Stream Entry

[Alless]

That's good Nicolas

You're coming to the foundational principles later in this post where there is pointing to Direct Experience.

With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

Hello Alan.

I'm on the expectations part, every time I read it I get it for a couple seconds but then the realization is gone. Ah this is going to take me a while. I'm trying to stabilize that knowledge, that understanding.

Hug

[Nicholas]

OK, went forward a bit more. Still trying to internalize the whole "no expectations" dilemma.

Hug

[Alless]

Thanks Nicholas.

A couple of things .......

Ah this is going to take me a while.

Can you see how this is an expectation?

I'm trying to stabilize that knowledge, that understanding.

Still trying to internalize the whole "no expectations" dilemma

There seems to be a lot of trying to figure this out going on for you Nicholas. It's completely understandable that we start out trying to figure this out. That is our default approach before we see clearly. However the truth is that this can never be figured out with the mind. It's this trying to figure this out that causes all the turmoil. This is why "another way" is the only way out of this dilemma. And there is "another way"

So for this reason I would encourage you to move to the last part of the post where "the other way " - DIRECT EXPERIENCE - is pointed to. And in the next couple of posts at least we will dive deeper into direct experience and what it really is as this is the fundamental key to this inquiry.


With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

What reaction do you feel as you've read that responses may be blunt? (That first reaction felt without dressing it up at all)

nothing, I have no problem with bluntness. I'm here to hear/see the truth.

How do you describe this illusion?

I don't know how to explain without repeating the same stuff. I'm under the impression that I'm controlling my body and mind. it's EXTREMELY convincing.
I've been living my entire life like this, why should I doubt it?

However, I know it's not true. On a theoretical level, something tells me "this is not real, I'm not in control"

Why it's an illusion? like I told before: cause and effect. A decision is just electricity from several neurons. those neurons have their own "agendas".
What makes neurons? I have no idea, but more cells? with their own agendas. And then? Am I controlling each one of these neurons? Did I take the decision or it was taken by a combination of brain patterns?

Is this something that you know from experience or is it something you have learned from others and accepted to be true?

I know from experience. The thought came by itself one day. I didn't read it or hear it from the outside.

Where did you go to find the answer to this?

Mmhm, I never tried researching this.

expectations

Ah, expectations. it's hard to get rid of them. Sometimes I "get it" and then forget about it. why this happens?

it's what all meditators are after, or well... mostly the buddhist ones. this is stream entry. the first path of the four.

Is this the truth and how do you know this is the truth?

Because from what I see, people that get into meditation are barely aware of the entire "illumination" concept, they just meditate for the benefits.
Then there are people that want to eventually reach "illumination" but then aren't entirely sure what this is.
THEN people that read into buddhism and stumble onto the four paths and all of that... they are more aware of these things.

Do you feel anything within you that objects or resists laying aside everything you have learned or think or know or read or have been taught and just depend on your own authentic experience for the duration of this exploration ?

All of this looking and work, seems like exercising a new muscle. I need constant rest. Maybe this is resistance? I don't know, I have to admit this is confusing.
It's like trying to see a new color.

I have no qualms with setting aside everything. But sometimes I understand I will still find automatic unconscious resistance. It's like muscle spasms.

Is there anything we have covered so far that does not sit well with you at all?

No, all good

What color do you think the heel of your left sock or shoe is?

white

Can you be 100% sure?

yes

When you LOOK DIRECTLY is it what you thought it was?

yes

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

One of the traps we can fall into without even noticing is going to memory (thought) for an answer rather than LOOKING directly.

Ah this goes against common sense, we use memory as a shortcut. it saves time.

What are you are seeing? (consciously avoiding any labels where at all possible - that is using the most basic descriptive terms possible.)

seeing
letter appearing in the screen
white from the notepad
numbers from the notepad
my hands typing
my hand going to the mouse
the bottle on the desk
a mark on the wall
cat lying on bed
books on the desk
trees outside the window

What are you are hearing? (consciously avoiding any labels where at all possible - that is using the most basic descriptive terms possible.)

hearing
cars outside in the street
the sound my keyboard makes when I type
the whispering sound I make while writing
myself sighing
my mother talking on the phone
a burp I just let out
birds chirping

-----

Can you see how this is an expectation?
..yes... I can see it.

