Unconditioned Wholeness

[Noro]

Hello Anaeli,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Rowena and I am happy to be your guide. What would you like me to call you?

I will just start with a few suggestions regarding our ongoing inquiry.

1. As you are already aware, here at LU we are exploring of the idea of the separate self. In order to keep the momentum going with this enquiry, please post your responses on a regular basis, it doesn't have to be daily, but If you are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. For this process to work you have to be focused on your DE (direct experience) of what's actually happening and describe your findings without relying on thought, memory, or imagination. Long-winded analytical and/or philosophical answers are best avoided as they can hinder 'seeing'. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

3. Please put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading etc. for the duration of this investigation, unless it is LU based material. Put all your effort and attention in to seeing what is, as it is, with 100% honesty. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

4. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/

and "Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


5. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)

6. Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions ( I try to always put them in blue text. But please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.)
Please answer questions individually, as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue.

7. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the enquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers. Here's a video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ



STARTING THE ENQUIRY:

Please look at this thoroughly for a full day, repeatedly (aim for 20-30 small lookings/investigations) before replying.

What is it that you perceive yourself to be in your everyday life?

When you say or think 'I', what do you refer to with the word 'I'?

Make sure that the answers don't come form your intellect or from any learned knowledge, but from directly observing yourself in the midst of your busy, everyday life.

Looking forward to doing this inquiry with you,

With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

How wonderful that you can now be with your mother as pure unconditional love and patience, and I love what you wrote:

The "I" is the fluid sense of being that interplays with Life. There's rest and contentment, at the same time, constant awareness of sensations and feelings - sometimes very uncomfortable.

To this I can only affirm a big YES! :)


First things first, let’s get any expectations out on in the open, just answer the way you feel:

How will life change when you realize there is no "i"?

How will you change?

What do you want or expect to be different?

What do you not want to happen?

What is missing right now that you expect to have when there is a shift?

Only fear and expectations can prevent clear seeing of no self.


LOOKING FOR THE NO SELF IN THE EXERCISES
There is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing, and seeing that there is nothing.

If you can’t see for yourself directly, in your actual experience, you cannot describe what you see in your own words.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

COLORED SOCKS
If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can THINK about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a LOOK at your socks and SEE what colour they actually are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way.
We are only interested in LOOKING at and SEEING what is actually going on.
We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE)- the experience right now and right here.


DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE IS
Seeing
Hearing
Feeling or Sensing (without naming emotion as this is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Cognizing or Thinking (but not the content of thinking. Thinking about content is just more thinking and diverts you from the direct experience)

Please let me know if you are not clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Direct Experience is not conceptual, or made of thought.
Experiencing happens BEFORE thought arrives to describe or explain it.
The moment we attempt to communicate experience we introduce concepts. We then respond or identify with those concepts. Then that experience of responding gives birth to more stories (concepts) to which we respond and so on…

With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Awakening can be very destabilizing, especially when it is unexpected, I am glad to here that experiencing is one of more stability and clarity. I understand that you are staying temporarily with your mother:

How is it for you when you are 'out in the world' interacting with other people?
Is there a flow and a continued sense of stability and clarity?


APPLE EXERCISE
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use a photo of an apple or a real apple.

When looking at an apple directly there's color; a thought saying "apple" and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

But what is seen for sure? Colors are seen, shapes maybe seen and thinking is seen.

What about the content of thought, what thoughts describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts (including descriptions) about something.
Actual experience is sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thinking arising, but not its content.

So is there really an 'apple' here or only a shape, color and a thought about 'apple'?
Can 'apple' be found in direct experience?

While thoughts are known, what they talk about can't be found in direct experience.


LOOKING AT AN OBJECT
Wherever you are sitting right now, look for an object to focus on.
Don't pick the object up or turn it around, just look at what can be seen without touching it or turning it.
Give yourself a bit of time with it, Just look, nothing else.

Describe what you see in direct experience.

Consider the back side of that object.
Can it be known what the back side looks like?
If so, what tells what it looks like?
Can it be known that there is a back at all? That the object is 3D?
Can this be known in direct experience?
Can an object be known at all?


With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Perhaps you missed this question? Please answer all questions in blue as best you can.

How is it for you when you are 'out in the world' interacting with other people?
Is there a flow and a continued sense of stability and clarity?

Can it be known that there is a back at all? That the object is 3D?
Can this be known in direct experience?

It takes a while, but yes, it's possible to directly experience.

This answer negates your prior answer! Perhaps the question was not clear?
Are you sure that it is possible to know there is a back, that the object is 3D?


LABEL / REALITY CORRELATION RED-GREEN

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.
This exercise is a little tricky, so please read the questions carefully.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label 'GREEN'' have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is the label ''GREEN' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN?

With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Sometimes its easy and experience stability and clarity, and sometimes there's discomfort, pressure, heat, etc.(can't pinpoint why there's an unexpected difference as I'm not judging or labeling people)

Yes, it is interesting isn't it, how sensations are always changing. Sensations are simply happening!

