectual understanding here is at a level where I know what the answers are but we agreed on full honesty, so I’m reluctant to answer without making you aware that I don’t feel like there is the clarity here, that I (think I) see from others who have gone through the gate.

You said at the start “The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. It's a complete realization. The end of seeking. This is one looking and it is over, in a sense.”. I’m really struggling to think anything like that could have happened here and it not be obvious, although like I said the other day, something here has a big fantasy going on about how this will happen and I suspect that is a big part of this.

Let's assess again…

What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living.

In everyday living basically nothing has changed. Things roll along with periods of feeling like I get it and periods of intense frustration and stuckness.

What changes?

Only that which comes and goes, images, smells, sensations, tastes, sounds and thoughts.

What stays the same?

Seeing, feeling, tasting, hearing and thought.

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?

I feel more confident now that I have access to direct looking, though the fact I’m writing this message must mean there is a possibility that my idea of direct looking, is to produce the correct answer but not actually by doing the work.

Is seeking still going on?

Seeking is still going on full gas. When I investigate I can’t find the seeker, as it’s clearly illusory but the seeking doesn’t stop, so I look again and can’t find the seeker …..

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

There is confusion but I don’t know what ask, otherwise there wouldn’t be confusion ;)

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

More like a big fat NO ;)

Logically before we started, and with your guidance it is very clear that the separate self is an illusion. It seems to me though that in order for the illusion to be fully seen through, that knowing would have to be your experience the whole time and that is definitely not my experience.

When the “I” has been seen through, fully and completely, what's left?

For it reappear in another guise.

Do you have anything to add about this investigation? Just write down anything that is you want to address.

I really don’t know what to say. I’m not saying in any shape or form that there is a problem or anything is wrong. There is not and all is well.

To try and ask a serious question for you or to other guides. Is it possible that for some people in the LU process, if you prove on a certain level that the understanding is good, then the best thing is just to go and live your life and see what happens, or is the best thing always to keep looking together, until the person knows without doubt they are through the gate?

I'm here to help.

Thanks Adam, your time and assistance is greatly appreciated!!


Best regards,

Nick

What is that which sees thoughts as just thoughts?

That is a good question. Can only be another thought - turtles all the way down!

Thanks for sharing Ilona’s excellent Falling video, I will need to watch that a few times.

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Thanks for sharing your doubts and expectations. Let's keep going.

I’m really struggling to think anything like that could have happened here and it not be obvious, although like I said the other day, something here has a big fantasy going on about how this will happen and I suspect that is a big part of this.

The illusion does not disappear only because it is seen that it is an illusion. You've seen the Kanizsa triangle. You can see it both ways - or in an infinite amount of ways. But the truth stays the same - there is no actual thing that's separate there.
Or think of it as a mirage in the desert. It doesn't disappear just because you see it - you just see it for what it is, as it is.

When it's seen it may be anticlimactic.
It may come as quite a shock that it's just this.
The seeker wants the big bang, the definitive dissolution into what exactly? What is supposed to be different than what is?
Isn't that all a big fat story piled on top of what is simply happening right now?

But once you know that there is no Santa you don't go and check every Santa in the mall if his beard is false - you just know it's not actual Santa, and you can't be fooled.

Simply look in DE, whenever you remember, see how it all is just happening, without a doer, believer, seeker, seer, witness. Continue the labeling exercise - it's not just an intellectual thing. When you actually look - you look. The writing of the report is intellectual but that is secondary. Go through each of these "senses" and actually experience what is. Report is obviously written from memory. But the actual looking must be LOOKING.

And is there an actual self anywhere there?
Are there any entities at all? In yourself, in others?

Things roll along with periods of feeling like I get it and periods of intense frustration and stuckness.

Sure, this can continue for some time. That's why you continue to actively look through all the doubts, expectations, fears, and frustrations that come. Continue to look at what actually is.

What is actually here now and verifiable?

The self is an assumption.
The seeming "dissolution of self" or a "total game changer" is also an assumption.
What remains?

Seeking is still going on full gas. When I investigate I can’t find the seeker, as it’s clearly illusory but the seeking doesn’t stop, so I look again and can’t find the seeker …..

Is there an actual source of seeking, or just seeking?
Can seeking happen without a seeker?

