Yes, a hyperbole.
Apologies if it confused you.
Demanding precision is fine with me.
As per your question, I have no opinion. I simply don't know.
That said, I am not going to enter into any further discussion of AI or any other unrelated subjects.
Looking forward to receiving your replies to questions that matter, if you don't mind. 🙂🙂🙂
Oneness
Re: Oneness
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
It didn't confuse me.
Your statement was very clear and precise. But now I understand that you didn't really meant what you said,
that it was just an hyperbole.
I'm sorry my questions about AI rubbed you the wrong way, but I just remind you that I didn't bring
AI in our conversation :) nor I made such a bold statement about it...
Now you say you in fact don't have an opinion about that, and that's fine by me.
But I would love to discuss it with you or with whoever here at LU wants to discuss
this AI topic, because, given the times, but not only, I think it's a very interesting
and almost crucial topic. A topic about humans, no-self, and AI.
Going back to your questions. I think in the meantime we discussed almost all of them.
There are just two left.
The first one you quote I don't think is was taken from my post. This one:
took it from someone's else reply?
Your second question is this:
It's a vast and complex subject, but I'll try to be as clear as I possibly can.
What we call time, a succession of moments, a sort of movement that produce change, in nature,
so also in the flesh of the body, in the cells, as in the life of a planet, of a galaxy, is a fact.
The cells of a body are under the influence of a movement of succession of moments, time,
and so they change, becomes old and die. A tree as well and so on.
The brain too of course goes through the same process, as part of the body is subjected to time.
The mind is something else, still so mysterious. Is it the mind inside the brain?
Is the brain just an antenna in tune with what we call mind, that is "infinite" and placed nowhere and everywhere?
Whatever the answer is it's not important. What is important is that in the mind, time, psychological time,
doesn't exist. It is instead just another illusory product of the non-existent self, of the thoughts.
It's strongly attached to thoughts.
In reality what actual exists, psychologically, is just this moment, right now.
And this moment doesn't have a time, it's not related to time as we understand time.
This moment is pure stillness, it's not a succession of moments, as actual "external" time is.
There is no actual inner time, there is not a succession of anything.
This moment, the now is perfectly still.
When still under the illusion of the non existent separate self, we are submerged by thoughts,
we live by them, we follow them, we receive them and we react to them.
Thoughts are inherently connected to the idea of time, that instead exist only outwardly.
Thoughts "produce" the illusion of inner time because they are always concerned
about what I did or what happened one second or minute or a day or a year ago. So about the past.
And about what I will do or it will happen in one second, one minute, a day or year from now. So about the future.
These illusory creation of time literally push and pull inside of us, giving us the illusion
of a time to which our inner reality, our awareness, our being feels attached to.
Thoughts are endlessly preoccupied about the past and the future, they are
never in the now, they just cannot survive in the now, the now it's against their illusory nature.
Even beyond the concern of a single though, the very nature of a thought, that
is a sequence of words expressing something, is so directly attached to time.
Because it takes some time for a thought to express itself. To formulate a meaning.
If its a second, or 10 seconds, it is still time.
To the word "time", the thoughts attach always a worry, a concern, directly related to the fear of dying, of not being productive enough, so of being fragile and exposed again to the possibility of death and so on...
In absolute absence of thoughts, meaning when there is absolutely no thoughts crossing the mind,
psychological time doesn't exist. "inside" there is only the now.
In relative absence of thoughts, meaning when thoughts cross the mind, but there is the full awareness of them,
the recognizing of them as just thoughts, illusions, even if somehow they seem to be there they don't affect the awareness in any way, they are not able to form an illusory self, they just pass by, they appear and disappear in front of the awareness "inner gaze" .
The awareness is free from their power, from their grasp, from the illusion of the self they try to form.
the ever present awareness see through their illusion.
In both these two states I've just described, inner time doesn't exist.
When I say that sometimes I can still feel a feeling of inner time, its because sometimes for few instants or seconds,
thoughts appear and can rapidly form a very weak, ghostly like, transparent and almost invisible illusion of something there... with these thoughts and the something they form, that it's not even still being able to create a faint illusion of self, comes also some feeling of inner time. But as soon " I " see those thoughts, and their attempt, they disappear, and with them the feeling of inner time they bring.
When I make a distinction between inner and outer time. It's just because even when outer time goes on, if we are
in the now, time for our awareness is absolutely meaningless. We can witness the seasons passing, but we won't even call it time, it's just the movement of life, a never-stopping changing, transformation.
When I say that in the now inner time doesn't exist, I don't mean that there is no movement. In absolute stillness
there is movement, there is the most lively movement of life, but it's not the movement of time, it's not the movement of succession of moments, it's not the same movement of cells getting older, or the sun setting, it's something else that is impossible to give it a name to.
As I said it's a very fascinating rich and complex topic.
I hope I was clear enough in my exposition of it :)
Your statement was very clear and precise. But now I understand that you didn't really meant what you said,
that it was just an hyperbole.
I'm sorry my questions about AI rubbed you the wrong way, but I just remind you that I didn't bring
AI in our conversation :) nor I made such a bold statement about it...
Now you say you in fact don't have an opinion about that, and that's fine by me.
But I would love to discuss it with you or with whoever here at LU wants to discuss
this AI topic, because, given the times, but not only, I think it's a very interesting
and almost crucial topic. A topic about humans, no-self, and AI.
Going back to your questions. I think in the meantime we discussed almost all of them.
