I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

[Elad]

I will investigate this I more. I and P are equal. When one says I, it has nice. But when one says p, it does not. So I’ll look into this juce given to I.

Not sure I understand this, but look forward to you sharing more of your experiences/seeing.

[Truthfull]

I meant to say Juice, not “nice”.

[Elad]

I meant to say Juice, not “nice”.

Okay, let me know how it goes.

Also, try for some time just to replace I with P and see what happens.

[Truthfull]

Throughout the day, when a thought about "I" comes up, replace the letter!
"I want to have this" ->
"O want to have this"
Can "O" want to have anything?
No.
How then could "I" want to have anything?
"I don't like that" ->
"A don't like that"
Can "A" dislike anything?
No.
How come there is an idea that "I" can dislike anything?

Observe this throughout the day and report what comes up!

It’s like that’s are a train I keep getting and waving away from myself. I, I, I. When I slow down and see the I and replace it with P. It’s like someone else’s voice and there is a bit of space.

Meditation is not producing must at the miniute. Can you wear me out more with tasks, seeking.

[Elad]

First and foremost keep looking whatever feels like me, the one who can decide and choose and do, is he real? Don't let belief or mental conviction in existence or non existence stop your asking and looking. Stay curious and look! Don't believe anybody else. Sooner or later a shift will take place.

Please do these exercises:

1. Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?

2. Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything? (Thought is so very overrated - by thought).

3. Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

4. For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: ​
​Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.​
​Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.​
​And notice that you're not making them happen.​
​You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.​
​And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.​
​You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.

Let me know what is felt while and after doing this.

[Truthfull]

Hi ELad, So I spent a few hours yesterday doing this. I fell asleep one but felt like I was still awake while asleep. Nice.

Please do these exercises:

1. Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought? NO

2. Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything? (Thought is so very overrated - by thought). NO

3. Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

This was tricky. I notices that thought wraps a thin film around sound, sensations, taste. Its very quick and it hurts to try to see the gap. Its not the same with sight. This is slightly different, thought still wraps but its quitter "before thought" a sort of movement that is maybe subconscious.

4. For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: ​
​Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.​
​Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.​
​And notice that you're not making them happen.​
​You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.​
​And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.​
​You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts. yes I agree. This practice left me feeling exposed and naked. It felt like a vulnerable place, the hear and now. Without the comfort of thoughts. They are like one pacifier after another pacifier, like when you were a child and sucked your thumb. I remember this feeling years ago. I thought I was going mad in my parents house seeing the place fresh. Thought has been a good friend for years. But I asked it to leave me know so I can have what's left of my life to myself.

Let me know what is felt while and after doing this. Thanks for the guidance Elad.

[Elad]

Things are moving beautifully.


"This was tricky. I notices that thought wraps a thin film around sound, sensations, taste. Its very quick and it hurts to try to see the gap. Its not the same with sight. This is slightly different, thought still wraps but its quitter "before thought" a sort of movement that is maybe subconscious."

I think I understand. You are speaking to awareness of how subtle thoughts effect experience. Please look again though, in direct eperience can you ever find a thought making direct contact with a sensation? Make sure not to think about your experience. Only LOOK.

"This practice left me feeling exposed and naked. It felt like a vulnerable place, the hear and now. Without the comfort of thoughts. They are like one pacifier after another pacifier, like when you were a child and sucked your thumb. I remember this feeling years ago. I thought I was going mad in my parents house seeing the place fresh. Thought has been a good friend for years. But I asked it to leave me know so I can have what's left of my life to myself"

Yes, self illusion can have a defense from trauma function to a significant extent. Meet all this with as much love and kindness as possible.

For the next day try to in all kinds of situations to say to yourself

"there is no self, no control"

Then just sense, feel, notice what happens.

Write me about it tomorrow.

[Truthfull]

With, “ there is no self, no control”.

I have a desire to give up that conflicts with the no control. My life seems to be getting worse, I doing less exercise, picking up bad habits, not working, arguing with my family. If I just give up will it get worse. I have a big desire to get fit, loose weight and sort my life out.

Right now I feel hurt.

[Elad]

I see okay. If this stuff is taken as a mental orientation it will be destructive. Conventionally speaking of course our effort, commitment and care is needed.

So remember, if any of this feels like pointing to nihilism or negativism or reduction of heart, one is not looking to the moon the finger points to, but rather is believing patterns of thoughts that are triggered.

It is very important NOT to believe in "no self" or "no control" these as beliefs can be detrimental.

One most genuinely keep looking, IS THERE A SELF, IS THERE CONTROL? Until there is no doubt. When it is clearly seen it will manifest with relief, love and gratitude - and more availability for what is helpful. So as long as it is not that, don't believe anything about self or no-self, keep looking.

[Elad]

This process - as well as life - can be hard sometimes. I'm with you in the spirit.