It seems to me though that in order for the illusion to be fully seen through, that knowing would have to be your experience the whole time and that is definitely not my experience.

"It seems to me" says a lot about the underlying assumption. Look at this assumption. All after that is a story that you've been conditioned to believe. Verify for yourself. Look for yourself.

Isn''t that just another expectation that arises and vanishes in the moment? Seeing won't necessarily be 24/7. It's not the point. It's a never-ending process of old beliefs being examined and directly experiencing all that is. It won't make you special at all - it will just expose the nonexistence of a separate self.

For it reappear in another guise.

What reappears?
You assume self - then prove the self. Prove to yourself the actual existence of self.
How does it reappear then? What happens when it reappears? What is reappearing?

The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity.
Is it really continuous?
Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?

When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.” Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

Is it possible that for some people in the LU process, if you prove on a certain level that the understanding is good, then the best thing is just to go and live your life and see what happens, or is the best thing always to keep looking together, until the person knows without doubt they are through the gate?

We will continue to look until you see. We don't have to stop anything until you feel ready. No rush, no worries. Just look.

Try to do a list of expectations of what it would entail to actually see through the gateless gate.
Also - write a list of things you are afraid WON'T happen.
What do you want to happen?
What do you want NOT to happen?
What will happen when the illusion is seen through?

Just write it down. It may be quite enlightening to you. You can share it if you want, or don't. But do the exercise.

Keep going,
You got this.

Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Thanks Adam,

Here are the expectations, I have to go to work now but will try and reply to the rest at some point later today.

Try to do a list of expectations of what it would entail to actually see through the gateless gate.

Something in the question is triggering, like it’s a trick as the understanding is the gateless gate cannot be seen through, it can only be seen never to have existed.

Anyways the list is:
Letting go.
Dropping of all beliefs in, and that come from the constructed self.
Seeing only what is.

Also - write a list of things you are afraid WON'T happen.

Whether it matters or not, I’m not afraid of anything not happening.

What do you want to happen?

To know beyond doubt that I am through. A knowing that the mind and thoughts cannot touch.

What do you want NOT to happen?

To carry on as is.

What will happen when the illusion is seen through?

Stuckness in the form it currently exists will ease and the body will relax. To what degree I don’t know but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to hope I would be able at least to notice it.

[NoMansLand]

Nick,
Expectations and doubt are the two sides of that coin - if there are expectations there is doubt. And vice versa.
Whose are these expectations?
What/who is responsible for solving them?
Just be honest with what comes up as an answer. Is there an expect-er? Is there a solver?

Anyways the list is:
Letting go.
Dropping of all beliefs in, and that come from the constructed self.
Seeing only what is.

Expectations are the biggest obstacles to seeing this moment as it is.

They are the shoulds and should nots, the wants and don’t wants - how the present moment should or should not be.
These thoughts have a pull, and once they arrive they have the power to create a bigger story and—puff! The peace is lost.

Ironically, peace, letting go, seeing what is ... happen once these expectations are seen as empty thoughts, just like any other.

What could possibly cross the gate?
What could get enlightened - thoughts?
What is outside of experience and wants to let go of thoughts?

Notice what is underneath all these expectations. That peace is already here and now. It's not found in the future.

A knowing that the mind and thoughts cannot touch.

Exactly. See this statement for what it is.
You still try to intellect your way through the gate. It's just not gonna happen. Thoughts and mind don't cross the gate.
What is that crosses the gate?

Stuckness in the form it currently exists will ease and the body will relax. To what degree I don’t know but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to hope I would be able at least to notice it.

You mention the stuckness. Please describe what you mean by that. Is it a thought "I am stuck", is it a feeling in a body, or is it some visual phenomenon? Just describe it for what it is. Feel it for what it is.

I await the rest of the responses. Just go slowly through all of them. Don't rush, but honestly DIRECTLY investigate what is.

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

Or think of it as a mirage in the desert. It doesn't disappear just because you see it - you just see it for what it is, as it is.

Fair do’s I vibe more with this one more being that it’s from nature.

When it's seen it may be anticlimactic.
It may come as quite a shock that it's just this.