There are just two left.
The first one you quote I don't think is was taken from my post. This one:
I guess you're probably having conversation with multiple people at the same time, and you…being aware of the non-existence of the self or not being aware…
took it from someone's else reply?
Your second question is this:
I don't know how knowledge do you have about the topic of psychological time vs "exterior" "actual" time.I do get it that when looked into, something disappears.
What I don’t get is this talk about the absolute now or being in presence not being absolute. My guess is you may be talking about some deep meditative state, but is this accurate? I have no way of knowing. See my point?
I also cannot grasp what you mean by “a fainted light feeling of time … felt inwardly”. If you were to break it down to bodily sensations or mental processes, what would it be? Otherwise, how can you convey to me what it is that you label in this way?
Can you see my point? I have no way of relating to what you're trying to convey when it sounds abstract. Abstractions are fine when discussing poetry or philosophy, but that's not what we are doing here.
It's a vast and complex subject, but I'll try to be as clear as I possibly can.
What we call time, a succession of moments, a sort of movement that produce change, in nature,
so also in the flesh of the body, in the cells, as in the life of a planet, of a galaxy, is a fact.
The cells of a body are under the influence of a movement of succession of moments, time,
and so they change, becomes old and die. A tree as well and so on.
The brain too of course goes through the same process, as part of the body is subjected to time.
The mind is something else, still so mysterious. Is it the mind inside the brain?
Is the brain just an antenna in tune with what we call mind, that is "infinite" and placed nowhere and everywhere?
Whatever the answer is it's not important. What is important is that in the mind, time, psychological time,
doesn't exist. It is instead just another illusory product of the non-existent self, of the thoughts.
It's strongly attached to thoughts.
In reality what actual exists, psychologically, is just this moment, right now.
And this moment doesn't have a time, it's not related to time as we understand time.
This moment is pure stillness, it's not a succession of moments, as actual "external" time is.
There is no actual inner time, there is not a succession of anything.
This moment, the now is perfectly still.
When still under the illusion of the non existent separate self, we are submerged by thoughts,
we live by them, we follow them, we receive them and we react to them.
Thoughts are inherently connected to the idea of time, that instead exist only outwardly.
Thoughts "produce" the illusion of inner time because they are always concerned
about what I did or what happened one second or minute or a day or a year ago. So about the past.
And about what I will do or it will happen in one second, one minute, a day or year from now. So about the future.
These illusory creation of time literally push and pull inside of us, giving us the illusion
of a time to which our inner reality, our awareness, our being feels attached to.
Thoughts are endlessly preoccupied about the past and the future, they are
never in the now, they just cannot survive in the now, the now it's against their illusory nature.
Even beyond the concern of a single though, the very nature of a thought, that
is a sequence of words expressing something, is so directly attached to time.
Because it takes some time for a thought to express itself. To formulate a meaning.
If its a second, or 10 seconds, it is still time.
To the word "time", the thoughts attach always a worry, a concern, directly related to the fear of dying, of not being productive enough, so of being fragile and exposed again to the possibility of death and so on...
In absolute absence of thoughts, meaning when there is absolutely no thoughts crossing the mind,
psychological time doesn't exist. "inside" there is only the now.
In relative absence of thoughts, meaning when thoughts cross the mind, but there is the full awareness of them,
the recognizing of them as just thoughts, illusions, even if somehow they seem to be there they don't affect the awareness in any way, they are not able to form an illusory self, they just pass by, they appear and disappear in front of the awareness "inner gaze" .
The awareness is free from their power, from their grasp, from the illusion of the self they try to form.
the ever present awareness see through their illusion.
In both these two states I've just described, inner time doesn't exist.
When I say that sometimes I can still feel a feeling of inner time, its because sometimes for few instants or seconds,
thoughts appear and can rapidly form a very weak, ghostly like, transparent and almost invisible illusion of something there... with these thoughts and the something they form, that it's not even still being able to create a faint illusion of self, comes also some feeling of inner time. But as soon " I " see those thoughts, and their attempt, they disappear, and with them the feeling of inner time they bring.
When I make a distinction between inner and outer time. It's just because even when outer time goes on, if we are
in the now, time for our awareness is absolutely meaningless. We can witness the seasons passing, but we won't even call it time, it's just the movement of life, a never-stopping changing, transformation.
When I say that in the now inner time doesn't exist, I don't mean that there is no movement. In absolute stillness
there is movement, there is the most lively movement of life, but it's not the movement of time, it's not the movement of succession of moments, it's not the same movement of cells getting older, or the sun setting, it's something else that is impossible to give it a name to.
As I said it's a very fascinating rich and complex topic.
I hope I was clear enough in my exposition of it :)
Re: Oneness
Hello, Cristiano,
I appreciate your detailed exposition of how you view time.
As for the question-and-answer format of conversations held on this forum, I owe you an explanation. The way this forum works is that the task of guides is to ask questions, and the task of green members, like yourself, is to answer the questions as precisely and concisely as possible, from their own direct experience, without resorting to concepts, theories or acquired knowledge. When we refer to "direct experience", we mean sensory experience, more often than not overlaid with mental labels and interpretations coming from thought. That was why I asked you "to break it down to bodily sensations or mental processes".
Also, on this forum we do not debate theories, ideas, viewpoints, opinions, even though they tend to surface at times. There is nothing wrong with that, yet here they are but a distraction, and there are other spaces where such debates can be enjoyed.
