Live now

[Jenny369]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is not real; it is an illusion made up of your memories, experiences, and conditioning that you have collected throughout your life. You perceive yourself to be something or someone that you are not

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to dissolve the self fully. I am looking for guidance to get deeper into my spiritual journey. Liberation unleashed will help me deepen my awakening and give me very clear parameters for crossing the gateless gate.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope the conversations will point to what I need to dissolve the self entirely and provide guidance for deep self-inquiry. I feel that I need guidance to help me permanently see clearly that there is no self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've had Vipassana meditation experience. I like to listen to Ehkart Tolle. I've read The Power of Now by Ehkart Tolle

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Elad]

Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

5. This process is not about uncovering or resolving/getting help with shadow material. That might happen indirectly, but the process is focused only on recognizing that there is no separate self in control of things. Knowing that, are you still motivated for this process?

Warmly,
Elad

[Jenny369]

Hello Elad,
Thank you for all the information and your time. I would like to let you know that I am ready for this process and commit my time.

[Jenny369]

Hi Elad,
Just wondering whether you received my last post?
Thank you

[Elad]

Hi Elad,
Just wondering whether you received my last post?
Thank you

Hi Jeanette, so good you sent me an email. For some reason I did not receive your responses, maybe I didn't hit the subscribe button properly. My sincere apologies, from now answers should be at least once daily. If ever not please email me again. Lets Start!

Looking only to direct experience here and now, do you find a real separate Jeanette/self/I? If yes, what is it?

Here's to a liberating exploration 🙏
Elad

[Jenny369]

Hello Elad, when I look at here and now I feel my body. I look around and see objects, colours, shapes but I feel sense of ease-relaxation-contentment.

[Elad]

Hello Elad, when I look at here and now I feel my body. I look around and see objects, colours, shapes but I feel sense of ease-relaxation-contentment.

Lovely Jeannette! (Do you go by Jenny?)

Now is any of that "you", a separate self?

Also please look to direct experience and tell me:

Do you control thought?
Do you control movement?

[Jenny369]

Hi Elad, No, I just go by Jeannette. My children sometimes call me Jenny to play with me but everyone calls me Jeannette. Thank you for asking.
To answer the question, "Do you control thought?"
A: No, the thoughts just come and go. They are just thoughts, and I have no control over them. I see them for what they are - only thoughts.
"Do I control movement?"
A: No, movement just happens. I have done the test where I hold my hand out and tell it to move to the left and it doesn't. Movement just happens - I do not control movement.
Thank you, Elad
I look forward to talking to you soon :)

[Elad]

Hi Elad, No, I just go by Jeannette. My children sometimes call me Jenny to play with me but everyone calls me Jeannette. Thank you for asking.
To answer the question, "Do you control thought?"
A: No, the thoughts just come and go. They are just thoughts, and I have no control over them. I see them for what they are - only thoughts.
"Do I control movement?"
A: No, movement just happens. I have done the test where I hold my hand out and tell it to move to the left and it doesn't. Movement just happens - I do not control movement.
Thank you, Elad
I look forward to talking to you soon :)

Hi Jeanette, very clear, great. Now look:

Do you control attention?

Do you control sensations and feelings?

Do you control or have responsibility over anything?

[Elad]

?

:)

[Jenny369]

Do you control attention

A: No, attention just goes to where it wants to go. I do not control it.

Do you control sensations and feelings?

A: I do not control sensations they just happen. First is the sensation and then the thought wraps itself around it to make it something and try and make sense of it. Feelings just come and are a result of an experience -the thought is after.

Do you control or have responsibility over anything?

A: I do not control life; life just happens. Nothing I do or say can change what is. I fill the space just like everything else in this world.

[Elad]

Is there any separate self whatsoever? What is reading this?

[Jenny369]

Is there any separate self whatsoever? What is reading this?

A: Sometimes I feel that there is a separate self, especially when I am getting ready for work, and I am doing my makeup and looking in the mirror. I get confused and wonder if it is a separate self or just a physical body doing what needs to be done to get through the day. Because I am putting on makeup, I wonder if I am being vain and thinking I am a separate self. I think that if I had no separate self I would not be worrying to dress nice and put on makeup when I go to work - this is where my confusion is!
Just reading-reading is happening - not identifying with the self - just typing and answering the questions -doing.

[Elad]

"Sometimes I feel that there is a separate self, especially when I am getting ready for work, and I am doing my makeup and looking in the mirror. I get confused and wonder if it is a separate self or just a physical body doing what needs to be done to get through the day. Because I am putting on makeup, I wonder if I am being vain and thinking I am a separate self."

What is thinking all this? Is there a separate self doing it or just thoughts, beliefs, sensations?


"I think that if I had no separate self I would not be worrying to dress nice and put on makeup when I go to work - this is where my confusion is!"

Its alsways great to make clear what the confusion is. Many times that alone dissolves it.

Is it possible to garden and appreciate flowers without self? Is it possible to paint and appreciate a painting without self? And how about put on clothing and make up and appreciate the aestetics and expression in that?

Also, just because self is seen through it doesn't erase the capability to be aware of self and others in the conventional sense of everyday life interaction, and to act socially in enjoyable or skillful ways - including to put on a mask when that serves a purpose.

Can you see that thinking otherwise is not seeing, just a prejudice about awakening?

As for being vain. The Buddha tried to eradicate all that, then discovered that this was in fact the ego illusion. The illusion of an ego in ultimate control and ultimately beyond normal pleasures and feelings. Instead he discovered the middle path: You are aware that worldly pleasures have no enduring or ultimate satisfaction, but you can enjoy make up and chocolate, you just don't cling to it, because you know its insubstantial.

Beside all this the vast vast majority of people who wake up still have patterns of vanity, defensiveness, etc It's not like all the habits of body and mind go away. It's just seen that it is all like weather... Without a separate self doing it or controlling it. This seeing by itself over time supports a balancing movement where unhelpful disspositions are let go of. But the pleasures of ordinary life can still be enjoyed.

Can you see that imagining otherwise is just a prejudice/fantasy about what seeing through self will be?

It's much simpler and in a sense undramatic. Just seeing that this/we are not the separate selfs that are imagined.

So: Is there a real separate self whatsoever?

[Jenny369]

So: Is there a real separate self whatsoever?

A: Thank you, Elad. You have clarified many things for me, and for that, I am very grateful. I have seen that the confusion came from the thought - the thought made the illusion of the separate self. Before the thought, there is no separate self. I enjoy the creativeness of life and just because I enjoy this doesn't not mean that there is a separate self - just experience!