Going home

[DragonHerb]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That what I take myself to be in everyday life is an illusion that it appears that I am a separate entity in a subject(me)/object(other) relationship. Me being a “hypnotic” like state, attached to thoughts that maintain the illusion of my story in time. The goal being to see through the illusion and be with/as reality as it truly is.

What are you looking for at LU?
Someone that has been through this before and can help me to identify and navigate through the blocks so that I can find the truth of life that I’ve sensed for as long as I can remember but have not been able to find.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I try not to live with too many expectations but I would hope for a guide to keep me focused on the optimal track and one that can help me see what I’m missing.

There are so many offerings in the world that it can get confusing and hard to know who/what is genuine or just trying to make a dollar, so a guided conversation with someone genuine might be what’s needed.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Meditation off an on for many years but daily for at least the last year. I have read many books from the likes of Osho, Mooji, Wayne Dyer, Don Miguel Ruiz, Lester Levenson, David Hawkins etc. Watching videos by Angelo DiLullo, Sadhguru, Tony Parsons etc.

I have done a bit of self inquiry work and trying to just hear, see, smell etc without the conceptual overlay.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Elad]

Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

5. This process is not about uncovering or resolving/getting help with shadow material. That might happen indirectly, but the process is focused only on recognizing that there is no separate self in control of things. Knowing that, are you still motivated for this process?

Warmly,
Elad

[DragonHerb]

Hi Elad,

Thank you for connecting with me so quickly.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

No questions at this time.

4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

I will try my hardest to stay with you on a daily basis.

5. This process is not about uncovering or resolving/getting help with shadow material. That might happen indirectly, but the process is focused only on recognizing that there is no separate self in control of things. Knowing that, are you still motivated for this process?

Yes.


Thanks,

Logan

[DragonHerb]

Sorry I realised I didn't provide a response to the first two points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

Understood.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

Yes I am willing to look deeply, engage wholeheartedly, and report back honestly to best of my ability.


I fell this is the most import thing in life at this time.


-Logan

[Elad]

Hi Logan, great lets start!

When looking only to direct experience her and now (which is the only "thing" our exploration should focus on!), not beliefs, memories, theories or other thoughts - is there a separate self/Logan? If there is what is it?

[DragonHerb]

Hi Logan, great lets start!

When looking only to direct experience her and now (which is the only "thing" our exploration should focus on!), not beliefs, memories, theories or other thoughts - is there a separate self/Logan? If there is what is it?

In the physical world my body appears separate to other objects. When I look for "Logan" there is nothing. But, the thoughts of Logan are quick to capture awareness and hold it in a firm grip. I also become aware of a rather uncomfortable "energetic" contraction in the lower chest area, that seems to exist most of the time but to a lesser degree when not looked at.

Behind all of that there is a sense of nothingness, nothingness that's not nothingness but has a feeling of aliveness to it.

[Elad]

Hi Logen, right on one level of description right hand is separate from left hand, and one body from others. On anything they are part of the same body, same whole. The core of this investigation is not about either of those levels of description, or thoughts about Logan, or sensations, however contracted or expansive. The core is: is any of it a real separate person in control of thoughts, perceptions, choices, and actions that is found in direct experience. Now tell me more about:

"Behind all of that there is a sense of nothingness, nothingness that's not nothingness but has a feeling of aliveness to it."

Does this sense of nothingness come and go? Is it separate from anything? How does it feel to be aware of it? Spend some time with these questions and let me know what comes up.

[DragonHerb]

Hi Logen, right on one level of description right hand is separate from left hand, and one body from others. On anything they are part of the same body, same whole. The core of this investigation is not about either of those levels of description, or thoughts about Logan, or sensations, however contracted or expansive.

Understood.

The core is: is any of it a real separate person in control of thoughts, perceptions, choices, and actions that is found in direct experience.

No, I cannot find anyone in control of anything in direct experience.

Now tell me more about:

"Behind all of that there is a sense of nothingness, nothingness that's not nothingness but has a feeling of aliveness to it."

Does this sense of nothingness come and go?