To go back to the point, my other questions to you, of more general nature, remain unanswered.
When you said
I appreciate your detailed exposition of how you view time.
As for the question-and-answer format of conversations held on this forum, I owe you an explanation. The way this forum works is that the task of guides is to ask questions, and the task of green members, like yourself, is to answer the questions as precisely and concisely as possible, from their own direct experience, without resorting to concepts, theories or acquired knowledge. When we refer to "direct experience", we mean sensory experience, more often than not overlaid with mental labels and interpretations coming from thought. That was why I asked you "to break it down to bodily sensations or mental processes".
Also, on this forum we do not debate theories, ideas, viewpoints, opinions, even though they tend to surface at times. There is nothing wrong with that, yet here they are but a distraction, and there are other spaces where such debates can be enjoyed.
To go back to the point, my other questions to you, of more general nature, remain unanswered.
When you said
otherwise all would be the same, talking not talking, being not being, being on Lu or not, being aware of the non-existence of the self or not being aware,[/quote]
I responded with:
Please answer these questions when you're ready.From your experience, how are the two different?
Can you say how this has affected and is affecting your relationships?
Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about you, when they are there?
Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about people?
Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about challenging situations?
Can you say how it affects your relationship with life in general?
Please give examples from before the seeing through the separate self and after.
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
Hello Magdalena.
Thanks for explaining me the forum guidelines.
forum like this one...
I think that the difference is a very simple fact, I really don't know what
to add to the obvious evidence of their difference, to make it more clear.
Can two different colors become more different through any further explanation?
a communication through a forum, or just through emails.
There are always different ways of communication and meeting in my relationships,
that always involve at one point also a real life way of meeting.
in any situation. If these kind of thoughts or feeling very briefly arise they don't have the time to fully form or to become relevant. I look, I see them, and they disappear.
by video chat. So until then I really don't have thoughts and feelings about this person.
I put my evaluation in pause until I can at least have some meetings by video chat, and
after that in real life.
That said, in general I try to never put the word "conclusion" to any evaluation or feelings I can have or
feel about a human being, in any circumstance and after any amount of time spent knowing each other.
I try to stay always open.
In this contest I would like also to clarify that since my awakening I don't feel anymore
the feelings of anger, frustration, envy, possession, anxiety, lack or desire, and so on, in relation with any human being,
or any situation. The very faint appearance of the less dense of these feelings can maybe sometimes very briefly
cross my body or mind, but I look at them and they disappear almost instantly.
I believe that the complexity of a human being is beyond any possible
full "comprehension". As it's impossible to fully know any living creature, being a three or a planet.
I profoundly believe in love as the state and energy that underline everything.
This is not just something put in my mouth by the teachings of anyone, its what is clearly felt in my awareness.
What I call love has of course nothing to do with the love we associate with two people "loving each other"
or the love we can have for our family members, and so on. It has nothing to do with any form
or feeling of attachment.
It's impossible to describe the love I'm talking about in few words, or even in a thousands of books.
But allow me an attempt to summarize it as the full awareness of the reunion with the reality
of absolute and all comprehensive oneness with everything and everyone.
related to this topic.
Maybe this answer can be appropriate?:
Put aside practical totally harmless thoughts, like the ones about how to perform a particular technical or practical task;
since my full awakening, thoughts and feeling don't interfere or particularly affect "me" or my life in any circumstance,
difficult or easy. Or if they briefly arise, they surely disappear as quick as they arise, and they
never condition the course of my action in any given situation.
Allow me the use of a simplistic word: since I fully awakened
my relationship with life is fundamentally always the same, in any given circumstance.
desires, worrying and so on.
By the idea of being or not being "someone" and the relationship between the world and that "someone".
Governed by the idea of a future and a past, and all the feelings and thoughts that arise from that.
After seeing through the illusion of a separate self, every moment is filled with lively life, not related
to any particular event or happening. There is just life unfolding in front of "my" awareness.
I put "my" between quotes because it's not really mine, it's just awareness.
There is no more worry about anything, not even the faintest appearance of it. Because there is no more concern
about a future or a past one instant from now. The now fills every corner or "my" awareness.
There is the playing with this awareness, focusing it sometimes more to one single event happening in front of it.
For example the awareness of touching something, feeling the material pattern of it, observing it deeply,
being completely there with that moment. Or just observing with my eyes, the magnificent spectacle of
monumental clouds, of the succession of the hills in the sunset, of the sea in his infinite vastness and aliveness.
The constant feeling is just an inner continuous peace that is not fundamentally shaken by anything.
This underlying peace is often filled with joy and laughter and awe, sometimes produced just
by the mere observation of the disappearance of a thought that was trying to form, or to attempts
at creating something different than what is. It's sometimes hilarious and beautiful to
see thoughts disappearing in an instant without living any trace behind.
Or joy and laughter simply produced by life unfolding in front of "my" awareness. I'm lucky enough to live in the
middle of nature, and its incredibly rich and colorful complexity give a constant spectacle
of beauty to the awareness of being there, with it, observing it, feeling it, being a direct part of it.
I hope I answered your questions in a satisfactory way :)
Thanks for explaining me the forum guidelines.
You ask how a meeting between two persons in real life is different from a meeting through aFrom your experience, how are the two different?
forum like this one...
I think that the difference is a very simple fact, I really don't know what
to add to the obvious evidence of their difference, to make it more clear.
Can two different colors become more different through any further explanation?
