Guide request

[jazmine928]

Hi Elad,
I just did the exercise while on a bus to NYC. It was interesting! I enjoyed noticing experience a lot more without the label “I.” I felt like there was less judgement . For example, instead of saying “I feel nauseous” just saying “nauseated” took the personal infliction away. I don’t think the labels really change the experience but it did feel more limiting to say”I” with everything. I did notice something quite interesting when writing the second time and really sticking to my present experience… I would notice something like an ache in my leg and by the time I went to write about it, it was gone and then I realized it was no longer my true experience to write about because to write it down would be to re-live the past. Does that make sense? I noticed how rapidly sensations and things around me are changing. Thanks so much for the exercise.

[Elad]

Hi Elad,
I just did the exercise while on a bus to NYC. It was interesting! I enjoyed noticing experience a lot more without the label “I.” I felt like there was less judgement . For example, instead of saying “I feel nauseous” just saying “nauseated” took the personal infliction away. I don’t think the labels really change the experience but it did feel more limiting to say”I” with everything. I did notice something quite interesting when writing the second time and really sticking to my present experience… I would notice something like an ache in my leg and by the time I went to write about it, it was gone and then I realized it was no longer my true experience to write about because to write it down would be to re-live the past. Does that make sense? I noticed how rapidly sensations and things around me are changing. Thanks so much for the exercise.

Beautiful, this is all very clear good attending. This noticing that descriptions are after the fact can be an entrance point to go through the gateless gate. Any time you are aware of it (not thinking about it, but experiencing it), let it sink in and be curious about:

1) What does that tell me about the the thoughts I have about the world and myself?
2) Is there a self or separation in direct experience prior to labeling?

Please also do this exercise, made by a fellow guide named Stacy. When she speaks about truth and lies here, she is not speaking about what is conventionally "objectively true", but about the state of truthfulness - which is key in this investigation:

We often lie every day & don't realize it.
For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."
Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.
Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.
The story of a separate "self" is a lie.
This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.
You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.
Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.
In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.
First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?
Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."
How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.
It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.
Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.
Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.
What is found?
If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.
1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.
I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.
Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.
I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)
Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.
"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.
Do you see that?

[jazmine928]

Thank you! I’m going to be doing the next practice today but wanted to share a sort of “lie” I noticed a few days ago. When we weren’t allowed on the plane I noticed myself saying “I can’t believe this is happening” and then I sort of said to myself “really? You can’t believe it? You’re not on the plane..it’s pretty obvious this is happening 😂”

[Elad]

Thank you! I’m going to be doing the next practice today but wanted to share a sort of “lie” I noticed a few days ago. When we weren’t allowed on the plane I noticed myself saying “I can’t believe this is happening” and then I sort of said to myself “really? You can’t believe it? You’re not on the plane..it’s pretty obvious this is happening 😂”

That's awesome! This is the kind of stuff that seeing through the self illusion is made of :)

[Elad]

How are things Jessica?

[jazmine928]

Hi Elad!
Things are going well..I’m still away from home but driving back today with my family (I have 8 year old twins) so it’s been a lot being away with them. I do take this very seriously though. As we’ve been gathering with family and whatnot and since doing the exercise on the bus, I’ve noticed even more how the mind really lives in the past or future. And then I wonder, what would we talk about if we didn’t do that? So interesting.

I haven’t quite done the full exercise of catching lies but I definitely know the “bad” feeling that comes with a lie. My immediate family has gone through a fair amount of trauma/disturbance and I think I was a little trepidations to dive back into it. I also can have a very active imagination and thoughts such as “am I happy? Am I living to my full potential” can cause a lot of anxiety and worry that this anxiety could be misunderstood as a “lie” I’m not sure if this makes sense! I even have worried/thoughts that this investigation won’t work for me and I’ll be perpetually seeking..I hope not! Thank you for reaching out again and I’ll be home soon and able to be better at responding promptly!

[Elad]

[quote=jazmine928 post_id=390453 time=1713618264 user_id=15839]
Hi Elad!
Things are going well..I’m still away from home but driving back today with my family (I have 8 year old twins) so it’s been a lot being away with them. I do take this very seriously though. As we’ve been gathering with family and whatnot and since doing the exercise on the bus, I’ve noticed even more how the mind really lives in the past or future. And then I wonder, what would we talk about if we didn’t do that? So interesting.

I haven’t quite done the full exercise of catching lies but I definitely know the “bad” feeling that comes with a lie. My immediate family has gone through a fair amount of trauma/disturbance and I think I was a little trepidations to dive back into it. I also can have a very active imagination and thoughts such as “am I happy? Am I living to my full potential” can cause a lot of anxiety and worry that this anxiety could be misunderstood as a “lie” I’m not sure if this makes sense! I even have worried/thoughts that this investigation won’t work for me and I’ll be perpetually seeking..I hope not! Thank you for reaching out again and I’ll be home soon and able to be better at responding promptly!
[/quote]

Hi Jessica, good to read your update.

We can still talk about everything after waking up, have interest in bistory, enjoy a Sci Fi movie :) It's just the illusory sense of ownership and control and mixing up stories with direct experience etc - wrong beliefs - that are seen through.