----

Ok, I finished all questions and then read your last post. Ok, let's get deeply into DE.

I also wanted to tell you, I'm the type of person that analyses everything. I'm a brain type, a cerebral type, everything is meticulously planned and thought.

That's why I always resort to trying to understand things with my mind.

[Alless]

Good to see your post Nicholas

nothing, I have no problem with bluntness. I'm here to hear/see the truth.

Wonderful. This is what this is all about. And its about seeing the truth in YOUR experience - no-one else's


I'm going to work from the bottom up on your post. We'll go as far as we need to set the scene for the next steps.

I also wanted to tell you, I'm the type of person that analyses everything. I'm a brain type, a cerebral type, everything is meticulously planned and thought.
That's why I always resort to trying to understand things with my mind.

I see so many beliefs here. In fact, hanging on to this almost guarantees this is a futile endeavor. It at least will certainly lead to frustration.

There is so much identifying with who you think you are in these words that you write Nicholas. This discovery here at LU is about dismantling that identification. It is seeing that the "me" that is associated with that identification does not actually exist
This investigation calls for absolute willingness to letting all this go. Are you up for that ?

seeing
letter appearing in the screen
white from the notepad
numbers from the notepad
my hands typing
my hand going to the mouse
the bottle on the desk
a mark on the wall
cat lying on bed
books on the desk
trees outside the window

So much thought overlay here. If you are wondering how that is so, we will get to that shortly.

Ah this goes against common sense, we use memory as a shortcut. it saves time.

Yes, Nicholas, it does go against common sense. I suspect the reason you are here at LU is because you haven't found what you are looking for by "common sense" This common sense that you point to is the cause of all this suffering. Memory is so unreliable at best. What we are looking into here requires no memory. Again, looking to memory in this inquiry has the propensity to make this incredibly painful.

Ok, let's get deeply into DE.

Indeed we will. That is fundamental. You will see we can use the terms Actual Experience (AE) and Direct Experience (DE) interchangeably.


As a next step we’re going to look at a AE as you go about your day This will be very helpful in our exploration.

Here are the aspects of AE again from an earlier post

• color/image,
• sound,
• smell,
• taste,
• sensation, (not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
• thought(s). (but not their content)


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities
In this exploration I would like you to try as many times as you can throughout the day to label daily activities in their simplest form as one of the aspects of AE - whether you are experiencing either color or sound or smell or taste or sensation or thought.

So let's use the activity of having breakfast as an example.

You're sitting down having breakfast and you see a cup in front of you. As you look what are you simply experiencing here? You are experiencing colour.

So that would be described thus:

Seeing a cup, (you would label it as) simply = image/color

Then, for example, you find yourself wrapping your hands around a hot cup of coffee. Which aspect of AE are you experiencing here? It would be sensation. It is then described this way.

Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation

So for example, when having breakfast, the complete experience would be described this way:

Activity: Having breakfast
Seeing a cup, simply = color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

On the left of = is a made up story, content of thought, the way we normally think.

On the right of = is only one of the 5 Senses. That's still a story, but it's as simple as we can make it & still communicate.

This shows you to ignore thought stories & focus only on Direct Experience.

Why? Because "I" is a made up thought story that you cannot See, Hear, Touch, Smell or Taste. It does nor exist.

Let’s take another example. This time it could look like this:

Activity: Vacuuming
Seeing metal vacuum cleaner, simply = color
Smells of dust, simply = smell
Feel of smooth, slippery (electric) cords, simply = sensation
Tasting (nothing to report) = taste
Sound of “whoosh”, loud, ringing, simply = sound
Thought of “is this clean enough?” simply = thought

Just choose some daily activities ( brushing teeth, washing dishes, taking a shower and the like) and break them down into these aspects / categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations of daily activities in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Please let me know if this is not clear.


With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

This investigation calls for absolute willingness to letting all this go. Are you up for that ?

ah... yes... I see it. all of them are expectations. amazing. I'm going to pay more attention then.
Let's go.