This is interesting. It makes me wander what, if anything has been seen here. If it were to be the case that I have seen what all the non duality videos I watch are pointing to, then I have no concept what they are talking about as it doesn’t seem possible it’s the same thing. They are talking about looking at “things” and knowing they are that thing. When we did the exercises I can’t find a boundary to what I am but the “seeing” that I am the same as everything, oneness, is 100% conceptual here.

The seeker wants the big bang, the definitive dissolution into what exactly?

Yes this is where it’s tricky. It seems pretty obvious that it can never get what it wants, as the seeker doesn’t “make” the journey. Therefore it seems utterly pointless trying to try and figure out what the seeker wants.

What is supposed to be different than what is?

Nothing, it is not possible.

Isn't that all a big fat story piled on top of what is simply happening right now?

Those pesky turtles!

Simply look in DE, whenever you remember, see how it all is just happening, without a doer, believer, seeker, seer, witness.

Yes, this is what I try to do. See next reply.

Report is obviously written from memory. But the actual looking must be LOOKING.

So can I stop writing the report with each response? That is the part that causes issues and overthinking.

And is there an actual self anywhere there?

I didn’t find it yet. Should I keep looking? I suppose I haven’t been looking like I was initially as we’ve agreed it can’t be found. But maybe until it is seen beyond doubt I should still be looking?

Are there any entities at all? In yourself, in others?

Same reply as above.

Things roll along with periods of feeling like I get it and periods of intense frustration and stuckness.
Sure, this can continue for some time. That's why you continue to actively look through all the doubts, expectations, fears, and frustrations that come. Continue to look at what actually is.

I here you. The thing is when when these things are at play the system locks downs. When the mist clears I just let it be instead of getting in the head again trying to figure out what happened. I will endeavor to keep working through this.

What is actually here now and verifiable?

Seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thoughts.

The self is an assumption.

Yes.

The seeming "dissolution of self" or a "total game changer" is also an assumption.

OK.

What remains?

Seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thoughts.

Is there an actual source of seeking, or just seeking?

Yes, having not found a seeker, it must be that it is just seeking.

Can seeking happen without a seeker?

Hmmm. I said yes but now I’m thinking no. I suppose if the seeker is an illusion, the seeking must be too.

It seems to me though that in order for the illusion to be fully seen through, that knowing would have to be your experience the whole time and that is definitely not my experience.
"It seems to me" says a lot about the underlying assumption. Look at this assumption. All after that is a story that you've been conditioned to believe. Verify for
yourself. Look for yourself.

I should stop using that word but yesterday was a concession in order not to speak about something I don’t have personal experience of. It’s trying to say the same as your Santa Claus example. If the illusion is properly seen through then it must remain your experience the whole time, “one look and you’re done”.

Isn't that just another expectation that arises and vanishes in the moment?

Seems like a statement of fact to me, but it is also just another expectation that arises and vanishes in the moment.

It won't make you special at all - it will just expose the nonexistence of a separate self.

I’m already special, a special kind of stupid! Which is handy as it’s enabling me to laugh my way through this process ;) I know full well it won’t make me special, and if there is any expectation along those lines it would be the polar opposite of special.

For it reappear in another guise.
What reappears?

The unseen belief, the unseen conditioning, the pretense of being of being a separate self.

You assume self - then prove the self. Prove to yourself the actual existence of self.

I will keep looking.

How does it reappear then?

I don’t know. Could it be a feeling in the body? That then triggers a thought?

What happens when it reappears?

Stuckness, frustration, anger.

What is reappearing?

Thoughts and sensations.

The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity.
Is it really continuous?

No. Things are funky at times and hard to piece together. Continuous it is not.

Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?

Yes this!

When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.” Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

Haven’t found it yet but I’ll keep looking.

We will continue to look until you see. We don't have to stop anything until you feel ready. No rush, no worries. Just look.

Awesome, thanks!!!


Thanks for the stuff in expectations, I shall reply to that when I’m up and about in the morning.

Best regards,

Nick

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

Expectations and doubt are the two sides of that coin - if there are expectations there is doubt. And vice versa.

This may well be true but I can’t relate to it at all.

Whose are these expectations?

