Hi Elad,
Things happen here. A much lighter body, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) Much less thoughts and much less getting lost in them. There is more calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. , unknown territory.....More resting and les restlessness.
There is in direct experience no doer/self/controller. That is as clear as the sky on a sunny day now. None of what I experience, not even the thoughts and the "I" thought is any self/or real entity/controller. Those I thoughts are just thoughts and it happens that it is believed for a very short time and then released, but it is not any doer or controller... Just a passing thought, a habit in believing in the "I" thought might happen from time to time, but even that is seen and dropped. So there is no doubt, expect a distant little unformed thought far away.... but not believed anymore. It as well can be there till it leaves.
THere is nothing missing at all. Nothing needs to be added to what is right here. It is as before but more free. It is like a burden of the "me" has lifted away a weight from the body. Even the sensations,emotions, now not attached to the "I" thought, are welcome to stay and be felt. And if the labelling happens there is the knowing out of direct seeing that it is not true. The mind can not understand this, so the thoughts start trying to make sense of it all and then give up and the attention goes to what is here now. It feels like this is a fresh start and more is going to unfold.....
I want to thank you and thank you is not enough. There is huge appreciation here for you guidance. Hope to be able to do that also one day if Life want that to happen.... Is it okej if I keep in touch if something comes up that needs some good clear eyes and questions to be cleared. I will miss you and our dialog and there is a bit sadness here of letting go of this.... but all i well and I see you as my dear friend now. I wish you all the best and so happy that you are doing this. So many beings can do this, completele free. So amazing. "You" are amazing :-) Much Love
Thank You already
Re: Thank You already
[quote=Pohjantahti post_id=381616 time=1701271860 user_id=15684]
Hi Elad,
Things happen here. A much lighter body, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) Much less thoughts and much less getting lost in them. There is more calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. , unknown territory.....More resting and les restlessness.
There is in direct experience no doer/self/controller. That is as clear as the sky on a sunny day now. None of what I experience, not even the thoughts and the "I" thought is any self/or real entity/controller. Those I thoughts are just thoughts and it happens that it is believed for a very short time and then released, but it is not any doer or controller... Just a passing thought, a habit in believing in the "I" thought might happen from time to time, but even that is seen and dropped. So there is no doubt, expect a distant little unformed thought far away.... but not believed anymore. It as well can be there till it leaves.
THere is nothing missing at all. Nothing needs to be added to what is right here. It is as before but more free. It is like a burden of the "me" has lifted away a weight from the body. Even the sensations,emotions, now not attached to the "I" thought, are welcome to stay and be felt. And if the labelling happens there is the knowing out of direct seeing that it is not true. The mind can not understand this, so the thoughts start trying to make sense of it all and then give up and the attention goes to what is here now. It feels like this is a fresh start and more is going to unfold.....
I want to thank you and thank you is not enough. There is huge appreciation here for you guidance. Hope to be able to do that also one day if Life want that to happen.... Is it okej if I keep in touch if something comes up that needs some good clear eyes and questions to be cleared. I will miss you and our dialog and there is a bit sadness here of letting go of this.... but all i well and I see you as my dear friend now. I wish you all the best and so happy that you are doing this. So many beings can do this, completele free. So amazing. "You" are amazing :-) Much Love
[/quote]
Dear Mica, so much beauty here. I am happy for you and feeling lots of appreciation for you. I will be happy to be friends after, and you will always be welcome to ask questions. Once you graduate from LU we can connect on the Unleashed forum of Facebook. Before that please answer the following questions. I and 3 other guides will look to see if anything can be further clarified. Maybe you can copy some of your last message into these questions, since you answer lots of it there, do as feels good, but we need it in the format below for the other guides. Also I can imagine you becoming a skilled guide when you feel ready for it. We can talk about that also after.
Please answer all the questions below in one message. Please make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
Hi Elad,
Things happen here. A much lighter body, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) Much less thoughts and much less getting lost in them. There is more calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. , unknown territory.....More resting and les restlessness.