It doesn't affect my relationships because I don't have and never had relationships solely based onCan you say how this has affected and is affecting your relationships?
a communication through a forum, or just through emails.
There are always different ways of communication and meeting in my relationships,
that always involve at one point also a real life way of meeting.
Since I clearly see through the illusion of the self, I don't have anymore particular thoughts or feelings about "me" in general,Can you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about you, when they are there?
in any situation. If these kind of thoughts or feeling very briefly arise they don't have the time to fully form or to become relevant. I look, I see them, and they disappear.
I don't consider to have met or starting to know a person until I can share a meeting at leastCan you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about people?
by video chat. So until then I really don't have thoughts and feelings about this person.
I put my evaluation in pause until I can at least have some meetings by video chat, and
after that in real life.
That said, in general I try to never put the word "conclusion" to any evaluation or feelings I can have or
feel about a human being, in any circumstance and after any amount of time spent knowing each other.
I try to stay always open.
In this contest I would like also to clarify that since my awakening I don't feel anymore
the feelings of anger, frustration, envy, possession, anxiety, lack or desire, and so on, in relation with any human being,
or any situation. The very faint appearance of the less dense of these feelings can maybe sometimes very briefly
cross my body or mind, but I look at them and they disappear almost instantly.
I believe that the complexity of a human being is beyond any possible
full "comprehension". As it's impossible to fully know any living creature, being a three or a planet.
I profoundly believe in love as the state and energy that underline everything.
This is not just something put in my mouth by the teachings of anyone, its what is clearly felt in my awareness.
What I call love has of course nothing to do with the love we associate with two people "loving each other"
or the love we can have for our family members, and so on. It has nothing to do with any form
or feeling of attachment.
It's impossible to describe the love I'm talking about in few words, or even in a thousands of books.
But allow me an attempt to summarize it as the full awareness of the reunion with the reality
of absolute and all comprehensive oneness with everything and everyone.
This question might be off topic? Or I just don't understand what you mean with this questionCan you say how it affects thoughts and feelings about challenging situations?
related to this topic.
Maybe this answer can be appropriate?:
Put aside practical totally harmless thoughts, like the ones about how to perform a particular technical or practical task;
since my full awakening, thoughts and feeling don't interfere or particularly affect "me" or my life in any circumstance,
difficult or easy. Or if they briefly arise, they surely disappear as quick as they arise, and they
never condition the course of my action in any given situation.
It doesn't affect my relationship with life in general.Can you say how it affects your relationship with life in general?
Allow me the use of a simplistic word: since I fully awakened
my relationship with life is fundamentally always the same, in any given circumstance.
Before, life, decisions, reactions, choices, feelings were governed by thoughts, fears,Please give examples from before the seeing through the separate self and after.
desires, worrying and so on.
By the idea of being or not being "someone" and the relationship between the world and that "someone".
Governed by the idea of a future and a past, and all the feelings and thoughts that arise from that.
After seeing through the illusion of a separate self, every moment is filled with lively life, not related
to any particular event or happening. There is just life unfolding in front of "my" awareness.
I put "my" between quotes because it's not really mine, it's just awareness.
There is no more worry about anything, not even the faintest appearance of it. Because there is no more concern
about a future or a past one instant from now. The now fills every corner or "my" awareness.
There is the playing with this awareness, focusing it sometimes more to one single event happening in front of it.
For example the awareness of touching something, feeling the material pattern of it, observing it deeply,
being completely there with that moment. Or just observing with my eyes, the magnificent spectacle of
monumental clouds, of the succession of the hills in the sunset, of the sea in his infinite vastness and aliveness.
The constant feeling is just an inner continuous peace that is not fundamentally shaken by anything.
This underlying peace is often filled with joy and laughter and awe, sometimes produced just
by the mere observation of the disappearance of a thought that was trying to form, or to attempts
at creating something different than what is. It's sometimes hilarious and beautiful to
see thoughts disappearing in an instant without living any trace behind.
Or joy and laughter simply produced by life unfolding in front of "my" awareness. I'm lucky enough to live in the
middle of nature, and its incredibly rich and colorful complexity give a constant spectacle
of beauty to the awareness of being there, with it, observing it, feeling it, being a direct part of it.
I hope I answered your questions in a satisfactory way :)
Re: Oneness
Hello again, Cristiano,
Thanks for your answers. Lovely reading them.
What does “fully awakened” mean to you? Please explain how that would be different from "not fully awakened".
Thanks for your answers. Lovely reading them.
Beautiful.thoughts and feeling don't interfere or particularly affect "me" or my life in any circumstance, difficult or easy. Or if they briefly arise, they surely disappear as quick as they arise, and they never condition the course of my action in any given situation.
Nice.Allow me the use of a simplistic word: since I fully awakened
my relationship with life is fundamentally always the same, in any given circumstance.
What does “fully awakened” mean to you? Please explain how that would be different from "not fully awakened".
Lovely.Before, life, decisions, reactions, choices, feelings were governed by thoughts, fears,
desires, worrying and so on.
By the idea of being or not being "someone" and the relationship between the world and that "someone".
Governed by the idea of a future and a past, and all the feelings and thoughts that arise from that.
Yes, you have, even though some of them may not have been formulated in a perfectly clear way (my bad). But I certainly do get a picture.I hope I answered your questions in a satisfactory way :)
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
Hello Magdalene,
Happy to have answered in a satisfactory way :)
so somehow these phases where always made of moments of awakening still inter-spaced by falling back "to sleep" :), or "half-asleep".