The expectations feel like they are mine, from what feels most like “me”. My expectations feel natural, logical, reasoned and intuitive. The doubts feel the opposite, unnatural like they are not from me, rather from something that is trying to sabotage me.

What/who is responsible for solving them?

Me. The one who has the expectations (the plan) is responsible for sorting out the doubts (the not me).

Just be honest with what comes up as an answer.

I was and I hope this makes sense to you and gives us something to work with.

Is there an expect-er?

Don’t think so.

Is there a solver?

Ahhh. My snap answer was going to be it feels like the me part, but it appears with our work that the solver cannot be found so all that’s there is the illusion of solving.

Expectations are the biggest obstacles to seeing this moment as it is.

I trust that what you are saying is true. It seems these expectations are outside of the part you have been reasoning with up to this point.

They are the shoulds and should nots, the wants and don’t wants - how the present moment should or should not be.

Yes, this makes sense.

These thoughts have a pull, and once they arrive they have the power to create a bigger story and—puff! The peace is lost.

From what I wrote at the start, reading that expectations have a “pull” would make perfect sense of why my answers are likely wrong.

Ironically, peace, letting go, seeing what is ... happen once these expectations are seen as empty thoughts, just like any other.

Roger that. This appears like it could be the first big unseen belief that what we’ve got to? I had been thinking that we have found a few before but now they just seem like things you have pointed out. A belief has to be something I’m convinced I’m right about but am proved wrong about.

What could possibly cross the gate?

Nothing. I have heard it said in so many ways that all say its not possible. How could something be crossed, that all explorers describe as not being there.

What could get enlightened - thoughts?

They wish ;) Enlightenment is a strange word that I don’t really resonate with.

What is outside of experience and wants to let go of thoughts?

Nothing. Only thoughts want to “let go” of thoughts.

Notice what is underneath all these expectations. That peace is already here and now. It's not found in the future.

Not always easy to see, but I get this.

You still try to intellect your way through the gate. It's just not gonna happen. Thoughts and mind don't cross the gate.

LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS! Something here doesn’t hear so good - I’ve always referred to it as being wooden headed, which I probably shouldn’t use as it’s not the dictionary definition (stupid). What I mean, is that sense of being strong willed and wiling to stand up for what is right at any cost. It is what makes this life difficult at times, being that uncompromising but it is also the thing that gave me the best days of my “life”. The days that were so fulfilling, that I suspect they could never be matched, and certainly they are far out of reach of any description of enlightenment that I’ve heard.

I’m not intentionally trying to intellect my way through the gate. I’m trying the only way I know how to get this done. Granted that clearly isn’t going to work, as the “I” that I’m taking myself to be doesn’t exist.

What is that crosses the gate?

Misunderstandings, at which point they vanish.

You mention the stuckness. Please describe what you mean by that.

It is what the kids refer to nowadays as “coping hard”. I refer to it as malfunctioning but I think I’m alone in that. It’s what your computer does when it freezes and no matter how hard you smash those buttons, nothing works. It’s apparently what happens when intellectualising your way through life fails and “you” are all out of ideas.

Is it a thought "I am stuck", is it a feeling in a body, or is it some visual phenomenon? Just describe it for what it is. Feel it for what it is.

I don’t know. When the road got rocky a few years back a question came that never left, as it’s not been answered, “What do you do, when you don’t know what to do?”. That is stuckness. It’s a thought, or it’s a feeling in the body. One must come first but which one I’m not sure.

Just go slowly through all of them. Don't rush, but honestly DIRECTLY investigate what is.

I’m not sure what I’ve produced here. This could be complete nonsense from the mind, or an insight for the guiding as to where the sticking points are. Let’s see.

Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,

They are talking about looking at “things” and knowing they are that thing. When we did the exercises I can’t find a boundary to what I am but the “seeing” that I am the same as everything, oneness, is 100% conceptual here.

People like stories, and like to mythologize, which is fine, but it doesn't help with seeing what actually is. The carrot is for the ego to latch onto. You don't get any carrots in the end, because who would be actually getting it? Nick? Me? Who exactly?Ach, and here it comes. It's an expectation.

