"I have neither bondage nor freedom. (...) Oh, the universe, though existing in me, does not in reality so exist." (Asht

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

Sure, take your time. And enjoy the holidays if you are celebrating!

Thank you so much again for your guidance!

It's always my pleasure! :)

Love
Rali

[Lennart]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, in no way or form does there exist any separate entity like an 'I'. It's merely a construct of the mind that can't be verified beyond thought. Only "what is" is directly experiential, and this doesn't apply to the 'I'. In the 'beingness' of 'natural reality,' the 'I' does not and has never existed. To be more precise, one would have to say that the 'I' is a construct within 'collective thinking' or even a 'transmitted narrative.' As a little child, I had no concept of a separate 'self.' Then I was taught that I am "Lennart," and in school, through receiving grades, I began comparing "myself" to "others." One was constantly encouraged to consider "what one wants to become in the future" and asked how one envisions "life." I think all of this contributed to the establishment of the 'I' within the story told by thought. However, I must clarify that this explanation, ultimately, is just another story.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate "self" is a creation of thought, imagining a center from which sensory perceptions can be located in further illusionary models (body, space, time, relationships with other supposed "selves," etc.). The mind perceives this "self" as something separate from everything else it perceives, while in reality, the separation between the perceiver (subject) and the perceived (object) doesn't exist (outside of thought) either. Everything perceived as an 'object' by the 'I' is always perceived in relation to itself. Thinking interferes with direct perception by introducing labels like "pleasant/desirable," "unpleasant/undesirable," and "neutral/indifferent," maintaining the sense of separation. This feeling can refer to the feeling a separation between "me" and the "world" or the "others," or the separation from things or states that one believes will bring fulfillment. The "self" either hopes for such "moments of relief" from unfulfillment/separation, longs for perceived moments in the past when it believes it was fulfilled and full of happiness, or anxiously hopes that feared situations in the future will not occur, or regrets what happened or did not happen in the past. Thus, self-centered thinking constantly revolves around the future or past, never allowing direct experience in the 'present moment,' wherein it must be clarified that the 'present moment' is ultimately just as illusory as "past" and "future." The "self" is constantly searching for itself but can neither search nor find because it doesn't exist. The only thing that creates suffering is the search itself, so the cessation of suffering is not possible through finding but solely by ceasing to search. However, in reality, there is no one who could search or give up the search. All of this is nothing but an illusion created by the mind. The illusion of the self also includes the belief that one could manipulate reality to match the self's expectations or that one is responsible for the success or failure of things expected by the self.

From my own experience, I can say that the illusion of the separate "self" begins as soon as thought:
- makes a distinction between "me" and the "others" (things or people).
- makes evaluations.
- relates 'others' behavior to 'itself' and believes this interpretation to be true.
- says that reality should not be as it currently 'is' or that something should have been different than it 'was'.
- asks why about thoughts and feelings and starts to 'analyze,' that is to invent a story as an explanation.
- says: "I should have done that differently." / "I am to blame for it happening this way," or "I am proud to be the cause of this situation," etc.
- says: "I am like this," or "My life is like this" … "because this and that happened to me in the past" or "It was clear that this had to happen to ME again." or "Why can't things work out for ME once in a while?"
- has positive or negative expectations.
- projects a "you" along with various presumed characteristics onto 'others.'
- identifies with the body, feelings, things, situations, places, activities, narratives, habits, traditions, values, groups of people, images, ideas, preferences, dislikes, opinions, beliefs, etc., and thereby creates a "self-image."
- wishes for 'others' to like, understand, or appreciate "me".
- wonders what 'others' think of "me".
- says that it shouldn't be that "I" am having these feelings now.
- says: "This situation/place/activity/person etc. does not fit with me."

(This is surely just a fraction of examples but everything that comes to mind at the moment.) ;)

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels liberating. I think I'll expand this list and use it as a tool in moments when my perspective might be less clear. It seems to be a very good aid.
An example from the past few days for a change I observed is this: Yesterday during breakfast, there was a discussion between my sister and my mother. My sister made a comment, and I observed how my thoughts evaluated it. Previously, I probably couldn't have observed it with the same calm attention and might have responded directly with criticism. This time, I just listened and let them discuss without saying anything and consequently without taking anyone's side. While listening, I noticed that my sister didn't really mean exactly what my thoughts reflexively had interpreted initially. It became evident to me that my reception of her comment was filtered through my conditioning. This was an experience I found very refreshing and relieving because what I believed I already "knew" was simply replaced by just listening without much interference of a "self."