By fully awakened I meant my present state of awakening, that is fundamentally continuous, where I never go back "to sleep" not even for a second, where I never even cross a "foggy" moment.
A state with some very brief moments, the ones described in my previous answers, where some thoughts crossings my awareness briefly attempt to stay, to create something, but they never do. With the brief faint appearance of some denser feelings briefly arising, to disappear few instants later.
Also before I needed more effort to bring "my" awareness to look, to see.
Since my "full awakening" the "process" of looking is just automatic and spontaneous...the gate is always open :)
There is never really a moment where I don't look, and of course this "looking" doesn't require any effort anymore, the state of my awareness is fundamentally continuously open and clear.
Happy to have answered in a satisfactory way :)
It's just another silly simplification. I wrote fully awake, because I went through a long phase where I was awaken for few moments in a day, then after that, a subsequent phase, much shorter, where I was it just for few hours, then a way way shorter phase, lasting maybe ten days or so, where I was fully awake for a full day, and the next the awareness was a bit more foggy, then the next awake, and so fort..What does “fully awakened” mean to you? Please explain how that would be different from "not fully awakened".
so somehow these phases where always made of moments of awakening still inter-spaced by falling back "to sleep" :), or "half-asleep".
By fully awakened I meant my present state of awakening, that is fundamentally continuous, where I never go back "to sleep" not even for a second, where I never even cross a "foggy" moment.
A state with some very brief moments, the ones described in my previous answers, where some thoughts crossings my awareness briefly attempt to stay, to create something, but they never do. With the brief faint appearance of some denser feelings briefly arising, to disappear few instants later.
Also before I needed more effort to bring "my" awareness to look, to see.
Since my "full awakening" the "process" of looking is just automatic and spontaneous...the gate is always open :)
There is never really a moment where I don't look, and of course this "looking" doesn't require any effort anymore, the state of my awareness is fundamentally continuously open and clear.
Re: Oneness
Thank you, Cristiano.
Would you like me to send you our "final" questions?
Would you like me to send you our "final" questions?
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
You're welcome Magdalena.
Yes, please, send me your "final" questions.
Yes, please, send me your "final" questions.
Re: Oneness
So, Cristiano, here goes.
Please answer all the questions below from your current seeing, without going into theories, concepts, etc. Do try and keep your replies precise and concise.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe
- decision,
- intention,
- free will,
- choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Please answer all the questions below from your current seeing, without going into theories, concepts, etc. Do try and keep your replies precise and concise.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe
- decision,
- intention,
- free will,
- choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
Thanks Magdalena.
It took me some time, because I've tried to reply as precisely and clearly as possible.
Doing that I've surely lost track of length and conciseness! :)
I'm sorry for that.
The illusion grows ans "solidify" through the illusion of "experiences", "positive" and "negative", and through the accumulation of these ones in memories, accumulation of "knowledge", information, again all lived and "accumulated" through the same self illusion. These memories are physical and emotional. It grows through pain, physical and emotional, and the reaction to that pain, the fears that develop from all that, and so on...
When it starts? That's a more slippery question :)
I don't have a precise answer to this question.
It might start as a very light almost invisible illusion, in the belly of a mother, when the fetus body receive its very first feelings, noises, sensations from the mother and from the environment outside the mother's body. It might get slightly more "solid" when the first physical pain is felt, the first very painful breath of a new-born. Then when to the new-born is given a name, when a precise word is attached to its gender, and so on.
The built of the illusion of the separate self continues and accelerates in the continuous affirmation and repetition of its existence, made by the world around us, the culture, the people, the family etc, reaffirming the presence of a "person" a subject, me, you, him her etc, different and separated by everything and everyone else.
Reaffirming also the need of prove "oneself" to the world. To be in a certain way, and to not be in another.
it might start in a different form consistence and shade even before a human body is born, if reincarnation is something actual. I don't know if it is actual or not, I cannot know one way or the other.
I personally don't think it's important to know exactly when the illusion starts and how it starts, there are many possible theories about it. What is important is to see and understand how it works, how it develops, grow and put roots, to see it and recognize it in is illusory development. And of course what is most important is to realize that it doesn't exist.
In my own experience, in the life of this body and awareness to which was given the name Cristiano :), the illusion doesn't work or operate anymore. There is always some sort of weak attempt from thoughts and feeling to recreate the illusion, but there is absolutely no consistence or strength in it, so it disappear almost as fast as the attempt arise.
The word liberation is a very accurate in this, because that it's what it feels like, an absolute and total liberation from any constriction, resistance, preconceptions, etc. Every perception becomes direct, with no filter of any sort. Everything becomes suddenly incredibly clear in its simplicity, complexity and colorful infinite richness.
There isn't any difference in my awareness of the non-existence of a self from before I started this dialogue and now.
I had this sudden insight: behind my eyes there was absolutely no one, no entity , no witness, or really anything watching through them. There was absolutely no one witnessing what my eyes were registering, sending that information of light, shapes and colors to my brain. There was just the reality interacting with the body, with eyes and brain, exactly like the lens of a camera, "built" with the ability to register light color and shape.
That insight ignited a series of insights, one rapidly arising after the other. What my hands were feeling when touching or when touched by something, wasn't felt by no one, there was no one feeling that feeling of touch. Exactly like for the eyes, there were just the reality interacting with the body, and the body built to resister touch, temperature, pressure, through the skin, muscles etc, and through nerves reaching the brain translate that touch in to a sensation and so on...