But that would imply that there is something beyond seeing. Can you experience something beyond seeing? Like, very materialistically, intellectually even. You are seeing. Is there one, two, or other? Or is it just seeing?
Look at what is. Can you conceptualize seeing? Can you conceptualize what is?
Or is it just a story that "it must be 100% conceptual here since X condition"?
Where are these conditions? Do they belong anywhere, or are they completely, 100% a product of thought?

Yes this is where it’s tricky. It seems pretty obvious that it can never get what it wants, as the seeker doesn’t “make” the journey. Therefore it seems utterly pointless trying to try and figure out what the seeker wants.

Oh absolutely. It will never get it. Because there is no seeker to begin with. So just give up.
But who is doing the giving up? It's not that tricky. It's just a matter of looking at what is seeking made of.
What is seeking made of? Can you actually experience seeking in DE?

So can I stop writing the report with each response? That is the part that causes issues and overthinking.

This exercise is for you to anchor looking into direct experience as a baseline. Seeing how there is this label attached to bare sensations. That's the objective. I'd suggest you stick with it. IF there is anything you want me to clarify with that - just ask. Or go back to the original instructions and see what it is all about.

I here you. The thing is when when these things are at play the system locks downs. When the mist clears I just let it be instead of getting in the head again trying to figure out what happened. I will endeavor to keep working through this.

Is it possible it's just a story that you can perceive as a story in the moment?
Try catching it next time it arises and seeing that for what it is.

If the illusion is properly seen through then it must remain your experience the whole time, “one look and you’re done”.

Yes, but the stories will continue to arise. If you expect that they won't - you're just having expectations that are unrealistic. It's part of the whole game I suppose, it's endless conditions. It just allows you to see stories as stories.

I’m already special, a special kind of stupid! Which is handy as it’s enabling me to laugh my way through this process ;) I know full well it won’t make me special, and if there is any expectation along those lines it would be the polar opposite of special.

No, you're doing great. It's all natural. Just keep looking.

The unseen belief, the unseen conditioning, the pretense of being of being a separate self.

So can you directly experience and verify the existence of "unseen beliefs" or "unseen conditioning"?
Can you actually experience that RIGHT now?
Look.

I don’t know. Could it be a feeling in the body? That then triggers a thought?

Ok cool. Describe the feeling then. Verify the feeling. What is it?

Stuckness, frustration, anger.

And what are these right here and now in this moment? Use DE to investigate. Only what you can verify for sure. Right now. No memory.

Haven’t found it yet but I’ll keep looking.

Because you won't find it! That's the whole thing. You can keep looking for the thing, but it's just not there. And that's why you must continue to look in DE. Paradoxically. Until you just realize this is completely pointless. :)
Look for the separate self right now. WHERE is it?

The expectations feel like they are mine, from what feels most like “me”. My expectations feel natural, logical, reasoned and intuitive. The doubts feel the opposite, unnatural like they are not from me, rather from something that is trying to sabotage me.

Describe how you specifically think these expectations.
Do you go to a special folder to retrieve them - are they on a shelf named "expectations"?
What exactly makes them yours?
And doubts, not yours?
Are there two thinkers?

These are not trick questions. Just look at this. It's important.

Me. The one who has the expectations (the plan) is responsible for sorting out the doubts (the not me).

What's that "me" and "not me" you mention?
Verify all these assumptions.
Isn't that creating entities out of thin air?
What is that but content of a thought that arises in the moment? Is it anything but a story?

They wish ;) Enlightenment is a strange word that I don’t really resonate with.

What do you resonate with then?

Nothing. Only thoughts want to “let go” of thoughts.

And can thoughts do anything? Control anything? Influence anything?

I’m not intentionally trying to intellect my way through the gate. I’m trying the only way I know how to get this done. Granted that clearly isn’t going to work, as the “I” that I’m taking myself to be doesn’t exist.

That would imply you control intentions. But have you ever controlled a single intention that raised?
Can you forsee next intention? Or remember 5 intentions ago?
Is there any control over intentions at all? Was there ever?

I don’t know. When the road got rocky a few years back a question came that never left, as it’s not been answered, “What do you do, when you don’t know what to do?”. That is stuckness. It’s a thought, or it’s a feeling in the body. One must come first but which one I’m not sure.