There is in direct experience no doer/self/controller. That is as clear as the sky on a sunny day now. None of what I experience, not even the thoughts and the "I" thought is any self/or real entity/controller. Those I thoughts are just thoughts and it happens that it is believed for a very short time and then released, but it is not any doer or controller... Just a passing thought, a habit in believing in the "I" thought might happen from time to time, but even that is seen and dropped. So there is no doubt, expect a distant little unformed thought far away.... but not believed anymore. It as well can be there till it leaves.
THere is nothing missing at all. Nothing needs to be added to what is right here. It is as before but more free. It is like a burden of the "me" has lifted away a weight from the body. Even the sensations,emotions, now not attached to the "I" thought, are welcome to stay and be felt. And if the labelling happens there is the knowing out of direct seeing that it is not true. The mind can not understand this, so the thoughts start trying to make sense of it all and then give up and the attention goes to what is here now. It feels like this is a fresh start and more is going to unfold.....
I want to thank you and thank you is not enough. There is huge appreciation here for you guidance. Hope to be able to do that also one day if Life want that to happen.... Is it okej if I keep in touch if something comes up that needs some good clear eyes and questions to be cleared. I will miss you and our dialog and there is a bit sadness here of letting go of this.... but all i well and I see you as my dear friend now. I wish you all the best and so happy that you are doing this. So many beings can do this, completele free. So amazing. "You" are amazing :-) Much Love
[/quote]
Dear Mica, so much beauty here. I am happy for you and feeling lots of appreciation for you. I will be happy to be friends after, and you will always be welcome to ask questions. Once you graduate from LU we can connect on the Unleashed forum of Facebook. Before that please answer the following questions. I and 3 other guides will look to see if anything can be further clarified. Maybe you can copy some of your last message into these questions, since you answer lots of it there, do as feels good, but we need it in the format below for the other guides. Also I can imagine you becoming a skilled guide when you feel ready for it. We can talk about that also after.
Please answer all the questions below in one message. Please make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
Thank You Elad,
I will and it is soo good that these questions are asked, to see if anything needs more clarification. Very happy for that.
Yes I will enjoy and take my time and come back to you when finished.
I will and it is soo good that these questions are asked, to see if anything needs more clarification. Very happy for that.
Yes I will enjoy and take my time and come back to you when finished.
Re: Thank You already
💗Thank You Elad,
I will and it is soo good that these questions are asked, to see if anything needs more clarification. Very happy for that.
Yes I will enjoy and take my time and come back to you when finished.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
Hello Elad,
Here comes my answers to the questions. There is some nervousness here and doubthoughts arising of "have I seen it or is it fading", but then thoughts of "But if now, then I just have to continue looking closer". Not believing those thoughts though. Hope to hear from you soon and to see if something needs some more looking to be clear. I am ready to work more if needen,
Much love and appriciation till then
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
The "I" (me/self) is not real. It is not an entity/form and has no shape. It is just a thougt like all other thought. It is there attached (like an appendix) to other thoughts (I am hungry, I am sad, I am this or that etc) It was never there, but seemed and seems at times to be there when believing (lost) in the content of the thoughts,
There is a sense/feeling of the "I" at times in the body, but that sensation is not what thought says it is, just a contraction or sensation that thought says "I am feeling this" and then maybe why I am feeling this and on and on it goes. It is all thought. When not getting lost there in thought content then life just is immediatly here. Sensations, feelings, sight and sound and passing thoughts are there but no self living life. Just life happening.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
The illusion of separate self starts when there is a sensation or feeling and thought comes with the I thought and claims it, For example a sensation of fear/happiness and thought pops up "I am scared/ "I am happy" and then more and more I thoughts attached to other thoughts can pop up (memories of past or fantasies of future) and then there is a whole story of Me.
Also when something happens or is seen or heard, thought comes in and association may happen to past memories of other similar happenings and filter that real experience so it is not seen/heard as it really is. There is this filter that colours that experience. For ex a noice just being what is heard/hearing the thoughts label it as very good or bad or nice or not nice.
There is also habits of thought/sor ot repeatin themes of thoughtpattern labeling immediately some sensations and feelings as something that is not true. Sensations and feelings are there and can be however they feel, but thought comes and says it is this and I am feeling this and it should not be this etc.
