Where to start

[Seekingstill]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? There is no self, it is an illusion created by the mind resulting in suffering

What are you looking for at LU? To drop the illusion of a self and to awaken to the reality of no self and end suffering. I have read Ramana Maharshi’s who am I, I am familiar with Nisargadatta’s I am that. I have been listening to nondual teachers on YouTube from all traditional backgrounds and no traditional backgrounds. I’m trying to do the self inquiry process.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? To drop the illusion of a self and to awaken to the reality of no self and end suffering, I am using the self inquiry method which seems to be the fastest process to achieve my goal. I do not know whether i am doing correctly. I’m expecting a guide to let me know if I’m doing correctly, to help me progress , to avoid any pitfalls on this path or simply to point.” I “realize that this is also an illusion, there is no path, but I cannot drop this “I”. I understand it only intellectually with the mind. I am not “aware” of it the way Ramana or Nisargadatta were, beyond mind, beyond consciousness

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Years of attempting meditation(mantra, inner light and sound), getting no results, I have had no profound or any inner experiences , I have never experienced spiritual bypassing, or anything out of the ordinary. I don’t expect to with self inquiry either, with self inquiry I just want to stop all delusions

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[CherylVT]

Dear Seekingstill,

(is that what you prefer to be called?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Cheryl, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Also now is a good time to ask you to read through some important links and let me know if you are OK with everything before we get started.

1) The LU Disclaimer: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do so as well.

What time zone are you in?

I’m in the Eastern time zone of the United States—GMT-5

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.

Love
Cheryl

[Seekingstill]

I am ok with everything. I had trouble posting this yesterday, The server did not seem to be working.

What time zone are you in ?

I am in Texas, US central standard time

[CherylVT]

Dear SeekingStill,

I apologize for my delay in responding to you. I forgot to click the box to be notified of your response.

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

I write the pointing questions that I want answered in blue to distinguish them from the rest of the text.
You don’t have to use any other color, but please watch the video on quoting (link in my first message) as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.

If you see a question in blue please answer it.

And one more thing for today

There is no separate self, never has been and never will be. That there is, is all just a made up story.

What reactions - from none to subtle to strong - come up when you read that statement?


Love,
Cheryl

[Seekingstill]

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

My outer world will remain the same, my expectation is that my inner world will respond differently. Right now I still identify with pain as happening to me, I hope at the end of this process there is no separate self from the world and therefore no one to feel the pain.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

End the cause of suffering which is identification with a self

3. What do you want not to happen?

That Nothing happens, I don’t want to be stuck in the same place I am currently stuck in.

4. What are you hoping for?

Freedom from my mind/self

5. What is missing?

Freedom from my mind/self

There is no separate self, never has been and never will be. That there is, is all just a made up story.

What reactions - from none to subtle to strong - come up when you read that statement?

There is a little contraction in my heart, but very little, hardly noticeable unless I am paying attention to it. I already have this “belief”, and know it intellectually, but as I am typing this answer there is frustration that I have not “realized” it. Tears are coming that I cannot awaken to this reality. I cannot go beyond the concept. Lots of frustration.

[CherylVT]

Dear SeekingStill,

Now, about expectations…
It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions are a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult.

Anytime you feel stuck, come back to expectations, if there is something that you think that should be happening, but it isn't- there is an expectation behind it. They are not useful but in the way.

I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation that you can have is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary.

Love
Cheryl

[Seekingstill]

Ok, no expectations. What happens next?

[Seekingstill]

Ok, no expectations. What happens next?

[Seekingstill]

?

[CherylVT]

Dear SeekingStill,

What comes up when you read that there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

If you look for the I, what is there?

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

Where exactly did you look?

What exactly did you find?

Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything.

Love,
Cheryl

[Seekingstill]

What comes up when you read that there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

It’s true, even if “I” don’t know it. I “feel” it’s true

If you look for the I, what is there?

When I close my eyes,Empty space with thoughts. When I open my eyes, a body with thoughts

If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up?

It is true, yet I am still witnessing the doer, thinker, experiencer… When does the witnessing stop? There is still a feeling in my heart when I am witnessing

Where exactly did you look?

I am “looking/thinking” within and feel my heart as “me”. I feel me breathing and my chest moving up and down.

What exactly did you find?

Nothing, just thoughts on how to answer these questions. These thoughts comes up “I feel nothing” “my chest is moving up and down with my breathing” “am I doing this correctly?” “The intellect corrects me that there is no “correct way” to do this” “There is no doing” all thoughts. When do the thoughts stop? Need I go on?

[CherylVT]

Dear SeekingStill,

When does the witnessing stop?

Witnessing doesn't stop for a long, long time. In fact, some paths end with the witness still intact (e.g., the "I Am Awareness" paths, for instance). Here at LU, we put the other teachings aside.

There is still a feeling in my heart when I am witnessing

Does the I, me, or mine live in the heart?
Can you describe this feeling?

When do the thoughts stop?

Thoughts never stop. They may thin out, but they never cease. Your relationship to thoughts may change.

Love,
Cheryl

[Seekingstill]

Does the I, me, or mine live in the heart?
Can you describe this feeling?

No, the I, me, or mine does not live in the heart. But when I "look" for the I, the heart is where I feel "something". It is hard for me to describe. It is like having butterflies in your stomach but only in the chest area, it is like a "pressure". My sense of self is there, I suspect once this feeling stops, I will stop identifying with "I". Not sure how/when/if I'll ever get rid of the feeling.

[CherylVT]

Thank you Seekingstill.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple
Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.


When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only more thought.
Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.
This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?
Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Love,
Cheryl

[Seekingstill]

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Not sure

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is only color and thought ABOUT apple

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

If you are referring to a real apple at the present moment, then No. IF you are referring to the picture of an apple, then no, it is a picture of an apple. I only have the picture in front of me and not a real apple.
If I had a real apple in front of me right now, then yes it can be found in actual experience, but only because I'm a human being who speaks english and knows what apple means.

However, is an apple actually known?

Not sure what you mean. If I don't know the word apple, then apple is not known to me.