Today while walking on the street I had this thought... I consider it some kind of progress but STILL... ok, look at it:

"life is like a game that is playing itself... like seeing a replay. normally I think that I'm playing, using the joystick. But the reality is that there is no joystick. I'm not playing. I'm not controlling it, I'm not even playing it why do I even care what happens in the game"

Now... the truth is that there are 2 problems with this line of thinking. The first one is that I'm trying to "see" using the mind... so... it won't work. The second problem is... who is watching the game being played? the thought consider there is something or someone doing it... but LU states that there's no one watching the game. Ah, it's confusing. of course it's confusing, I'm still analyzing it with the mind.

Anyways, don't know if it's worth sharing that...

regarding DE exercise, let me compile a couple activities and I will get to you tomorrow night!

[Alless]

You ask the question Nicholas ....

who is watching the game being played?

Wonderful question! Stay with that question and LOOK. Watch like a hawk for any tendency to go to the mind for an answer and simply LOOK for the "who" or the "what" that is supposed to be watching.
What is found?




Also ask "Where precisely is this watching happening?"

[Nicholas]

Hi Alan... here is the result of the exercise

Activity: Walking on the street
Seeing a blue van, simply = image
Smelling cars smog, simply = smell
Feeling the jacket on my elbows, simply = sensation
Tasting (nothing), simply = taste
Hearing people talking, simply = sound
Thought about the weather, simply = thought

Activity: Having lunch
Seeing white napking, simply = image
Smelling (nothing), simply = smell
Feeling my ass sore from sitting, simply = sensation
Tasting the soft drink, simply = taste
Hearing music from the tv, simply = sound
Thought about what to do later, simply = thought

Activity: Petting my cat
Seeing my cat, simply = image
Smelling (nothing, congested nose), simply = smell
Feeling the soft texture of cat, simply = sensation
Tasting the tea I drank earlier, simply = taste
Hearing the computer running, simply = sound
Thought about work, simply = thought

Activity: watching youtube video
Seeing video, simply = image
Smelling (nothing, congested nose), simply = smell
Feeling the mouse on my hand, simply = sensation
Tasting (nothing), simply = taste
Hearing the video, simply = sound
Thought about the video, simply = thought

Activity: washing dishes
Seeing water running, simply = image
Smelling unknown sweet smell, simply = smell
Feeling the sponge on my hand, simply = sensation
Tasting (nothing), simply = taste
Hearing the water doing sshhhhh, simply = sound
Thought about family, simply = thought

Activity: walking the dog
Seeing shops, simply = image
Smelling a lemon plant, simply = smell
Feeling the dog leash, simply = sensation
Tasting (nothing), simply = taste
Hearing cars going by, simply = sound
Thought about life, simply = thought

Additionally... I think this is relevant. There's music in my head 99% of the time. That's another thought. It's like a radio, happens on its own.
---------

Code: Select all

Wonderful question! Stay with that question and LOOK. Watch like a hawk for any tendency to go to the mind for an answer and simply LOOK for the "who" or the "what" that is supposed to be watching. What is found?

mmhm, there's still something here. a perception. I see a big ME.

Also ask "Where precisely is this watching happening?"

behind the eyes

[Alless]

Spot on with the exercise Nicholas


Now to make the most of this as you go about your day do your best - when you think of it - to experience the world this way. Through the senses without labels. Should it feel bland, basic or however it may described, this is because it is different to our default mode of invoking the mind. Or if you really let yourself experience directly you may be actually surprised at at just how rich life can be. Try and catch yourself labeling everything. It happens so quickly that typically we are not even aware it is happening. In doing this we can start to realize that in fact most of us are not experiencing the world as it really is but through our thoughts.

There's music in my head 99% of the time. That's another thought. It's like a radio, happens on its own.

Interesting !
Is this something new?

mmhm, there's still something here. a perception. I see a big ME.

It sounds like you are claiming there is an entity that was doing the seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting and smelling in the last exercise
Please describe in as much detail as you can this big ME that is seen - color size, texture, sensation for a start

Also ask "Where precisely is this watching happening?"

behind the eyes

OK I will now ask that you look not only behind the eyes but investigate ALL parts of the body.


Where am I in the Body?

Please do this very attentively because otherwise you will not have the direct experience. Also for each of the questions tell me your experience as you LOOK to where each question points.