When attention get lost in the content of those thoughts and is believed then the I and the other thoughts seem real.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
The body feels much lighter, like some weight has been removed, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) It feels like a lot of tension and from the body has disappeared. Much less thoughts and much less getting lost in them. There is more calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. , unknown territory.....More resting and les restlessness. One day it is like this and the next, when challenges com up, there is "unpleasant" sensations, but they are welcomed to be and to leave when they wish. It feels a bit turbulent and everything being the same, yet more sence of easiness and more often just beingness,When thoughts come and I thought arises it is seen for what it is and easier to be left alone.
What is different? The body feeling lighter, more presence here and now, "unpleasant" sensations and difficult emotions arise but are not attached to en entity, just there without a story around it that thoughts make up.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I am not sure but it was very helpfull to see that sensations in the body have no inherent feelings or declaration of a self. Seeing that it is the thought that labels it so, but it is a misunderstanding. Without the label, what are they? Just sensation to be felt, just passing by till they leave.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
Decisions are taken spontaniously, There is may factors that contribute, like preference, circumstances, what is available etc that togehter contriute to what decision is made (not by I). Many times when lost in not knowing what to decide afte a nights sleep, suddenly the decison just is there clear. Like the brain does the job.
Intention seems to be there, but is a thought arising and a feeling of intention.
Free will is a thought, a belief that there is a separate self that controlls life and makes decisions all by itself. The reality is that many things affect what happens, like conditioning, culture, life circumstances etc. Life unfolds as it does and a sense of choice can be there, but everything is interdependant and all connected and it is impossible to see what it is that affects that a decision is taken.
Choices are made but have many different aspects that contribute to what action is taken. Like if I choose what to eat, it is what preference there is, what thought comes up of a delicious food of memory, what is here, what time there is, what resources is ther etc. All these and more are there togehter affecting the choise making. A sence of a I making choice happen can be there but looking carefully it is not so.
Controll: There is no controll over what the body does, what sensations and feelings arise, no controll over thoughts, no controll over what is happening in life. Thoughts come up of doing something and it is done or not done other times. Some thoughts make action happen, other thoughts does not. There can be a sense of controll but that is a sense and the I thought claiming "I decided to do this. There is no controll of what happens next till a thought arise of "I want to x". The inspiration to do something just appears and things get done.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
Things happen, a seed falls on the ground and grows into a tree. Does the seed know it is going to be the so called tree? The leaves fall off in the autumn and new leaves appear in the spring. Life is lifing and it is amazing and not understandable by the limited mind. As for humans: Accidents, sickness, happiness, sadness, seeking a job, moving etc etc happens the same way, but the mind is there with thoughts and labels and claims that it makes things happen. Life happens and it is all interconnected, everything affecting everything else. It is like a flow and unfoldning of life
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
I am not responsible (=to have control and authority over something or someone and the duty of taking care of it, him, or herfor anything. I am not responsible for anything at all, not for the breathing, the body, what happens in life, what thoughts come, what is done etc. That does not mean that I will go and rob a bank, because that is not the pattern that is in this body/mind. Another bodymind is doing it, but not responsible. with that I dont mean that we should not be compassionate and caring, but that comes naturally when we are not lost in thought but anchored in what is here now.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER: Thank You for doing what You are doing and thank you for this opportunity to write this down so it can been seen if something needs to be clarifyed and worked with to see more clearly. It was kind of difficult to put words on all of this. Very new experience (I am not a native english speaker).
