Transcending the illusion

[MichelleR86]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding is that the concept of a separate self is a construct of the mind and does not have inherent reality. It filters reality through our conditioning, beliefs and memories

What are you looking for at LU?
I am seeking guidance and support in exploring the nature of my mind and the illusion of self. I hope to gain clarity, insight, and ultimately a deeper understanding of reality beyond the confines of my habitual thought patterns and beliefs. I am open to challenging my assumptions and embracing the process of self-inquiry to experience a greater sense of freedom , inner peace and awakening.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Supportive and insightful pointings to explore my beliefs, perceptions, and sense of self. I hope to gain a deeper understanding of the nature of reality and consciousness, while also uncovering any hidden biases or limitations that may be holding me back. Through open and honest dialogue, I hope to receive guidance, perspective, and encouragement on my path towards personal liberation and self-realisation.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve been practicing self inquiry for 2 years. I have a 1 hr morning sitting practise.
Prior to that I have practiced Vipassana meditation and attended 3 10 x day retreats.
I’ve been on the spiritual path for over 10 years.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Elad]

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

What may I call you?

Warmly,
Elad

[MichelleR86]

Hi Elad,
Thank you for offering to be my guide. I am so grateful and I am ready to fully commit to the process.
I have read the links you sent through. And I can commit to communicating daily and wholeheartedly applying the exercises and pointings you suggest.
You can call me Michelle.

Look forward to embarking on this process.


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[Elad]

Hi Michelle, lovely, lets start! Tell me, when you ask yourself what is Michelle, what is my separate self, what do you find?

[MichelleR86]

When I ask what is Michelle the seperate self I find a collection of memories, conditioning and beliefs. It feels like thoughts reflecting thoughts which creates the feeling of a self that I keep logging into which feels like it’s moving through time.


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[Elad]

When I ask what is Michelle the seperate self I find a collection of memories, conditioning and beliefs. It feels like thoughts reflecting thoughts which creates the feeling of a self that I keep logging into which feels like it’s moving through time.


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Hi Michelle, right so there are memories, beliefs, conditioning, and "a feeling of self".

Now, what is this "I" that is supposedly "logging into" that? Can you find it?

And what does the "feeling of self" consist of? Is there anything else beyond a belief, images, thoughts and body sensations?




Here is a little reflection to support the process of looking only in direct experience and an exercise for today:



Coloured Socks

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.





Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

[MichelleR86]

When I look for the “I” that’s supposedly logging in I can’t seem to find anything stable. I can’t seem to find anything beyond beliefs, images, thoughts and sensations.

I will apply the exercise today and i will report back.

Thank you for your guidance.


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[MichelleR86]

Can I just clarify when doing the exercise and experiencing an emotion is that just labelled under body sensation?

Thank you


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[Elad]

"When I look for the “I” that’s supposedly logging in I can’t seem to find anything stable. I can’t seem to find anything beyond beliefs, images, thoughts and sensations."

Right on. Now please look:

Do you control thoughts?
Do you control movement?

Regarding the exercise, next time you have a feeling look at it, what can you find in direct experience? Can you find anything else then sensations and thoughts?

[MichelleR86]

No I don’t control thoughts. They seem like reflections, just another automated function of the body like movement and all internal bodily functions.

I applied the exercises as often as I remembered yesterday. I could feel a difference when just seeing, hearing, sensing, and seeing thoughts without the mind projected labels. It felt like rather than me going out to the object it was instead being revealed to me, I felt more receptive to everything, and a feeling of expansion. I found it especially interesting when experiencing ppl it felt different like I was empty of self referencing and fully present and receptive to the other person.

I also found it interesting when experiencing emotions and feeling it as a sensation it changed the way it moved through.

I will continuing applying the exercise.

Thank you.


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[Elad]

No I don’t control thoughts. They seem like reflections, just another automated function of the body like movement and all internal bodily functions.

I applied the exercises as often as I remembered yesterday. I could feel a difference when just seeing, hearing, sensing, and seeing thoughts without the mind projected labels. It felt like rather than me going out to the object it was instead being revealed to me, I felt more receptive to everything, and a feeling of expansion. I found it especially interesting when experiencing ppl it felt different like I was empty of self referencing and fully present and receptive to the other person.

I also found it interesting when experiencing emotions and feeling it as a sensation it changed the way it moved through.

I will continuing applying the exercise.

Thank you.


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Beautiful!

Do you control attention?

Do you control choices?

Test it in your direct immediate experience.

[MichelleR86]

I investigated whether I control attention and discovered it’s just like thoughts. I’m not choosing where attention goes, when it logs into a thought or if it goes down a thought train. I’m not choosing what attention focuses on in the environments and what it filters out. It seems like conditioning and the unconscious direct attention and when investigating if I control choices it seemed like the same thing, I’m not in control of choices they’re just happening.


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[Elad]

I investigated whether I control attention and discovered it’s just like thoughts. I’m not choosing where attention goes, when it logs into a thought or if it goes down a thought train. I’m not choosing what attention focuses on in the environments and what it filters out. It seems like conditioning and the unconscious direct attention and when investigating if I control choices it seemed like the same thing, I’m not in control of choices they’re just happening.


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That's right! So there is no self in control of anything or?

How does it feel to see this?

[Elad]

Here is an exercise to deepen this seeing that is happening:


Stream Exercise
Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'insert name' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'insert name' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

[MichelleR86]

So there is no self in control of anything or?

Yes when truly investigated there really isn’t a self in control.

How does it feel to see this?

It actually feels quite freeing to see this.


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