Please look down at your feet right now. Very attentively. And ask yourself the question. Can you find a “me” or an “I” down there in those feet? Do those feet constitute me?. Do it as slowly and as attentively as you can. Do you live there?.



And now travel up. To the knees. Look at yourself from the knees down to the toenail. With the same question. Is there a “me” to be found down there. Is this you?



And now travel. Up to your waist. We travel up to the neck now, but you'll need to be more thorough and examine that body between the neck and the waist front and back. Are you there?



Outside and inside look right down into the inside. And ask yourself. Is this me?



And then from the neck right up to the topmost hair of the head. And be sure to LOOK and FEEL around inside the head and notice the brain. The ears and the throat. Look right down. Through the throat. Can you find yourself there?



Because now you've encompassed the body. Is this you? Can you find yourself anywhere? Anywhere at all? In all that you have examined inside or outside?



Now look behind the eyes, because sometimes we think that we are behind the eyes looking out. This is where you said the watching was happening. Is there actually a watcher there? Can you be 100% sure that you can find yourself even there?



And eventually if you do this faithfully IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL - not because I say so but because if this has been faithfully done, you have actually come to the conclusion yourself – to prove that you are your body or any specific part of it?




If during this experience you have not become fully convinced, if it’s not absolutely clear to you that there is no place at all within your body where you are then please do it again.. And if necessary, a third or fourth time. Until you are no longer taking my word for it. Until you yourself can bear witness to the fact that you have searched yourself thoroughly. And that you know that you are not inside of that frame.

So tell me Nicholas after all this direct LOOKING can you find a “me” or an “I” in the body in any shape or form whatsoever?




Is there anywhere that you SEEM to be?




Do you have any lingering doubts about what you have directly experienced here?




With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

Alan, I already have all the questions answered. let me try one more time tomorrow and see what happens, is that ok?

Hug

[Alless]

No problem with that Nicholas ! 😊

[Nicholas]

Now to make the most of this as you go about your day do your best - when you think of it - to experience the world this way.

how do I do this exactly? I tried to but got overwhelmed. the eyes are always receiving images, the ears always receiving sounds, the body feels things all the time, the brain emitting thoughts non-stop... images, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts everywhere all the time, all at the same time.

Am I experiencing them or actually I'm just classifying my experiences?

What if I don't categorize anything? Can I do something like this...?
Just experiencing sound and sight. instead of labelling... just seeing and hearing (taking those 2 for example) and focusing on sounds and visual, without
judging, without emitting opinions, without thoughts. Just fully experiencing what I see. just fully experiencing what I hear.

Will this be valid?

In case it's not... maybe I got the exercise wrong... should I do something like...

Picking random moments in the day and doing a quick run of all doors to see what I'm experiencing and selecting the first stimulus that comes to mind.
The first smell, the first image... and like you said... reacting with "sound" "image"... and so.

(regarding music in my mind)
Is this something new?

Nono, I've had this phenomenon my entire life. On top of the typical thoughts the average person has, I also have this constant radio that emits music the entire time.

It sounds like you are claiming there is an entity that was doing the seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting and smelling in the last exercise
Please describe in as much detail as you can this big ME that is seen - color size, texture, sensation for a start

Oh I'm so confused. I see myself as this "microorganism" inside of my head that controls the body, that sends the signals and gets feedback.
BUT I CANNOT PROVE IT.

it doesn't have any color. size? I guess it's is extremely small. Doesn't have a texture.
I can't see it.
I can't hear it.
I can't... think... it.
I can't smell it, taste it.
I can't feel it.

Because I perceive to be that cell, so I can't "see" with the different doors at myself, it's like an endless loop.

In fact it doesn't make any sense at all, does this "thing" have any eyes or hands, how does it control the body? Maybe it's like a dot. A dot of light.
I know I'm rambling, I don't know if its useful... I don't want to waste your time. But maybe this rambling helps me see the illusion?

But again, how do I know it exists? I can't prove that.
It's like a sensation, the sensation of being alive.

Ok, what if this organism doesn't exist? But then, what I am? a camera? because I have this point of view...

Please do this very attentively because otherwise you will not have the direct experience.
Also for each of the questions tell me your experience as you LOOK to where each question points.