Describe the feeling then. Next time you feel "stuck".
See if it's not just some story that arises, and vanishes. And then another thought says" Oh it's stuckness, so I must be stuck". Is there an actual experienced connection between a thought and a feeling, or are they completely separate parts of experience that arise in the moment?

I’m not sure what I’ve produced here. This could be complete nonsense from the mind, or an insight for the guiding as to where the sticking points are. Let’s see.

You're doing great. Continue to see content of thoughts as content of thoughts and nothing else.
Whenever you get a new thought that will spiral you out from looking just note it's "content". And all content is irrelevant at all to seeing what is.

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hey Adam,

But that would imply that there is something beyond seeing. Can you experience something beyond seeing?

No

You are seeing. Is there one, two, or other? Or is it just seeing?

It’s just seeing.

Look at what is. Can you conceptualize seeing?

No, it is simply seeing.

Can you conceptualize what is?

No. What is, is simply what is.

Or is it just a story that "it must be 100% conceptual here since X condition"?

Just a story.

Where are these conditions? Do they belong anywhere, or are they completely, 100% a product of thought?

Just thought.

Oh absolutely. It will never get it. Because there is no seeker to begin with. So just give up.

Yes. This has been highlighted in the last few messages with the utter nonsense that has been written; there clearly can't be a seeker. Writing replies was done on behalf of thoughts claiming to be the real me, the true seeker, but that has once again been seen through.

But who is doing the giving up? It's not that tricky. It's just a matter of looking at what is seeking made of.

Yes. It’s just thoughts making a big deal of all this.

What is seeking made of? Can you actually experience seeking in DE?

Just thoughts giving illusion of seeking. No seeking can be found in DE.

This exercise is for you to anchor looking into direct experience as a baseline. I'd suggest you stick with it.

No problem. Many thoughts the past few days giving the illusion of a separate self that needed to fix some things, in order to make it better for itself.This request was part of the hostage negotiations.

Is it possible it's just a story that you can perceive as a story in the moment?

Yes.

Try catching it next time it arises and seeing that for what it is.

Will do.

Yes, but the stories will continue to arise. If you expect that they won't - you're just having expectations that are unrealistic.

Yes. What was written was on behalf of a thought, so it must be false.

No, you're doing great. It's all natural. Just keep looking.

Yep, that was just thoughts commenting on their personalities. Comical.

So can you directly experience and verify the existence of "unseen beliefs" or "unseen conditioning"?
Can you actually experience that RIGHT now?

No. They were just thoughts saying that, and I didn’t look at DE before regurgitating what they said.

I don’t know. Could it be a feeling in the body? That then triggers a thought?
Ok cool. Describe the feeling then. Verify the feeling. What is it?

Sensations.

Stuckness, frustration, anger.
And what are these right here and now in this moment? Use DE to investigate. Only what you can verify for sure. Right now. No memory.

Simply thoughts.

Haven’t found it yet but I’ll keep looking.
Because you won't find it! That's the whole thing. You can keep looking for the thing, but it's just not there. And that's why you must continue to look in DE. Paradoxically. Until you just realize this is completely pointless. :)

I think I used “looking” as you had said “When we look very closely” but it doesn’t read well after I’d started by saying “I haven’t found it yet”. Clarification always good so thx!

Look for the separate self right now. WHERE is it?

I don’t find it. Only thoughts about “it”.

Describe how you specifically think these expectations.
Do you go to a special folder to retrieve them - are they on a shelf named "expectations"?

No.

What exactly makes them yours?

They are not. Was just trying to find the right words to explain how that rubbish was written but there is simply nothing to say.

And doubts, not yours?

No doubts, no doubter, outside of thoughts.

Are there two thinkers?

Infinite but they are only thoughts.

Me. The one who has the expectations (the plan) is responsible for sorting out the doubts (the not me).
What's that "me" and "not me" you mention?

A thought and a thought.

Isn't that creating entities out of thin air?

At best.

What is that but content of a thought that arises in the moment? Is it anything but a story?

Yes simply a thought, which is simply a story.

They wish ;) Enlightenment is a strange word that I don’t really resonate with.
What do you resonate with then?

It doesn’t matter. It’s just a word and can only be replaced by another word, and it was only a thought claiming not to like it.

Nothing. Only thoughts want to “let go” of thoughts.
And can thoughts do anything?

