Feet first (or should it be head first?)

[vinceschubert]

'morning James,

I'm stuck on thoughts always being about something

Say more..

so what is actual is subjective.

Yes absolutely. (we'll go deeper into this concept (ha) later)

that I can't seem to turn a cup into a snake,

Yes. This highlights the reality that we can't control anything. That which we present ourselves with is the result of an infinite number of circumstances.

So it feels I'm stuck with my personal subjectivity as an actuality.

Great! You got it in one..
The only 'thing' that is actually actual is our actual experiencing. (get the verb experiencing)
When you get comfortable with this (it can take a bit to settle into) then consider that you can experience a thought without engaging with it's content.
In the beginning, you will notice it's content, but it will be accompanied by another thought that reminds you that it is conceptual (about) and that at best it will reflect an extremely limited perspective (probably distorted) of something.
Later the whole thought will probably be dismissed as a waste of time (another ha)

with love

vince

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,


Loved your reply, about not being able to turn a cup into a snake, as an example of my complete lack of control.

I'm stuck on thoughts always being about something
Say more..

Are thoughts really about anything, they seem to be (most of the time), yet that's just another thought.
Also realised I'm deluding myself about any recognition of "that which knows", have no idea what that is, it was my thoughts
and ego trying to say they had a glimpse of it, no they didn't.


J❤️🤣

[jrm72]

Afternoon Vince,,


Currently sitting with the question, "what's true?, and finding no answer.


J♥️😅

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,

All I seem to be able to do is think, and in those thoughts is the realisation that my identification with thought is the problem/barrier that I'm banging my h3ad against.
As always another conundrum.


J❤️🤣

[vinceschubert]

...James,

in those thoughts is the realisation...

Ah, this jumped out at me. The realisation is not IN those thoughts. The expression of the realisation is thought, but the recognising happens at a body level.
If, while the mind is busy thinking, there is a subtle feeling that is a body yes.

As always another conundrum.

It's only a conundrum for the mind.

vince

[jrm72]

Hey Vince,

It's only a conundrum for the mind.

Yes.




I also realised (at what level I don't know) that its not that I'm identified with thought, it's more I never knew there was any other option.



J❤️🤣

[vinceschubert]

'morn'n James,

I also realised (at what level I don't know) that its not that I'm identified with thought, it's more I never knew there was any other option.

What other option has appeared?


Are you perceiving from that 'place' that Paul called "knowing" ? ..or somewhere else?

[jrm72]

Evening Vince,

I also realised (at what level I don't know) that its not that I'm identified with thought, it's more I never knew there was any other option.
What other option has appeared?

Currently it just the idea that being other than thought is an option.

Are you perceiving from that 'place' that Paul called "knowing" ? ..or somewhere else?

I'm not sure where I'm perceiving from, but it doesn't feel like the place called knowing.


J❤️🖖

[vinceschubert]

So, as an experiment, investigate right now if you can find a 'place' from which to (bodily) experience, a 'view' of experiencing. Ha!, and what you will be experiencing (probably not exclusively) is the attempt to do this.

much love

[jrm72]

Morning Vince,

Before I attempt the experiment, wanted to say I felt slightly envious of the people in the meeting who have had glimpses.

So, as an experiment, investigate right now if you can find a 'place' from which to (bodily) experience, a 'view' of experiencing. Ha!, and what you will be experiencing (probably not exclusively) is the attempt to do this.

Wow, not even sure where to begin. As "I do" this, it starts as thoughts about the bodily sensations I'm sensing. For example -
Mmm, my stomach feels soft, my jaw feels tight, hearing buzzing, elbows on table etc.
So the thought cataloguing of DE.
My initial idea is to try to experience things from a different bodily place than my head.
What this does is make me more aware of my head experiencing my stomach, or wherever I try to shift to.
The only way I can think of this working, is to have the experience from somewhere outside the body, looking back, but my thoughts say that is impossible.
I end up in that place, that as you have said before, is a conundrum, but only for the mind.


J❤️🤣

[vinceschubert]

I end up in that place, that as you have said before, is a conundrum, but only for the mind.

is it possible to observe that conundrum without engaging it?
If engagement happens, is it possible to observe that without opinion?
If opinion happens, is it possible to observe that without judgement?
If judgement happens is it possible to laugh out loud?
If laughing happens is it possible that you are not engaged with a conundrum?
Is it possible that what is happening is just happening regardless of what thoughts are doing?
Is it possible not to apply created meaning to what is just happening?

my love for you doesn't come from thinking.

much love

vince

[jrm72]

Hey Vince,



Yes - is it possible to observe that conundrum without engaging it?
Yes - If engagement happens, is it possible to observe that without opinion?
Mostly No - If opinion happens, is it possible to observe that without judgement?
Sometimes - If judgement happens is it possible to laugh out loud?
Yes - If laughing happens is it possible that you are not engaged with a conundrum?
Yes - Is it possible that what is happening is just happening regardless of what thoughts are doing?
V. Difficult - Is it possible not to apply created meaning to what is just happening?

my love for you doesn't come from thinking.

I'm lost for words ❤️





J🖖

[vinceschubert]

I'm lost for words ❤️

What? Not engaged with thoughts? Hahaha! roflol...

[jrm72]

Afternoon Vince,

What notices everything but says nothing? Not I.


That above text reads well, but it's my I that reading it, bummer.



J❤️🤣

[jrm72]

PS: I get that I don't get it 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