It's not noticed/given recognition when attention is taken up into thought, but when the thought releases it's there. Very briefly.
I would say it's always there just not noticed. When I touch into it there is a sort of knowing that it's always there.

Is it separate from anything?

No it feels like a stillness that gives rise to all form.

How does it feel to be aware of it?

Well until now I have never really let go into it, I still fell like I haven't fully but the closer I get the more I feel that this is what is looking though "my" eyes. More intimate than intimate. Both something and nothing, what is hearing and what it being heard at the same time ... if that make any sense!?!

As I write this it's the loudest thing in the room. The calm beneath the raging sea; thought, sensations, emotions are all there in full sight but there is this undercurrent of peace beneath it all.

There is fear that this will stop.

[Elad]

Hi Logan, beautiful!

Keep feeling into this nothingness/aliveness/that which is looking and not separate.

Just write me more about it sometime soon.

Can anything that comes or leaves be it?

[DragonHerb]

Hi Logan, beautiful!

Keep feeling into this nothingness/aliveness/that which is looking and not separate.

Just write me more about it sometime soon.

It’s what we feel in all those precious moments, the cuddles with a loved one, that warmth of a fire on a cold night, it’s what takes your breath away when seeing something beautiful. The brief satisfaction when a want is met or a goal is achieved. It’s what we are seeking. All this time falsely attributed to some external factor, but that was never true, it’s always been there, it just is. Every ordinary moment really is as breathtaking as those “special few”.

That longing for home I’ve felt for so long, the funny thing is, IT was in that too … the question and the answer intertwined yet somehow overlooked.

Identification with the story comes and goes, I get caught up in it, but then clarity comes and it’s seen through. There is no one there. If I rest there, it feels like the identity starts to melt or dissolve into it.

Can anything that comes or leaves be it?

I’m not sure how to answer this question. Nothing that comes and goes is it, but nothing that comes and goes is apart from it either.

Always there just most of the time covered up, like a dark cloud in front of the sun, the light is still shining -it’s daylight- you can see the cloud because of the light but the sun is obscured. Words are failing me here.

[Elad]

Logan, this is very beautiful, very lovely!

Now please tell me:

Do you control thoughts?

Do you control movements?

Do you control sensations?

Do you control attention?

Even if the answers seem known all ready please look openly and freshly to see in direct experience. The crux is not to think about it but be still and see in real time.

[DragonHerb]

Do you control thoughts?

No, thoughts just appear and disappear.

Do you control movements?

No, movement just happens.

Do you control sensations?

No, sensations just arise.

Do you control attention?

No, attention just moves.

Even if the answers seem known all ready please look openly and freshly to see in direct experience. The crux is not to think about it but be still and see in real time.

I notice that all of these things happen and then a thought comes to own/comment/analyse it, but the thought is after the event. The thought loops it back in on itself and pretends it had something to do with the event, but it doesn’t. The thought tries to relate everything back to itself but it’s not related at all; It’s just a thought.

[Elad]

Sounds very clear here. We have final questions in LU they are given when we might be towards the end of the process, they might elicit more inquiry and other guides look at the answers to, to see if something can be clarified further. How would it feel for you to get those now?

[DragonHerb]

Sounds very clear here. We have final questions in LU they are given when we might be towards the end of the process, they might elicit more inquiry and other guides look at the answers to, to see if something can be clarified further. How would it feel for you to get those now?

I keep looking and there is no one to be found, just thoughts, just a story. Then forgetting to look and being caught in the story, then looking, then forgetting, and on it goes.

Pose the questions and we’ll see how that goes.

[Elad]

Sounds very clear here. We have final questions in LU they are given when we might be towards the end of the process, they might elicit more inquiry and other guides look at the answers to, to see if something can be clarified further. How would it feel for you to get those now?

I keep looking and there is no one to be found, just thoughts, just a story. Then forgetting to look and being caught in the story, then looking, then forgetting, and on it goes.

Pose the questions and we’ll see how that goes.

Is there a self that chooses or controls this back and forth? Does it happen to a separate constant self?

When identification happens, what is mainly actually going on? Does it indicate a real self? Look at this, many times during a day, and report back.