Please look down at your feet right now. Very attentively. And ask yourself the question.
Can you find a “me” or an “I” down there in those feet?
Do those feet constitute me?. Do it as slowly and as attentively as you can. Do you live there?.

The feet is just feet, a part of my body. If I remove the feet... I'm still me.

And now travel up. To the knees. Look at yourself from the knees down to the toenail.
With the same question. Is there a “me” to be found down there. Is this you?

no, no "me" there. I'm not that.

And now travel. Up to your waist. We travel up to the neck now, but you'll need to be more thorough and examine that body between the neck and the waist front and back. Are you there?

No, not there.

Outside and inside look right down into the inside. And ask yourself. Is this me?

No.

And then from the neck right up to the topmost hair of the head. And be sure to LOOK and FEEL around inside the head and notice the brain. The ears and the throat. Look right down. Through the throat. Can you find yourself there?

Because now you've encompassed the body. Is this you? Can you find yourself anywhere? Anywhere at all? In all that you have examined inside or outside?

Mhm, I have the sensation that I'm around here but only because my eyes are in the head. What if my eyes were in my feet?
What if I had no eyes? what if I were blind?

I think... I would still feel I exist in the brain. Because that's were "everything" is created.
We can remove all the legs, body, arms... but if the brain is still working then I'm still there.

Now look behind the eyes, because sometimes we think that we are behind the eyes looking out. This is where you said the watching was happening. Is there actually a watcher there? Can you be 100% sure that you can find yourself even there?

mmmhm, I think it's the brain that is creating the self?
I'm super confused right now, I don't even know what I'm looking for anymore.

And eventually if you do this faithfully IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL - not because I say so but because if this has been faithfully done, you have actually come to the conclusion yourself – to prove that you are your body or any specific part of it?

Like I said earlier... I can't prove that I'm anything in particular. I think it's the brain that is creating this experience of self, of existence. And I'm experiencing it.

If during this experience you have not become fully convinced, if it’s not absolutely clear to you that there is no place at all within your body where you are then please do it again.. And if necessary, a third or fourth time. Until you are no longer taking my word for it. Until you yourself can bear witness to the fact that you have searched yourself thoroughly. And that you know that you are not inside of that frame.

So tell me Nicholas after all this direct LOOKING can you find a “me” or an “I” in the body in any shape or form whatsoever?

I think my brain broke or crashed. Now I know I'm not in the body, I know I'm some kind of illusion or projection created by the brain. But I still exist.
I'm still here. OK I'm not a microorganism or homunculus controlling the body.

What I am instead? I'm a projection of the brain, like when a (pardon the repetition) film projector projects a projection (AAAH). I'm the projection.
Like... some kind of a ghost, like an hallucination.

I don't know, this feels like the "I" is trying to escape or the brain trying to rationalize the existence of the "I". It changed but it is still there like a brain trick.

Is there anywhere that you SEEM to be?

Not in the body, I feel like I'm outside the body, but created by the brain. Super confusing right?
No, I'm not having an out of body experience hahaha.

Do you have any lingering doubts about what you have directly experienced here?

MMhm feels like the "I" is resisting, I think we have to keep digging! Eventually the illusion will be seen. What do you think?

[Alless]

Hello Nicholas

I know I'm rambling, I don't know if its useful... I don't want to waste your time. But maybe this rambling helps me see the illusion?

Here is the paradox. Rambling is useful until its not. When you ramble it leaves clues as to what might be calling to be investigated. So keep rambling as it gives pointers. Its these pointers that I will respond with rather than answering every question that you ask. BUT keep rambling and ALSO keep asking "What is doing the rambling?"
And right now do you have any inkling of what might be?

how do I do this exactly? I tried to but got overwhelmed.

Of course you're overwhelmed because you are trying so hard. What you are looking for is beyond knowledge, its beyond trying. Its what you are looking at that is the "veil" that is "hiding" what you are looking for.

I think my brain broke or crashed.

Now we might be getting somewhere. You don't need the brain to see this.

What I am instead? I'm a projection of the brain, like when a (pardon the repetition) film projector projects a projection (AAAH). I'm the projection.
Like... some kind of a ghost, like an hallucination.

