Looking for others on this path

[KarenM]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Neither seem untrue, nor true. What is truth? Without labels, there is just experiencing what is. Labels bring in judgments, memories, feelings, associations, meaning that isn't absolute, etc. I notice what I'd describe as a dissociation. Like a not being in the body but just noting what it is doing. I notice that a million experiences are happening at once and moment to moment a new experience is in my awareness, the experience being written down, only one thing can be noted at a time, missing the other infinite things happening that I could notice.

[KarenM]

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? WHEN does the memory appear? What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought? How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened? Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’? WHEN does the future thought appear? What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought? How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen? Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future. What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future? If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

A memory is a thought based on an event that happened in the past, knowable only to the participant in the event. It is not known what makes a memory. We haven't found out yet. It has something to do with neurotransmitters and neurons; we know this because we see memories disappear with certain diseases like Alzheimer's, as the brain becomes damaged. Or rather, they disappear to the one who holds the memory, but they were never truly there to begin with, because they are thoughts. I suppose this shows that they aren't real, since they can be removed entirely from existence with removal of the rememberer.

A memory appears sometimes out of nowhere or sometimes when an experience triggers it. For instance, my brother passed in 2019 from a stroke caused by a diagnostic surgical procedure. I don't remember all of the events all the time, but he was a big sports fan, especially fond of The Chiefs who are playing in the Super Bowl this Sunday, so when the Chiefs are on TV, memories show up. But sometimes I will just think of him, and remember his life.

A general thought is just about what is present without attachment or judgement. Like the exercise I just did about writing experiences. Hearing traffic, seeing my iPhone, sensing an itch. Feelings (or emotions, whatever you prefer) are not noted. A memory thought, like with the candle example, brings up sensations associated with emotions. Or a memory thought of my brother brings tears to my eyes. I don't cry when I think "I'm driving my car", or "I'm washing my hair."

How is it known exactly that something happened? It's not. It's just subjective. I believe it happened. If you ask my dad, he will also tell you my brother is gone. But exactly how it happened is filtered through the "self" that isn't really here, so the memory isn't really here either, but it holds power (for now), and once my brain deteriorates, it will be gone. So it never existed?

I don't know how to answer what a future thought is made of. Words in my head? The feelings that come when I visualize what's to come? I really don't know. The future thought appears same as a memory, out of nowhere, or triggered, for instance we travel tomorrow for the Lunar New Year, and my phone reminded me to check into my flight. Perhaps as the day goes on it will come to me randomly again that I will be in San Francisco soon. I don't know, actually, if the thought refers to something that will happen. Maybe the future thought only reflects past thoughts about prior trips. My imagination making things up. Again, a general thought has no judgment or attachment. Future thoughts evoke feelings based on judgments and attachments. A future thought can't refer to something that will happen because I only have my past to form thoughts from. They are made up about things that don't even exist. If you want to get really metaphysical about it, you could argue it's all already happened, there is no time, so maybe there's some sense in me of what's to come because it is already over. Unknowable.

The difference between a past thought and a future thought - they are the same in terms of being made up stories, but past thoughts will bring up different feelings than future thoughts. Past thoughts make me smile or feel shame or feel disappointment or sadness. Future thoughts bring in excitement or anxiety, worry or hope. But neither are real, just thoughts passing through. You use the word "exact" and I can't tell you that. I don't know exactly. Do you have the answer?

I find it interesting that I was reading Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj this morning and the section I came to is called "The Person is Not Reality". He says "Be free of name and form and of the desires and fear they created, then what remains?" Whatever it is that remains, are we that?

Thanks!
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Hi Karen,

I'm not going to read all of that thinking. You must answer from your 5 senses only.

To help you see how that would go, please, read Gateless Gatecrashers downloaded from Resources, books here.

Thank you,

[KarenM]

Ok Stacy, thank you! I will continue reading the book and I am very grateful for the time you have spent on me. This has been very eye opening!

Best,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Hi Karen,

We are not finished. :) I just want you to get a sense of how guiding works and how brief your answers would be if you were not over-thinking things.

Let me know if you have any questions as you read and let me know when you finish.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

By the way, please don't post all the questions in a Quote and then answer in lengthy paragraphs of thinking.

Quote only one question at a time and give only the brief answer to that one question until you have done them all, please.

Thank you,

[KarenM]

Okey Dokey. I'll read on the plane. Just to remind you, I am out of town with only my phone tomorrow (no laptop) and may not have an opportunity to post - but reading the book will take some time anyway. Do you want me just to start posting again once I have finished the book?


Thanks,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Yes period that's fine period I remember and yes or post if you have any questions as you read through it

Loving

[KarenM]

Stacy,

Halfway through the book and two questions arise.

1. The guides keep commanding the students to "Look!". Look and see the truth of you. But who is it they are asking to do the looking? The "I" that doesn't exist? How does one look when they're not there to begin with?

2. It is said that thoughts come up, and that no one controls them. However, if one were to be told to "think of a pink elephant", the thought would come. If that direction weren't given, then there would be no pink elephant, or the likelihood of it would be much less. In these circles that claim one can change their life by changing their thoughts, and there is physical proof that change has occurred (i.e. spontaneous disease regressions), where do those presumably "better" thoughts originate from?

Thanks!
Karen

[Anastacia42]

1. It's just a paradox. Do not confuse relative with the absolute. Such as, there's no "me" who could "die," but if I step out in front of a bus, I will die tripped.

2. Because such results are unpredictable and never 100 iit cannot be proven that thought had anything at all to do with it.

Got it?

[Anastacia42]

typo "tripped" was what talk to text made of "period."

[KarenM]

Sure. There is an “I “that can get killed by a bus and an “I” that is untouched by experience. Is the paradox that the “I” that dies is actually required to know the “I” that doesn’t? I am curious to know this latter “I”, and can let the “I” with attachments go, as it is not real.

As for thought creating reality, perhaps what matters for our purposes is not to get attached to the thoughts and to see them come and go, regardless of their imagined importance.

Thanks!
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Karen, all of this thinking & analysis is useless. .

Please stop. Just LOOK.

LOOKING will give you what you're looking for. Analyzing will never help.

Loving,

[KarenM]

Hi Stacy,

The book is finished. There was no laughter of realization, but many of the cases were familiar. Moments of seeing liberation as a real state, but no feeling of huge release. Just reaffirming the knowing that there is no "I", which had existed for years. As they say, before and after, chop wood, carry water. There's an awful lot of thinking in that book, by the way.

Anyway, there will be continued practice with seeing, every day, that there is no self, and never was or ever will be.

Thank you for your guidance!
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Good enough.

Let's do that last pointer again. We aren't finished. There's a ways to go.

One question at a time, please.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,