Only tell a story.

Control anything? Influence anything?

Not even the next thought.

That would imply you control intentions. But have you ever controlled a single intention that raised?

Batting zero. No controller and nothing to control.

Can you forsee next intention? Or remember 5 intentions ago?

Not possible.

Is there any control over intentions at all? Was there ever?

No. Never.

Describe the feeling then. Next time you feel "stuck".

This stuckness is complete and utter guff. “Stuckness” is just a thought that says “I’m stuck”. There is nothing that is or could ever be stuck.

See if it's not just some story that arises, and vanishes.
And then another thought says" Oh it's stuckness, so I must be stuck".

YES THIS!

Is there an actual experienced connection between a thought and a feeling, or are they completely separate parts of experience that arise in the moment?

Hmmmmm. Never pondered that one. I’ve only recently started being interested in talk of feelings in the body and had assumed people were saying one produced the other.

You're doing great. Continue to see content of thoughts as content of thoughts and nothing else.

Wild few days swimming in a sea of turtles, but more clarity now the stories have been told and exposed for what they are - just stories.

Whenever you get a new thought that will spiral you out from looking just note it's "content". And all content is irrelevant at all to seeing what is.

Loud and clear. I’m off tomorrow and will sit down and go back through the whole thread as I’m sure things were said that will make more sense when read again.

Have a good day.

Best regards,

Nick

[RhinoSpirit]

Whooooops, forgot to add this for today.

Labelling Exercise
Paddleboarding
Seeing seagull fly over, simply= image/color
Smelling seaweed on beach, simply = smell
Feeling feet against the board, simply = sensation
Tasting salt on lips, simply = taste
Hearing dogs barking, simply = sound
Thought about daydreaming, simply = thought

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Excuse the delay! You're doing fantastic, just some clarifications below.

Yes. This has been highlighted in the last few messages with the utter nonsense that has been written; there clearly can't be a seeker. Writing replies was done on behalf of thoughts claiming to be the real me, the true seeker, but that has once again been seen through.

Do you know for sure that writing is done on behalf of thoughts?
Or is it that writing happens, and thoughts also happen, and they never, ever touch or cause each other in DE?
What is actually true in DE?
Do ANYTHING happen on behalf of thoughts in DE?

Yes. It’s just thoughts making a big deal of all this.

Is it just the language, or is it actually making an entity out of thoughts?
Is it a thought that actually DOES/THINK "I am making a big deal"?
Or is it just a thought with a label/commentary "I am making a big deal"?
What I mean is - is it an actual CAUSE of the action, or is thought a action-taker, or is it SIMPLY just a thought arising with some content? Is there an ownership of thinking by a THOUGHT? Or is it still just thinking?

Is there an actual experienced connection between a thought and a feeling, or are they completely separate parts of experience that arise in the moment?
Hmmmmm. Never pondered that one. I’ve only recently started being interested in talk of feelings in the body and had assumed people were saying one produced the other.

Maybe let me clarify...
Are they really separate things - feelings and thoughts?
Does experience have parts?
Do you see dividing lines between thinking and feeling?
Do thinking cause feeling and vice versa in DE?

Maybe this time exercise will give you some insight into that:

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Wild few days swimming in a sea of turtles, but more clarity now the stories have been told and exposed for what they are - just stories.

Yes! That's it! Continue to look!!!

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

No delay, all good :)

Do you know for sure that writing is done on behalf of thoughts?

No. Just a habit to talk as if there is a me.

Or is it that writing happens, and thoughts also happen, and they never, ever touch or cause each other in DE?

Because of the content of thoughts before writing took place, it was not seen at the time but writing just happened.

What is actually true in DE?

There is no doer, only doing.

Do ANYTHING happen on behalf of thoughts in DE?

It is not possible.

“Yes. It’s just thoughts making a big deal of all this.”
Is it just the language, or is it actually making an entity out of thoughts?

It’s just the language. No entity can be found in DE.

Is it a thought that actually DOES/THINK "I am making a big deal"?

There isn’t even any thinking. Just the language of thoughts that gives that illusion.

Or is it just a thought with a label/commentary "I am making a big deal"?
What I mean is - is it an actual CAUSE of the action, or is thought a action-taker, or is it SIMPLY just a thought arising with some content?