No, I'm not sure that there is a back. As you said, this exercise is tricky since brain has been trained for so long to perceive a certain way. In truth, there's nothing there but not sure how to explain it.

Looking in DE, you are only seeing shape and color. If you are looking at an orange on a table in front of you, you will see a round image of color orange. 'Round' is already an overlay of thought as is 'orange', but we can allow a little bit of description in the exercise, we don't need to negate the description completely. HOWEVER, we cannot see the back of the orange, we cannot see 3D, so it remains a (round) image of color (orange).

It is tricky because as you say the brain has been trained for pattern recognition as a survival mechanism and sometimes there is a resistance to simply SEEING without an overlay of thoughts about the object. I hope that clarifies things for you.


Regarding the Red/Green Exercise:

Actually, there is nothing at all...no associations with the labels and descriptions.

It is true that there is no association of the red color with the labels, but there is not 'nothing'. For instance:

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?
Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

There is a direct experience here, namely a word colored red.
In DE of seeing we can allow the seeing of shape and color, but we don't need to elaborate further as this will divert the seeing into thought content.

To continue: So......

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label 'GREEN' have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is the label ''GREEN' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN?

PS, Im sorry, I forgot to color the words 'good' or 'bad' when I sent you the exercise before.

Love Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

I feel that the first three responses need some clarification. Each question here is tricky!!
The exercise is pointing out the difference between a label about something and what can actually be experienced.
This is a key factor in being able to completely see through the illusion that there is a 'self' running the show.

Thinking about the color 'green' or reading about the color 'green' or hearing the word 'green' is an experience of cognition.
In DE we would acknowledge this as thinking, reading or hearing words, labels or concepts.
SEEING the color red is a direct experience, unless you are color blind and you might see something else.
You are being asked to look directly at the words/color, not to imagine, in your mind's eye the color. Imagining is not DE.

1. So, when you look at the word label 'GREEN', what is your actual experience?
Is the red color 'experienced' when you look at the above question, or is the color green 'experienced' as the label suggests?

2. Does the label 'GREEN' have a one-to-one correspondence with 'reality' (what you are actually experiencing in Direct Experience)? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

3. Is the label 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the color red; or is the word 'green' just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Your last two responses were seen perfectly.:)

Are you now clear that there is nothing green there to experience?
All we are doing is noticing that the words are not the things themselves - never have been and never will be.
Are you clear about that?

I will send a new exercise below.

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Here is an exercise which points out the difference between direct experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:
Thoughts with words "Here is a cup".
Visual mental images of a 'cup'.

So I invite you to do this exercise:

THINK of a cup, get a very clear picture in your mind.
See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. 
Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup? Can you pour tea into it? Can you drink from it?

Is there a "real' cup or just an image of a cup?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) 'real'?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images,
their 'presence' cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about, are not 'real', they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

Over the next day or so, I would like you to notice the content of thoughts.
Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it is about) is really happening, or whether the content is just pure imagination.
Let me know how it goes.


SECOND CUP EXERCISE
Take a cup and place it in front of you.
Start looking at it and notice any thoughts about the cup labelling what you see.
Consider the process of Looking.
Now consider the process of Seeing.
Watch your thoughts as you consider 'a seer'.
Watch any sensations in your body as you consider 'a seer'.
Notice what happens to Seeing as you consider a 'seer'. What changes?
Now:
Go back to watching thoughts about the cup as you continue to look at the cup.
After a while of watching thoughts, the thoughts will get bored and slow down.
Now look for spaces between thoughts.
Focus fully on Seeing in the spaces between thoughts.
Without labels there is simply seeing.
Colors, textures, shapes, etc. will be too subtle, too complex to be accurately described.
As this direct experience of seeing is happening:
Can a 'seer' or what's 'seen' actually be found?
Can a line of demarcation between seer or seen be found?
Or, is there just seeing happening?

With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Thanks for letting me know, I hope you get the rest you need.

Love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Great seeing! I will send you another exercise tomorrow.

Love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

I understand if you have a lot on, please take your time with this exercise and get back to me when you can.

INTRODUCTORY BODY EXERCISE

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Great looking/seeing with the last exercise.

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to?
there's nothing, but in language terms, it refers to perceptions, sensations, imaginations (self image)

YES!

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

vast expanse, difficult to put into words

I understand where you are coming from, but as a concession towards communication, please could you describe your DE of the body regarding the any one or more of the five senses.


In the first set of questions, before guiding began you wrote:

I spend a lot of time alone and would very much like to converse and receive honest facilitation/guidance, especially in context of that's offered here.

I have given you a number of pointing exercises and I can see how clearly you are seeing that the concept of "self" is an illusion.