Here comes my answers to the questions. There is some nervousness here and doubthoughts arising of "have I seen it or is it fading", but then thoughts of "But if now, then I just have to continue looking closer". Not believing those thoughts though. Hope to hear from you soon and to see if something needs some more looking to be clear. I am ready to work more if needen,
Much love and appriciation till then
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
The "I" (me/self) is not real. It is not an entity/form and has no shape. It is just a thougt like all other thought. It is there attached (like an appendix) to other thoughts (I am hungry, I am sad, I am this or that etc) It was never there, but seemed and seems at times to be there when believing (lost) in the content of the thoughts,
There is a sense/feeling of the "I" at times in the body, but that sensation is not what thought says it is, just a contraction or sensation that thought says "I am feeling this" and then maybe why I am feeling this and on and on it goes. It is all thought. When not getting lost there in thought content then life just is immediatly here. Sensations, feelings, sight and sound and passing thoughts are there but no self living life. Just life happening.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
The illusion of separate self starts when there is a sensation or feeling and thought comes with the I thought and claims it, For example a sensation of fear/happiness and thought pops up "I am scared/ "I am happy" and then more and more I thoughts attached to other thoughts can pop up (memories of past or fantasies of future) and then there is a whole story of Me.
Also when something happens or is seen or heard, thought comes in and association may happen to past memories of other similar happenings and filter that real experience so it is not seen/heard as it really is. There is this filter that colours that experience. For ex a noice just being what is heard/hearing the thoughts label it as very good or bad or nice or not nice.
There is also habits of thought/sor ot repeatin themes of thoughtpattern labeling immediately some sensations and feelings as something that is not true. Sensations and feelings are there and can be however they feel, but thought comes and says it is this and I am feeling this and it should not be this etc.
When attention get lost in the content of those thoughts and is believed then the I and the other thoughts seem real.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.
ANSWER:
The body feels much lighter, like some weight has been removed, more attention in the present moment to moment experiende (sounds, sights, sensations, thoughts coming and going...) It feels like a lot of tension and from the body has disappeared. Much less thoughts and much less getting lost in them. There is more calmness and a feeling of everything being completely allright exactly as it is. Ordinary yet more alive and somehow soft and a bit delicate. , unknown territory.....More resting and les restlessness. One day it is like this and the next, when challenges com up, there is "unpleasant" sensations, but they are welcomed to be and to leave when they wish. It feels a bit turbulent and everything being the same, yet more sence of easiness and more often just beingness,When thoughts come and I thought arises it is seen for what it is and easier to be left alone.
What is different? The body feeling lighter, more presence here and now, "unpleasant" sensations and difficult emotions arise but are not attached to en entity, just there without a story around it that thoughts make up.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
I am not sure but it was very helpfull to see that sensations in the body have no inherent feelings or declaration of a self. Seeing that it is the thought that labels it so, but it is a misunderstanding. Without the label, what are they? Just sensation to be felt, just passing by till they leave.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
Decisions are taken spontaniously, There is may factors that contribute, like preference, circumstances, what is available etc that togehter contriute to what decision is made (not by I). Many times when lost in not knowing what to decide afte a nights sleep, suddenly the decison just is there clear. Like the brain does the job.
Intention seems to be there, but is a thought arising and a feeling of intention.
Free will is a thought, a belief that there is a separate self that controlls life and makes decisions all by itself. The reality is that many things affect what happens, like conditioning, culture, life circumstances etc. Life unfolds as it does and a sense of choice can be there, but everything is interdependant and all connected and it is impossible to see what it is that affects that a decision is taken.
Choices are made but have many different aspects that contribute to what action is taken. Like if I choose what to eat, it is what preference there is, what thought comes up of a delicious food of memory, what is here, what time there is, what resources is ther etc. All these and more are there togehter affecting the choise making. A sence of a I making choice happen can be there but looking carefully it is not so.