As pointed to above the brain is not needed to know this.
Does a hallucination know it's a hallucination?

Not in the body, I feel like I'm outside the body, but created by the brain. Super confusing right?

Confusion is good right now, it is "progress" in this exploration.

What do you think?

Telling you what I think will not help one iota Nicholas. It just propagates concepts. But what I will do is point to where to LOOK and FEEL to discover the truth of the moment.

So here is another experience .........

Language itself is a labeling phenomenon and every word but a symbol. So what we are looking for here in this exploration is to reduce the description of experience down to the most fundamental, simple descriptor. That is, describing our experience with minimal interference from the mind - without adding the content of any thoughts or interpretations. (Mind is the term we use for streams of thought. While some would challenge that such a thing as a mind exists, for practical purposes here we will use the term “mind”)


Imagine what a baby sees when they first open their eyes.
What would you say they are seeing?



Do they have any labels in their mind?



If you asked a five year old what they are seeing, would what they describe be any different to what a baby actually is seeing?



If no, why not?



If yes, how would it be different?



PART II

Labeling is one "overlay" of reality that is happening so instantaneously that it happens for most people automatically without them realizing it. Labeling pervades thinking. The aim is not to rid ourselves of labels (we have to use them to communicate in conventional daily living) but to see them for what they are. Labeling is sometimes described as at least one step removed from reality.

Here is an exercise to help see how labeling can cloud AE. (I’ll use AE/DE as short for Actual Experience or Direct Experience - I might have already mentioned this ??)

It actually can often demonstrate very nicely how AE can be hijacked by the mechanisms of the mind so instantaneously without us having a clue that it is happening.

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN', what is your actual experience?



You are seeing green, right? Or as you look at the word green are you actually seeing red but believing the minds interpretation of the word green?



Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?



Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?



If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?



Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?



Let me know what is SEEN.




With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

Hello Alan!

BUT keep rambling and ALSO keep asking "What is doing the rambling?"
And right now do you have any inkling of what might be?

I’m doing the rambling, but I don’t know what I AM anymore. I’m not in the body. I’m a projection of the brain.

Does a hallucination know it's a hallucination?

I don’t see why not. An AI knows its an AI.
Oh wait that doesn’t make any sense. An AI was programmed, is not self aware. She knows its an AI because she was programmed to say so, but realistically she doesn’t know anything.

But we humans have the ability for self awareness.

Or maybe we are like AI and are programmed to say we know… but again, the truth is we know nothing.

I’m not seeing it.

Imagine what a baby sees when they first open their eyes.
What would you say they are seeing?

The world, mom, dad. the doctors.

Do they have any labels in their mind?

mmhm, that’s an interesting question. I actually DO think the baby has labels. They aren’t elaborate though. They are super basic things as “this is nice” or “this is not nice” BUT without using language. Its just sensations. “I want more of this”, “that friendly face I like it, that’s mom” “I like being held” “I like eating”.

But they aren’t exactly labeling, not with the complexity we do. But they do label. primitive labels.

If you asked a five year old what they are seeing, would what they describe be any different to what a baby actually is seeing?

If yes, how would it be different?

The kid has more complex labels, that’s all. “that’s mom”, “that toy is mine”, “this is my room”. They can communicate those labels. They are somewhat aware of labels. They baby doesn’t even know what a label is but still does it.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN', what is your actual experience?

Red text that says green.

You are seeing green, right? Or as you look at the word green are you actually seeing red but believing the minds interpretation of the word green?

No, I’m seeing red! I see the color red, but the text says green. the color green never appears.

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

The label suggests green but I see red. Does a green red exist? doesn’t make any sense. Does a banana apple exist? An apple with the shape of a banana, what is that? a banana or an apple? It is still an apple.

Here we have a green with the color red. Or we have a red with the label green?
It depends of whats prioritized.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

both are color, again it depends of what we prioritize. the label or the color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Mhm, if we talk about redness then I only see the color red and my mind omits the labels.

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

red is red, but I tend to associate red with bad. green with good.
Does it change reality? not really. its just the way we use those labels and colors.

Let me know what is SEEN.

I’m even more confused than before. I think it’s the way my mind works. I’m over-analyzing this and overcomplating it.

Let’s keep trying please.

Thanks Alan