Yes this.

Is there an ownership of thinking by a THOUGHT?

Am implied ownership due to language but that is not possible.

Or is it still just thinking?

Just thinking.

Is there an actual experienced connection between a thought and a feeling, or are they completely separate parts of experience that arise in the moment?

I think I realized this last night, that trying to figure out whether the thought or feeling came first is a waste of time. If that could be figured out then it would be immediately obvious looking at DE, which it’s not.

Are they really separate things - feelings and thoughts?

No, but I don’t see why yet if that’s even possible to see?

Does experience have parts?

This seems like it should answer it - wow that was quick!! ;)

Do you see dividing lines between thinking and feeling?

I don’t.

Do thinking cause feeling and vice versa in DE?

Huh, no they don’t.

Maybe this time exercise will give you some insight into that:
But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Nope.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Nothing separate.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

Not in DE.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Haha, it’s not moving.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

Not possible.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Timeless.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

No start. No end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

It doesn’t.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Thoughts.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Just thoughts.

Yes! That's it! Continue to look!!!

Will do!

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Great job. I had some delay again, pardon. I am going on a holiday 14-23 and I might be a little late with responses but I'll try to check it up if I get a chance.

How are you feeling in your day-to-day moment now?
How is looking into what is? Do you see any difference between before we started the investigation and right now?
What about doubt?
What about the frustration?
What about 'self'?

Is there anything you'd like - anything you still need to investigate?

I'd like you to go into nature one more time and do this exercise.
Spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.
Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself.
If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?
Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hi Adam,

How are you feeling in your day-to-day moment now?

All is well. It’s becoming Increasingly apparent that there is no “me” of any description that can, or could ever have chosen to do anything, though it is much easier to see looking back. No big moment, just starting to notice that thought arise more often. It is still just a thought but maybe not all thoughts are bad ;)

How is looking into what is?

Getting more intuitive.

Do you see any difference between before we started the investigation and right now?

This realization mentioned above is very different to the intellectual understanding I had previously, which is what I said at the start that I felt there needed to some “shift” if I can call it that, to whatever this is.

What about doubt?

Doubts still come but are mostly seen for what they are. Now there is a more of an intuitive sense that there is no me, it’s easier to see doubts as simply thoughts and not to meddle with them.

What about the frustration?

Similar to above but more enjoyable in a way as it is easier to see through. Frustration feels more external (body than inside head) as it can come with verbal outbursts or physical movements, so it’s easier to laugh it off being that it’s more obvious how silly it is.

What about 'self'?

The constructed self “seems” to be dropping away. I’ve used the banned word as I can’t prove it in direct experience as it can’t be found. It’s just used to tell a story.

Is there anything you'd like - anything you still need to investigate?

No. It has finally started to sink in that nothing needs to happen, so trying to make up questions to ask doesn’t feel necessary and nothing comes to mind that I feel
I need answers to.

I'd like you to go into nature one more time and do this exercise.
If yes, where is the boundary?

No boundary.

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

No just life itself.

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

No.

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

No.

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Yes, it’s not separate.

Is there anything which is not just happening?

No, it is as it is.

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

Just seeing, smelling, feeling, tasting, hearing and thoughts. No boundaries and nothing separate. Just what is.

Labelling Exercise
Potting seedlings
Seeing a seagul drinking out the window, simply= image/color
Smelling the soil, simply = smell
Feeling the tiny plants between fingers, simply = sensation
Tasting coffee, simply = taste
Hearing rain on the window, simply = sound
Thought about being late for work, simply = thought.

No need to reply when you’re on your hols, go enjoy yourself. Hope you have an awesome time!

Best regards,

Nick

[NoMansLand]

Hi Nick,
Thanks! We’re having a blast here.

I’m happy to hear looking is settling.
How were the last few days? Any changes?
Do you feel ready for final questions?

Best,
Adam

[RhinoSpirit]

Hey Adam,

Great to hear you are enjoying yourselves!

All is well here and remembering to look at direct experience is happening more and more.

Yes, I’m ready for the final questions. I don’t have anymore questions to ask, as anything I could ask is seen to be irrelevant ;)

Best regards,

Nick