There was absolutely no one witnessing all that, or memorizing all that, it was just happening and registering in the way the body was "built" to do.
And somehow, there was "a space" on and in which that reality was happening, that space is the awareness of it. But that awareness wasn't inside or outside the brain or the body, it was without an identity or a location, and without any separation from what was happening. The awareness too was just part of the whole happening.
That chain of insights lasted days, and just burned the last straws of already very weak and already intermittent illusion of a self.
None of those words mean anything, they describe non existent "actions" stemming from the illusion of a separate self.
Of them all, the one that maybe shows more clearly its illusory nature is the idea of a free will.
The illusion of a free will is just the illusion a self trying to declare his existence :)
A "free" will, to be "free", it means that is of course SEPARATE from everything else.
And its a will, so it stems from a precise point, A PRECISE ENTITY. If we put these assessments together, the idea of
the existence of a free-will, is another name for the existence a separate-self.
It's supposed existence it's just one of the elaborate construction, manipulation, of a desperate illusory self.
That series of words, are the names of a series of illusions of an illusory self that needs to reinforce the illusion of its own existence. So it needs to say, I make decisions, I have intention, there is a free will, my free-will, my choices, I can have or I have control on something, and so on.
To do so , the illusory self picks just a moment in a chain of events already interconnected one to the other, without the will of no one controlling them, and call that moment "its own" this is MINE! I MADE THIS, LOL, my decision, my choice, my free-will and so one.
In truth, that "decision", that "choice" are just events already embedded in the infinite, non separate series of events, sensation, needs, that create the never-stopping flow of life.
So there is no decision, no choice, when the illusion of the self operates.
When that illusion vanishes, then of course still there is no decision, choices etc.
strictly interconnected one to the other.
Sometimes this endless ever existing interconnection is very clear, very apparent and obvious:
The revelation I had in my twenties in Indonesia (description in a previous post) it happened absolutely on its own.
That totally spontaneous event - not even related to an inquire by me (at least surely not a conscious one, maybe not even a sub-conscious one, who knows! :) ) - and the consequences of that event, deeply and profoundly shaped all my spiritual path, and so my whole life, and of course also this dialogue I'm having with you :)
Sometimes that chain of interconnection is a little bit more hidden.
Like when we "make a decision" to drink or not a glass of water.
The dryness of the body asks for water, the conscious mind just follows and the body acts and drinks...( at that point the sub-conscious probably already took that "decision")
The body asks for water, but I don't drink. The reasons can be numerous: Habit of not drinking enough, incapability of recognizing the signals the body sends, this last one related to an illness or to just a lack of sensitivity produced by blockages and so on.
The body is perfectly hydrated, but one still drinks. again so numerous reasons of why it happens, etc.
In both my examples, Indonesia and drinking water, I think its obvious that there is no free-will to be found, no isolated "decision".
Responsibility is just a by-product of the sense of guilt, of the fear of a superior judgement, and the sense of "duty" that derives from it, again all generated by the illusion of a self.
Catholicism has surely something to do with all this ! :)
It's interesting how human society, for thousands of years made and organized by many illusory selfs, has been always terrified by the absolute freedom of their fellow humans.
The idea of the non-existence of a self, immediately rises the possibility of evil unleashed
A human acting free, without the chain of "responsibility! DANGER !! LOL :)
Because the idea on non-existence of the self is judged by another illusory self,
terrified by everything that can threaten it :)... the more someone is free, the more is threatening !
So, if there is no self, and there is no free-will, and there is no responsibility...how human beings can be controlled then??
How can they be blocked in their obvious, natural tendency of destroying, killing, and just constantly wreaking havoc!!?? LOL
What is not understood in society at large, is that when finally the illusion of a self is seen, when his non-existence is realized, when the illusion finally completely disappear, what lies "behind" is oneness, is love, real love, universal love.
And love, real love, can produce only love.
So when there is just LOVE, what is the place of responsibility?? Where is even the need of responsibility?
it becomes just a bad joke, coming from very dark times.
Responsibility is just another chain, to keep the "evil side" of the free man in control.
The idea of responsibility is simply ridiculous and burn in one instant, under the sun of love.
When the self is no more, as it never was. What is left is only Love, in all possible directions, ever present and all compassing, originating from no place, no space, no time. Eternal and infinite. So infinitely abundant at any given time and everywhere that it is beyond the idea of quantity. Love doesn't chose, in any way, it doesn't judge in any way.
It doesn't make rankings, in any way. Love embrace and welcome everything, everyone and every living or even not living thing :) in every moment.
Love was always here, it never started and it will never end, and of course it’s absolutely free and always completely accessible and available. To everyone, from the economically poorest to the richest humans, from the most humble and hidden human, living the most simple and repetitive life, to the most ignorant of humans, to the awakened ones, to
the one so lost that exploit or harm or kill many people, to the one who never stops helping his fellows humans asking absolutely nothing in return.
All your questions during these days, with also these "final" questions, made me realize the serious beautiful dedication,
and passion that animate LU. With you I would like to thank all the people at LU, for having created this so incredibly precious movement. Really free, accessible and available to absolutely everyone, even the ones who cannot afford a paying help, and this is probably one of the highest act of Love.
Thank you.
It took me some time, because I've tried to reply as precisely and clearly as possible.