As for the truth exercise you are right. The body yes and body no are not a direct information channel to "ultimate truth", otherwise it would be easy to solve the problems of quantum theory 🤪

Rather, the body yes/no shows us something about what we really believe and experience, are key to authentic inquiry and discovery process. Not to be ignored.

So, is there a separate self?

If yes, what?

If no, how does it feel?

[jazmine928]

I guess I see how the “self” is sort of the mind always playing catch up and putting a story with experience that naturally arises. Wow..I guess that’s it? Feels pretty “true” But then when are there still strong preferences/aversions that feel so real?! Even this whole quest is a mission of the “self”…

[Elad]

I guess I see how the “self” is sort of the mind always playing catch up and putting a story with experience that naturally arises. Wow..I guess that’s it? Feels pretty “true” But then when are there still strong preferences/aversions that feel so real?! Even this whole quest is a mission of the “self”…

Yes, getting closer! Is a self needed in order for preferences to be there?

Do this exercise:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.
Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.
Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.
Experiment - Finding the function of choice
Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.
Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

[jazmine928]

Hi Elad,
Just did the drink exercise. I had lime soda water and ginger ale. The qualities of the drinks certainly just “appeared.” I sat and waited for the qualities to appear. I also think the decision was made before it was time to choose. The ginger ale was the standout for its sweetness. When I was counting there was a rebellious thought in me saying “pick the soda water..prove the experiment wrong” but I went with the ginger ale after all. I know there isn’t a chooser but there is a feeling of being one. I also had the thought “mmmm this was a good choice” 😂

[Elad]

Hi Elad,
Just did the drink exercise. I had lime soda water and ginger ale. The qualities of the drinks certainly just “appeared.” I sat and waited for the qualities to appear. I also think the decision was made before it was time to choose. The ginger ale was the standout for its sweetness. When I was counting there was a rebellious thought in me saying “pick the soda water..prove the experiment wrong” but I went with the ginger ale after all. I know there isn’t a chooser but there is a feeling of being one. I also had the thought “mmmm this was a good choice” 😂

Nice looking!

And did the rebellious streak and the "mmmm good choice" get decided by someone or just spontaneously appear like all the rest?

Do you imagine any of these thoughts or impulses need to disappear for it to be seen that there is no self?

[jazmine928]

I feel the rebellious part was not chosen, but I did sort of feel like there was a “me” saying “are you going to listen to that voice or chose the one you really want?” If there is no “I” then what is there making it feel so real? And if there is not chose, can there ever be a wrong choice made? But then I wonder, why do people make such seemingly harmful choices? Thank you Elad! Hope you’re having a good day!

[Elad]

Hi Jessica!

It's good you are questioning more deeply!

Keep looking is there actually an "I" in any of that, or is that just a thought believed?

When you write you "feel" like there is an I, it's not a place to stop. What we say we feel very often just means what we habitually believe. We aim for direct experience here, something clearer and deeper.

As for why hurtful coices are made, wars, cancer, addictions, etc - our inquiry will not address that directly, but clear seeing might still make a difference to it. I recommend, however, to leave it aside. Stay laser sharp on the question if there is a self anywhere.

Please do this exercise:

Do this exercise. Sit still with closed eyes, relax and let go of activity, then at certain points choose a number (here is me doing it a few times: (14, 77,12, 14). Each time "you choose a number" look to: where did it come from, what decided it, how, was there a self? After each number let go and relax and be still before again "choosing" a number.

Try it also one time where you write down each number that comes up.

Write me some numbers and observations what is seen doing this.

[jazmine928]

Hi Elad!

Here's what I notice...when I really sit back and relax, the thoughts (numbers) just pop up like bubbles on the water. There is sort of a feeling of watching a movie, or being a witness. I can see there that "I" am not doing it. However, when I engage and actively "think" about it, I can have thoughts like "would like you to chose a 12 or 4?" And that's where the feeling/belief of me choosing comes in. But, I guess it isn't "Me" deciding to do that...it almost seems like my mind wants to convince me that "I" am choosing. I'm sorry if I'm taking longer than I "should." There just this little wall I can't seem to get past. I see how thoughts "pop" up and then "I" get involved but I'm not the originator of the thoughts...

[Elad]

Hi Elad!

Here's what I notice...when I really sit back and relax, the thoughts (numbers) just pop up like bubbles on the water. There is sort of a feeling of watching a movie, or being a witness. I can see there that "I" am not doing it. However, when I engage and actively "think" about it, I can have thoughts like "would like you to chose a 12 or 4?" And that's where the feeling/belief of me choosing comes in. But, I guess it isn't "Me" deciding to do that...it almost seems like my mind wants to convince me that "I" am choosing. I'm sorry if I'm taking longer than I "should." There just this little wall I can't seem to get past. I see how thoughts "pop" up and then "I" get involved but I'm not the originator of the thoughts...

"You" are well on the way and we are in no hurry, take all the time needed. :)

It's good observing that even if you go quick and if thoughts come and say what "you want to choose and you" you can see on closer inspection that you don't choose for those thoughts to come in that way at that moment either.

Please do this exercise a couple of times more. If more is *seen* write.

I'll send you another exercise soon.