[Truthfull]

Thanks for the kind words and support. I’ll keep looking.

[Elad]

A guide related to the community, Christiane Michelberger, shared a great text other day. Please read it and let me know how it relates to your experience.


I Can’t Find a Self - There Is No Self. Right?

Wrong.
Not finding something doesn’t prove its non-existence, it just proves that you can’t find it.

In preparation for my book “How to See Through the Self-Illusion” (to be published May 2024), I guided in this step again, read many dialogues between seekers and guides and also mentored several people who are guiding in this step. Most dialogues are prematurely finished at the point when the seeker doesn’t find a self. The seeker and maybe the guide assume, this must be it, not knowing what else could come.

The fundamental error in this assessment is that not finding a self and concluding it doesn’t exist is a conceptual answer. The real answer is a sensate experience.

Doubt about having seen through the self-illusion will creep in quickly and the whole search starts all over again. The doubt is valid, take it seriously and don’t try to cure it. It will be cured by the right answer.

The right answer will not be given by YOU. The answer is a revelation, most often at a time of relaxation outside of the inquiry. Exploring the self-illusion prepares the ground for the revelation to happen.

To let the answer be revealed, the inquiry has to go through 4 stages.

I. What do I call “Me”?

It starts with finding out which belief you are looking for and how the sense of that belief manifests. That is very simple for the inquiry into the self-illusion, everybody has a sense of ‘me’ which they already know.

If you are neurodiverse, it might be different because you might have had to adjust so strongly to your surrounding that maybe you don’t have a clear sense of a self. Look for what feels like the ‘I’ in situations like “I am not fitting in”, “I feel great in hyperfocus”, “I can’t make eye contact”, “I have trouble starting tasks”, “I love to be on my own and relax”.

II. Exploring the “Me”
Then you explore the sense of me in different aspects of your life. The question is: Is there really a “me” that does all this or experiences it? You can also notice the sense of “me” and look whether there is really an entity that holds the reigns.

III. The Holding Pattern

This is the stage when you’ll feel stuck. It became clear that what we call ‘self’ or ‘me’ cannot be found but it still feels like there is one.

There is an uncomfortable cognitive dissonance, the feelings and the findings contradict each other. This cognitive dissonance can last for quite a while, we call it a holding pattern. Though not everybody experiences it, most do. Being in this stage feels rather uneasy. You will be tempted to resolve the cognitive dissonance by concluding that there is no self, since it can’t be found. This is not the final insight though.

If you are in this stage, know that frustration is par for the course. It shows that you are only one step away from the shift. Keep going!

IV. The Shift

When you keep exploring, the answer will reveal itself in a shift.

It will be clear as daylight that there is no “me”. The shift is not any shift, be it an energetic one or seeing “all as one” or “just this”. The shift of seeing through the self-illusion will provide a clear insight into the nature of the self. You might ask yourself why you ever believed in it, since it is so obvious that it never existed.

To give you an idea of how a shift could look like, here is an example how a woman framed her experience. Please know that everybody experiences the shift in a unique way. So far, I never heard two persons report the same experience.

“Let me try to put it into words. As I said, I was in yoga and we were doing an exercise standing up and suddenly my perception changed. The sense of self was gone, the bodies of the others were just like shells and everything somehow belonged together. It felt very light and I felt a great sense of happiness. At that moment, I clearly saw that there was no me. It lasted for a minute or half a minute. The feeling lingered for the whole evening.”

Don’t give up when you’re in the holding pattern and frustrated that nothing moves. Keep looking into all the hiding places of “I am doing or experiencing this”. Perseverance is key. The answer will be revealed.

[Truthfull]

This is brilliant, I need to digest it more but I have been in the holding pattern time and time again, giving up a lot. With this process we will keep at it until the shift happens or I physically die.

Thanks for the detailed support and guidance. I'm still in.

[Elad]

This is brilliant, I need to digest it more but I have been in the holding pattern time and time again, giving up a lot. With this process we will keep at it until the shift happens or I physically die.

Thanks for the detailed support and guidance. I'm still in.

Beautiful! With you.

Here is exercise for support. Remember, even if the mind think it knows, let any doubt be taken seriously, and let the heart discover.

Sit still with closed eyes, relax and let go of activity, then at certain points choose a number (here is me doing it a few times: (14, 77,12, 14). Each time "you choose a number" look to: where did it come from, what decided it, how, was there a self? After each number let go and relax and be still before again "choosing" a number.

Try it also one time where you write down each number that comes up.

Write me some numbers and observations what is seen doing this.

[Truthfull]

When I do the numbers exercise, it’s like numbers are just sound thoughts, the visual thoughts produced by the brain. I watch them struggle to come up and desolve. I dont feel like I’m thinking them, I’m just watching them come and go.