Doing that I've surely lost track of length and conciseness! :)
I'm sorry for that.
No, there isn't, in any way, shape or form, and it never was.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion of separate self is the illusion that there is a separate entity from which a human being acts, thinks and lives their life. A separate entity that makes choices, decisions, that suffers, that desires, that feels feelings, and that ultimately dies. (For some people that entity can also survive death, becoming a ghost or something else who somehow continues after the death of the human body)2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion grows ans "solidify" through the illusion of "experiences", "positive" and "negative", and through the accumulation of these ones in memories, accumulation of "knowledge", information, again all lived and "accumulated" through the same self illusion. These memories are physical and emotional. It grows through pain, physical and emotional, and the reaction to that pain, the fears that develop from all that, and so on...
When it starts? That's a more slippery question :)
I don't have a precise answer to this question.
It might start as a very light almost invisible illusion, in the belly of a mother, when the fetus body receive its very first feelings, noises, sensations from the mother and from the environment outside the mother's body. It might get slightly more "solid" when the first physical pain is felt, the first very painful breath of a new-born. Then when to the new-born is given a name, when a precise word is attached to its gender, and so on.
The built of the illusion of the separate self continues and accelerates in the continuous affirmation and repetition of its existence, made by the world around us, the culture, the people, the family etc, reaffirming the presence of a "person" a subject, me, you, him her etc, different and separated by everything and everyone else.
Reaffirming also the need of prove "oneself" to the world. To be in a certain way, and to not be in another.
it might start in a different form consistence and shade even before a human body is born, if reincarnation is something actual. I don't know if it is actual or not, I cannot know one way or the other.
I personally don't think it's important to know exactly when the illusion starts and how it starts, there are many possible theories about it. What is important is to see and understand how it works, how it develops, grow and put roots, to see it and recognize it in is illusory development. And of course what is most important is to realize that it doesn't exist.
In my own experience, in the life of this body and awareness to which was given the name Cristiano :), the illusion doesn't work or operate anymore. There is always some sort of weak attempt from thoughts and feeling to recreate the illusion, but there is absolutely no consistence or strength in it, so it disappear almost as fast as the attempt arise.
It feels like an absolute, perpetual incredibly deep and at the same time incredibly light feeling of freedom, including freedom from the limited word "freedom".3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
The word liberation is a very accurate in this, because that it's what it feels like, an absolute and total liberation from any constriction, resistance, preconceptions, etc. Every perception becomes direct, with no filter of any sort. Everything becomes suddenly incredibly clear in its simplicity, complexity and colorful infinite richness.
There isn't any difference in my awareness of the non-existence of a self from before I started this dialogue and now.
The very last bit it happened way before I started this dialogue.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I had this sudden insight: behind my eyes there was absolutely no one, no entity , no witness, or really anything watching through them. There was absolutely no one witnessing what my eyes were registering, sending that information of light, shapes and colors to my brain. There was just the reality interacting with the body, with eyes and brain, exactly like the lens of a camera, "built" with the ability to register light color and shape.
That insight ignited a series of insights, one rapidly arising after the other. What my hands were feeling when touching or when touched by something, wasn't felt by no one, there was no one feeling that feeling of touch. Exactly like for the eyes, there were just the reality interacting with the body, and the body built to resister touch, temperature, pressure, through the skin, muscles etc, and through nerves reaching the brain translate that touch in to a sensation and so on...
There was absolutely no one witnessing all that, or memorizing all that, it was just happening and registering in the way the body was "built" to do.
And somehow, there was "a space" on and in which that reality was happening, that space is the awareness of it. But that awareness wasn't inside or outside the brain or the body, it was without an identity or a location, and without any separation from what was happening. The awareness too was just part of the whole happening.
That chain of insights lasted days, and just burned the last straws of already very weak and already intermittent illusion of a self.
These words describe actions that stem from a supposedly precise will, a precise point, so another name for the illusion of the self.5) Describe
- decision,
- intention,
- free will,
- choice and control.
None of those words mean anything, they describe non existent "actions" stemming from the illusion of a separate self.
Of them all, the one that maybe shows more clearly its illusory nature is the idea of a free will.
The illusion of a free will is just the illusion a self trying to declare his existence :)
A "free" will, to be "free", it means that is of course SEPARATE from everything else.
And its a will, so it stems from a precise point, A PRECISE ENTITY. If we put these assessments together, the idea of
the existence of a free-will, is another name for the existence a separate-self.
It's supposed existence it's just one of the elaborate construction, manipulation, of a desperate illusory self.
That series of words, are the names of a series of illusions of an illusory self that needs to reinforce the illusion of its own existence. So it needs to say, I make decisions, I have intention, there is a free will, my free-will, my choices, I can have or I have control on something, and so on.
To do so , the illusory self picks just a moment in a chain of events already interconnected one to the other, without the will of no one controlling them, and call that moment "its own" this is MINE! I MADE THIS, LOL, my decision, my choice, my free-will and so one.
In truth, that "decision", that "choice" are just events already embedded in the infinite, non separate series of events, sensation, needs, that create the never-stopping flow of life.
So there is no decision, no choice, when the illusion of the self operates.
When that illusion vanishes, then of course still there is no decision, choices etc.
I think I've already answered this question in my previous answer. All happens as a consequence of a chain of eventsWhat makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.
strictly interconnected one to the other.