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was the exercises for direct experience that you gave me. What pushed me over was the clear perception that particularly everything I "simply feel" has no difference within it, whether labeled by thought as tingling, pain, contact with an object, the feet touching the ground, cold, warmth, and so on; and also the fact that neither the form, size, nor weight of 'my body' is directly perceivable.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

The belief in the possibility of 'decision' is an illusion. What the mind falsely interprets as 'decision' is, in reality, rather the result of a complex sequence of factors, experiences, and conditions that lie beyond thought and over which the "self" has little or no influence. 'Decisions' are thus merely what seemingly "happens" and not the product of a conscious intervention by a "self." (Nevertheless, this explanation is another story told by thinking, too.)
I have been at my mother's since the fay before yesterday to spend the Christmas holidays with her and my sister. The journey did not go as planned. Due to a severe storm in northern Germany, my train couldn't continue because parts of the railway were blocked by fallen trees. I found myself stranded at Hamburg Central Station along with hundreds of other agitated people. It wouldn't have stressed me as much if I hadn't had the cat with me. She was quite frightened by the chaos and the crowds. The station was large, I had no idea which train to take towards my hometown, but eventually, I managed to board another train in time. The weird thing was: I had actually already 'decided' to go back to Schwerin and was already on the stationary regional train to Schwerin, but then I saw the express train to Hannover arriving on the opposite platform and reflexively boarded that instead. In that situation, I observed that (conceptual) thinking was almost absent and completely unnecessary to deal with the situation, and no 'decision' was made by any supposed 'self'.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

'Intention' is linked to the striving of the "self" to fulfill its desires or achieve certain goals. "I" do something "in order to...". It is the product of limited thinking based on the identification with the "self," while the natural state of things remains untouched and beyond any intention. What is, simply is, and does not require an "in order to..."
When I was on the train to Hannover, the stress was physically palpable, and I experienced slight circulation problems. I noticed a hint of bad mood and the desire for the unpleasant physical sensation to be absent. Then I recalled something Pernille Damore said in one of her videos about "the joy of experiencing." I closed my eyes, stroked the cat, and in direct experience, inquired into the sensory perceptions. There was just purposeless seeing (even with closed eyes), hearing, feeling, and thinking (in the sense of 'gaps' before thoughts arise). There was indeed a certain joy in that, but it was beyond "pleasant," "unpleasant," or "indifferent." The "joy of experiencing" doesn't require intention, any goal to be achieved, and it is available at all times.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

The so-called "free will" is rather the result of conditioned patterns, experiences, and conditions that influence the "action" without a truly autonomous process that could be called an expression of free will. The concept is also based on the false assumption that there is a separate "self" capable of "wanting" independently of its environment and conditioning.
When I finished my studies, I "wanted" to write a doctoral thesis, and back then, I was completely convinced that this was my "free will." Today, I would rather say that thinking it was desirable to have an academic title was a product of my upbringing and education, strongly influenced by the value system of my environment. Ultimately, however, I never finished that doctoral thesis, and that too was not a 'result' of 'free will.' I felt so uncomfortable in the academic environment that, as a bodily reaction, I constantly got herpes. And when I went to Moscow for a one-year doctoral scholarship, I got so sick in the first month that I had to take antibiotics for three months and spent hours in a doctor's waiting room every other day. As I slowly recovered, there was simply nothing left of the "enthusiasm for research." I'm not saying that "my body," "fate," or anything similar was trying to tell me something. I would rather say that circumstances just unfolded that way at the time, but retrospectively, I constructed the story in a way that made me believe everything was "my free will." Even if such a thing existed, the supposed "consequences" of this "free will" would still be so unpredictable, influenced by countless other factors, that its impact would still be considered remarkably minimal.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