Looking back over the thread, I see that I overlooked to reply to what you shared below:

I mostly speak with people online, yet can still feel the subtle shifts in energy with people. Sometimes its easy and experience stability and clarity, and sometimes there's discomfort, pressure, heat, etc. (can't pinpoint why there's an unexpected difference as I'm not judging or labeling people)

Is there an expectation here that subtle shifts in energy with people should not happen?
Is there an expectation for it to be always easy, feeling stability and clarity?
How does the body feel when there is ease, stability and clarity?
How does the body feel when there is discomfort, pressure, heat etc.?
Where in the body do those sensations arise generally?

You wrote "I'm not judging or labeling people."
But judging and labeling can happen, as can a pull towards or a pushing away from something.

Is there a subtle thought/belief about judging and other labelling?

Anything else you would like to explore?
Any comments about this guiding process,
how is it going for you?

With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Thank you for sharing. There are a few things you mentioned that would be worth exploring:

I feel restful and have much change in the works, with relocation, livelihood, etc. Maybe a brief exploration regarding my final release from immediate birth family. When I was younger, I would disappear and rarely stay in contact. I was on my own. There were several conflictual years of push-pull activity, and now, there's a deeper rest and acceptance. I don't have any fears on finally moving on, at the same time, feel that family will continue to try to check on me, worry, attempt to project...I would like to see if there's any blind spots, as I'm transitioning away from mother's home. This is not to bring up a narrative/story, but to fully understand why I was here and what brought me back.

I can see how being in this family situation would, under circumstances where the illusion of self was still in operation, be an extremely stressful one, but you feel restful and without any fears about moving on, and at the same time you are open to the possibility of there being blind spots.

Please will you elaborate on what you consider a blind spot to be.

You also mention that you would like to "fully understand why I was here and what brought me back."
Please take a moment and sit with this question:

"I would like to fully understand why I was here and what brought me back?"

Who or what is it that is needing this understanding.
What is happening in direct experience when you say these words?
What feelings or sensations are arising in the body?
Can you just be with this 'wanting to understand' and the sensations that arise without understanding being revealed?

I've had many insights and deep realizations lately and will be leaving mother's home in a few weeks. There was a "blow up" with a couple of older siblings. Basically, I'm not welcome here. Not for anything that I'm doing. I'm simply not able to engage with their expectations, and they get intensely upset. Of course, there are still a few emotional residuals around them, but no attachments. I don't usually bring up perceived problems and find that walks and sitting quietly quickly reveals the source more than talking about it. All in all, life is going well.

"Of course, there are still a few emotional residuals around them, but no attachments."

How do these emotional residuals manifest?
Thoughts?
Feelings?
Sensations?

I don't usually bring up perceived problems and find that walks and sitting quietly quickly reveals the source more than talking about it.

Is there an "I" who actually perceives problems or is it thought content?
What sensations arise when there are thoughts about perceived problems?
What do the walks and/or sitting quietly reveal as the source from your direct experience?
What is it that wants to find a source?

Is any of that "you"?

Do you control thought?
Do you control movement?
Do you control attention?
Do you control sensations and feelings?
Do you control or have responsibility over anything?

Is there any separate self whatsoever?

With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

That was a quick response!

Who or what is it that is needing this understanding.

actually no one
What is happening in direct experience when you say these words? actually nothing

Are you sure that there is actually nothing. We are not looking from a perspective of radical non-duality here.
Looking at this in DE is there not mental activity (thoughts), sound (if saying out loud) and some sensations all happening?

What do the walks and/or sitting quietly reveal as the source from your direct experience?

There is nothing there, yet the source of the sensations constantly comes and goes.

I am not 100% sure that I am understanding what you mean by the source of the sensations.
Is this a looking for a root cause, perhaps some trauma that has yet to be fully embraced ?
Do sensations have to have a source in order to arise and be felt?

What is it that wants to find a source?

Mind activity. It helps to simply practice mindfulness and to rest through the movements.

Yes, and to allow the sensations to be there fully without wanting them to disappear.
Allow yourself to be fully present to the movement of those sensations
Is there any gap or subject/object split between sensing and sensations?
Does there need to be any thought (label) as to whether sensations are good or bad?

Do you know this beautiful poem by Rumi?
"The Guest House."

https://grateful.org/resource/guest-house-rumi/



NATURE EXERCISE

I know that you enjoy going for walks.
Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move your focus your senses, see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours and shapes, smells, and body sensations, all coming and going.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Now close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

Is witnessing part of the one movement, too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.


With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

Thank you for your response below, it is a pleasure having this guiding conversation with you.

Any comments about this guiding process,
I don't have any specific questions or comments, yet grateful that you have freely offered to guide and facilitate the inquiry process. Thank you.

With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Anaeli,

There's clearly an arising of deeper feelings, but there is still spaciousness. It could be trauma residuals that are in the process of being integrated.

and

Yes, there's no resistance, avoidance, or judgement. Pure acceptance and compassion for everything that arises.

Beautiful!

Anaeli, would you like to receive the final questions that will bring this inquiry to a close?

But just before we close,

Please can you say a few words more about how seeing has affected or changed your relationship with life?

With love,

Rowena