Sometimes this endless ever existing interconnection is very clear, very apparent and obvious:
The revelation I had in my twenties in Indonesia (description in a previous post) it happened absolutely on its own.
That totally spontaneous event - not even related to an inquire by me (at least surely not a conscious one, maybe not even a sub-conscious one, who knows! :) ) - and the consequences of that event, deeply and profoundly shaped all my spiritual path, and so my whole life, and of course also this dialogue I'm having with you :)
Sometimes that chain of interconnection is a little bit more hidden.
Like when we "make a decision" to drink or not a glass of water.
The dryness of the body asks for water, the conscious mind just follows and the body acts and drinks...( at that point the sub-conscious probably already took that "decision")
The body asks for water, but I don't drink. The reasons can be numerous: Habit of not drinking enough, incapability of recognizing the signals the body sends, this last one related to an illness or to just a lack of sensitivity produced by blockages and so on.
The body is perfectly hydrated, but one still drinks. again so numerous reasons of why it happens, etc.
In both my examples, Indonesia and drinking water, I think its obvious that there is no free-will to be found, no isolated "decision".
I imagine that with "responsibility" is meant the emotional or factual baring of consequences of one's actions.What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Responsibility is just a by-product of the sense of guilt, of the fear of a superior judgement, and the sense of "duty" that derives from it, again all generated by the illusion of a self.
Catholicism has surely something to do with all this ! :)
It's interesting how human society, for thousands of years made and organized by many illusory selfs, has been always terrified by the absolute freedom of their fellow humans.
The idea of the non-existence of a self, immediately rises the possibility of evil unleashed
A human acting free, without the chain of "responsibility! DANGER !! LOL :)
Because the idea on non-existence of the self is judged by another illusory self,
terrified by everything that can threaten it :)... the more someone is free, the more is threatening !
So, if there is no self, and there is no free-will, and there is no responsibility...how human beings can be controlled then??
How can they be blocked in their obvious, natural tendency of destroying, killing, and just constantly wreaking havoc!!?? LOL
What is not understood in society at large, is that when finally the illusion of a self is seen, when his non-existence is realized, when the illusion finally completely disappear, what lies "behind" is oneness, is love, real love, universal love.
And love, real love, can produce only love.
So when there is just LOVE, what is the place of responsibility?? Where is even the need of responsibility?
it becomes just a bad joke, coming from very dark times.
Responsibility is just another chain, to keep the "evil side" of the free man in control.
The idea of responsibility is simply ridiculous and burn in one instant, under the sun of love.
When the self is no more, as it never was. What is left is only Love, in all possible directions, ever present and all compassing, originating from no place, no space, no time. Eternal and infinite. So infinitely abundant at any given time and everywhere that it is beyond the idea of quantity. Love doesn't chose, in any way, it doesn't judge in any way.
It doesn't make rankings, in any way. Love embrace and welcome everything, everyone and every living or even not living thing :) in every moment.
Love was always here, it never started and it will never end, and of course it’s absolutely free and always completely accessible and available. To everyone, from the economically poorest to the richest humans, from the most humble and hidden human, living the most simple and repetitive life, to the most ignorant of humans, to the awakened ones, to
the one so lost that exploit or harm or kill many people, to the one who never stops helping his fellows humans asking absolutely nothing in return.
I would like to thank you Magdalena for the time you dedicated to this conversation and to me.6) Anything to add?
All your questions during these days, with also these "final" questions, made me realize the serious beautiful dedication,
and passion that animate LU. With you I would like to thank all the people at LU, for having created this so incredibly precious movement. Really free, accessible and available to absolutely everyone, even the ones who cannot afford a paying help, and this is probably one of the highest act of Love.
Thank you.
Re: Oneness
Hello again, Cristiano,
Thanks for your answers. They'll now be shared with other guides who may or may not have questions.
Will stay in touch. :-)
Thanks for your answers. They'll now be shared with other guides who may or may not have questions.
Will stay in touch. :-)
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
Understood, thank you Magdalena.
I've just add another little paragraph to my answers, something I had forgotten to say.
Did you receive it?
I've just add another little paragraph to my answers, something I had forgotten to say.
Did you receive it?
Re: Oneness
I cannot see it here in the tread, so maybe I should write it again?
It was short, just five or six lines.
It was short, just five or six lines.
Re: Oneness
No, i can't see anything new on this thread either. Must have got lost somewhere in the Internet void.
Warmly,
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Magdalena
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing can be known. Everything is to be questioned.
https://youtu.be/_XyaaGZuWfY?si=bvkF-MNoeWBUUFe3
;-)
Re: Oneness
Haha, the internet void :) here it is :
...I've just realized that to the question of "responsibility" I forgot to add the other side of it, the "positive" one.
The idea of responsibility is used as a chain, a weight to control the evil of the "free" human being.
But when the supposed action for which one is responsible of is "positive", when it produces "good", the responsibility of it, becomes the "positive" food that feeds the self in the affirmation of its supposed greatness, of its glory...
So in this form, the idea of responsibility feeds the ego part of the illusory self.
...I've just realized that to the question of "responsibility" I forgot to add the other side of it, the "positive" one.
The idea of responsibility is used as a chain, a weight to control the evil of the "free" human being.
But when the supposed action for which one is responsible of is "positive", when it produces "good", the responsibility of it, becomes the "positive" food that feeds the self in the affirmation of its supposed greatness, of its glory...
So in this form, the idea of responsibility feeds the ego part of the illusory self.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 178 guests