It is still me

[Gas75]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding so far is that, the self is just a sensation associated with thoughts. That’s not my personal experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
LU claimed that they can show me experimentally that there is no me at the center of what I call my life. So I’m grateful if I can experience that directly, because I’m tired of just words and beliefs. I believe there is no me, but it seems me is always here

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like from my guide to be patient with me. For two reasons. First: I have difficulty expressing myself clearly. Second: I’m busy with work and sometimes I don’t have time and I might reply in few days or so unless I have a time.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I
have read a lot and done a lot. I even had some sessions of deep looking with Ilona. It has been years and I’m still the same in my path, no progress.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
8

[indranet]

Hello, my name is J.P and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions, if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.


What may I call you?

Warmly,
J.P

[Gas75]

Hi J.P.

Thank you for the reply and for taking interest in exploring this with me. I appreciate your effort and time. I read this near my bedtime. So I will get to tomorrow after reading and responding to the points you posted.
And you can call me Sal, a shortened version of my name.
Sincerely,
Sal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[indranet]

Sal,
I am looking forward to working with you. Don't worry, I am not rigid about daily posting.
J.P

[Gas75]

Hello J.P,

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

I will contemplate your questions and answer them from my direct experience. No theories.. No someone else words.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

I wish to see the truth as it is, even if it’s not what I’m expecting, that’s why I’m here. I’m also willing to look deeply and to answer you honestly.

Finally, I will do my best to check on this thread on daily bases and to engage with you full heartedly. If I can’t respond the same day I will let you know ahead of time and give you a time frame when I will be able to respond. I checked the two links about disclaimer and FAQ. I will spend sometime reading FAQ to have a grasp on what you are doing here.

I appreciate what you are doing and I’m ready

Sincerely,
Sal

[indranet]

Hi Sal,

let's get started.

From your own direct experience, can you describe for me how you know you are a separate, independent "I" called Sal.
Remember, direct experience does not include labeling by the mind.

[Gas75]

Hi J.P,

From my direct experience:

There is this sense that I exist. I’m here. When I look deeply where do I exist, I find this subtle sensation in my head. I’m in my head. And I’m surrounded by the whole existence, varying in distance.

My body is close to me, my car is far. The moon is much farther from me.

I’m separate from the rest of existence. Like I’m at the centre. It seems like everything is happening to me. When someone is talking, he/she is talking to me. When staring, staring at me.

I’m separate, I’m here and the chair is there. I have no connection with the chair. Even though there is no demarcating line between us, the chair isn’t me or part of me.

I think I didn’t answer your question of how I know I’m a separate “I” from direct experience.
I feel all I have used are labels. I have tried hard to find “How”. Not easy.
But there is one thing I feel might be a candidate as an answer, “the subtle sensation” in my head and the sense of my existence. Both confirm my existence and separation from the rest of the world.

Sincerely,
Sal

[indranet]

Sal, Good . This is how many of us would describe our sense of self.

I find this subtle sensation in my head. I’m in my head.

lets look deeper.

Examine the sensation in your head. Compare it to sensation coming from your knee. Is it really different? or is the difference the story we attach to it? Don't rush, look at other sensations , compare them without labeling by the mind.

[Gas75]

Hi J.P,

Examine the sensation in your head. Compare it to sensation coming from your knee. Is it really different? or is the difference the story we attach to it? Don't rush, look at other sensations , compare them without labeling by the mind.

I will look deeper and see if they are different. I will compare “the sensation in my head” with different body sensations and tomorrow I will report to you my findings…

Sincerely,
Sal

[Gas75]

Hi J.P,

I have looked at “the sensation in my head” which is me, and compared it to the sensation in my knee and I also experimented with sensations of other body parts.

I have noticed the following:

1- I have found that, the sensations from my knee, or other body parts, are clear and consistent. But the “sensation in my head” is vague and comes and goes.


2- “the sensation in my head” is associated with a very subtle image which I can’t make out any details. But it feels like me.
I have tried to make out details, but as if it is delicate, the more I put my attention on it, the more it dissipate.

From direct experience, both sensations (the sense of me and the sensation from my knee) are felt and they are there, but the difference is, I don’t confuse my self to be in my knee or other body parts. The sense of me felt like me and existing in my head every time I look.

Sincerely,
Sal

[indranet]

Sal,

But the “sensation in my head” is vague and comes and goes.

do you come and go?

“

the sensation in my head” is associated with a very subtle image which I can’t make out any details. But it feels like me.

A subtle image is not a sensation it is imagination. " It feels like me" is not a sensation , it is a label.

look again at the sensation in your head. Set aside your thoughts about it, is there really a sensation in your direct experience?

[indranet]

Sal,
I think you are confusing direct experience with thought.

Try this exercise.

Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities
Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-
Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

[Gas75]

Hi J.P,

do you come and go?

Obviously not. That’s interesting!

A subtle image is not a sensation it is imagination. " It feels like me" is not a sensation , it is a label.

I didn’t see it that way. You are right, it’s just an imagination, but I’m not making that imagination, it’s just there. And I can see now that I’m labeling that sensation as a “sense of me”. Without thought and label I don’t know what is that.

look again at the sensation in your head. Set aside your thoughts about it, is there really a sensation in your direct experience?

I looked again. It is not a sensation like the sensation from my knee. It has more quality of thought than quality of sensation

Sincerely,
Sal

[Gas75]

Hi J.P,

think you are confusing direct experience with thought.

Yes I believe so.

Try this exercise.

I would like to do this exercise today and tomorrow and report to you after

Sincerely,
Sal

[indranet]

Sal,

I didn’t see it that way. You are right, it’s just an imagination, but I’m not making that imagination, it’s just there. And I can see now that I’m labeling that sensation as a “sense of me”. Without thought and label I don’t know what is that.

yes , excellent observation.

I didn’t see it that way. You are right, it’s just an imagination, but I’m not making that imagination, it’s just there. And I can see now that I’m labeling that sensation as a “sense of me”.hout thought and label I don’t know what is that.

Yes, now you are starting to see.