The notion of personal "choice" is a creation of the mind that believes in an individual, detached self capable of choices, whereas in the natural state of being, everything already "is" without needing a choice by a "self" to (apparently) "happen."
This became particularly clear to me during the exercise where I was to inquire into whether the thought "I am now doing this or that" is truly the cause of the "movement"/"action," and I directly experienced that it was not. Supposed "actions" are just like everything else, mere "things" that seemingly "happen." There is no entity like a separate "self" controlling them.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is another of those illusions, and believing in it is a source of stress and suffering. What seemingly happens is unforeseeable for the thinking mind, and attempting to gain control ultimately leads to frustration. Only by letting go of control can awakening be present and the search end.
Almost three years ago, I definitively quit smoking and drinking alcohol. It was addictive behavior that had long troubled me and affected my life, and several attempts to quit had failed. I believed I simply had to be strong-willed and gain control over my habits. That seemed to work for a while, but only with incredible effort, and eventually, I relapsed because it was impossible to sustain the (illusion of) control in the long run. It was incredibly exhausting and frustrating. Eventually, it just naturally happened that every time I drank alcohol or smoked a cigarette, I found the taste disgusting and the (physical and mental) effects unpleasant. So, drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes simply ceased without "me" really having "control" over it.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What the mind labels as 'happenings' or 'things' isn't driven by a specific cause. "Causality" is also just a concept created by the mind. It simply is what it is. 'Happenings' can only exist under the condition that there is "space" and "time." However, these also do not exist outside of thinking. But assuming that 'things happen' and wanting to attribute it to something would involve such a multitude of factors that it's impossible to ever grasp them.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I am not "responsible" for anything because the notion of personal responsibility is also an illusion. There are no separate individual "actors," at best "instruments" of what unfolds spontaneously or seemingly "happens." Hence, there is no one experiencing the "consequences" of "actions."
I work as a German teacher for refugees, and one of my students was quite behaviorally disruptive at the beginning of the course, a bit disrespectful, often blurting out things in class that were unrelated to the content being taught. This went on for about three weeks until I eventually lost my composure and admonished him somewhat unfriendly, yet due to a misunderstanding on my part because this time he had actually asked something related to the lesson. But I was stressed and internally geared up for him to "disrupt the class again." After the lesson, the student was very upset and complained about me in fron of my colleague. I remained calm, apologized to him for misunderstanding and reacting irritably, and explained that I find it difficult to stay focused and relaxed when someone constantly interrupts the class. I wasn't angry with the student because I realized he couldn't help himself, as his behavior and reaction are products of multiple factors he didn't choose or was able to influence, and therefore, he holds no "responsibility" for them. Nor do I blame myself for my loss of composure because, just like him, I couldn't help my reaction. Understanding that neither he nor I are "responsible" for this small conflict helped me stay calm and not escalate it into a bigger issue. By now, I get along well with the student, and we have a nice, humorous relationship.

I don't have anything to add apart from expressing my gratefulness to you again! Thanks a lot for your time and effort!
Lots of love from my hometown Werther in Westfalia to Johannesburg! Hope you're having a good time with your loved ones!

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart
Welcome home!

Thank you for your beautiful answers! It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

You will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

I also think that you would make a wonderful guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it helps to deepen your understanding.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference.
________________________________________________
Meet up with Vince Shubert (For LU seekers & guides)
Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.
As far as I know, there is one each Monday 6 am Sydney DAYLIGHT SAVING time – AEDT
There is also one each Saturday at 9pm (AEDT)
There is a Guide training one each Monday 5am Sydney DAYLIGHT SAVING time - AEDT
Please note that it's always the same time on the same link. Arriving late and leaving early is fine.
You can convert time zones here; https://www.worldtimebuddy.com
Click here to Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768...
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035
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Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays 6 pm CET. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/@LuchanaLubo/streams
________________________________________________
Ilona's Meetings
Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule
__________________________________________________
(videos)
Hi everyone.
Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.
https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4
Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate
Ilona


For Fetters:
Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks.
There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.
And Kevin Shinilac has instructions on his site https://www.simplytheseen.com/

Love
Rali

[Lennart]

Thank you for your beautiful answers! It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

No, I have to thank YOU for the wonderful exercises and questions which I enjoyed a lot! :) They really were a great help to me. I felt very well accompanied!

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

Thank you! It's great to know there is someone I can turn to when I have doubts or questions. I received your private message. I'll contact you by e-mail since I don't use social networks otherwise. I will also see if I can participate in one of the groups.
I wish you pleasant holidays and "einen guten Rutsch ins Neue Jahr" (= "a good slide into the New Year", although I know you don't have ice and snow over there right now)! ;)

Have a very good time and take care!
LOVE,
Lennart

[poppyseed]

Hi Lennart

I'll contact you by e-mail since I don't use social networks otherwise. I will also see if I can participate in one of the groups.

You can also continue writing here :)

I wish you pleasant holidays and "einen guten Rutsch ins Neue Jahr" (= "a good slide into the New Year", although I know you don't have ice and snow over there right now)! ;)

Well it's quite wet here at the moment so sliding in the New year is exactly what is happening :). Happy holidays to you too!

Love
Rali