Controll: There is no controll over what the body does, what sensations and feelings arise, no controll over thoughts, no controll over what is happening in life. Thoughts come up of doing something and it is done or not done other times. Some thoughts make action happen, other thoughts does not. There can be a sense of controll but that is a sense and the I thought claiming "I decided to do this. There is no controll of what happens next till a thought arise of "I want to x". The inspiration to do something just appears and things get done.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
Things happen, a seed falls on the ground and grows into a tree. Does the seed know it is going to be the so called tree? The leaves fall off in the autumn and new leaves appear in the spring. Life is lifing and it is amazing and not understandable by the limited mind. As for humans: Accidents, sickness, happiness, sadness, seeking a job, moving etc etc happens the same way, but the mind is there with thoughts and labels and claims that it makes things happen. Life happens and it is all interconnected, everything affecting everything else. It is like a flow and unfoldning of life
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
I am not responsible (=to have control and authority over something or someone and the duty of taking care of it, him, or herfor anything. I am not responsible for anything at all, not for the breathing, the body, what happens in life, what thoughts come, what is done etc. That does not mean that I will go and rob a bank, because that is not the pattern that is in this body/mind. Another bodymind is doing it, but not responsible. with that I dont mean that we should not be compassionate and caring, but that comes naturally when we are not lost in thought but anchored in what is here now.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER: Thank You for doing what You are doing and thank you for this opportunity to write this down so it can been seen if something needs to be clarifyed and worked with to see more clearly. It was kind of difficult to put words on all of this. Very new experience (I am not a native english speaker).
Re: Thank You already
Dear Mica, lots of clarity in this. And yes a process of further clarification will continue, we will talk about post-gate support and opportunities. For now two questions from me:
1) to be sure it's clear, does sensation in any direct way indicate feeling or intention, or can they only exist through thought association?
2) does any explanation of causality have absolute truth in direct experience, or can they only exist as thought that might be helpful or not at the conventional/relative level?
1) to be sure it's clear, does sensation in any direct way indicate feeling or intention, or can they only exist through thought association?
2) does any explanation of causality have absolute truth in direct experience, or can they only exist as thought that might be helpful or not at the conventional/relative level?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Thank You already
Also, do you have any doubt when you really look? Any doubt we should look at before we land here? Or is it clearly just passing thoughts, something that can seem real in a state of absent-mindedness and resistance?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
There is a lot of doubt here right now. I have seen there not to be Me, but somehow it does not stick.it is like There 1000% clearness is not there,there is resistance
... caught in strong emotions, sadness, fear and doubt. And I get sucked in it. Lots of confusion and tension and some feelings of giving up, but this is soooo important for "me"o I do not want to give up ..... What/who is giving up? What is there to give up?. Tears here coming up a good thing, letting go if some tension...sorry for this storm story :( . Just ridning these feelings....
1)no inherent feelings in sensations. Only thought that say that
2) the cause and effekct is hazy here. Can we clarify that?
I am exhausted right now, can't think clearly...sorry for all this mindstuff....
... caught in strong emotions, sadness, fear and doubt. And I get sucked in it. Lots of confusion and tension and some feelings of giving up, but this is soooo important for "me"o I do not want to give up ..... What/who is giving up? What is there to give up?. Tears here coming up a good thing, letting go if some tension...sorry for this storm story :( . Just ridning these feelings....
1)no inherent feelings in sensations. Only thought that say that
2) the cause and effekct is hazy here. Can we clarify that?
I am exhausted right now, can't think clearly...sorry for all this mindstuff....
Re: Thank You already
Yes, let emotion flow through. No need to apologize and no hurry, why should we hurry?
Re (2) look: if you explain that one thing causes another, for example a thought causes a feeling, just check if you can find in direct experience two separate things and one causing another or just one whole "flow" and a story about causality between two or many things, a thought about causality coming up after the fact?
When the emotions have had their space and you feel peaceful look if there is doubt about anything when you are fully present.
And watch this video:
https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=LalA2iilCL4lDokG
Re (2) look: if you explain that one thing causes another, for example a thought causes a feeling, just check if you can find in direct experience two separate things and one causing another or just one whole "flow" and a story about causality between two or many things, a thought about causality coming up after the fact?
When the emotions have had their space and you feel peaceful look if there is doubt about anything when you are fully present.
And watch this video:
https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=LalA2iilCL4lDokG
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Thank You already
Once you are calm and fully attentive, if you can find doubt about the existence of a self/doer in any way write me clear what it is.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
Hi,
Just want to tell you that I am still with sensations that feel like fear and the tension in the body. Letting it be as it is and trying to see all thoughts arising when they do.
Feels like my mind is exhausted.
" (2) look: if you explain that one thing causes another, for example a thought causes a feeling, just check if you can find in direct experience two separate things and one causing another or just one whole "flow" and a story about causality between two or many things, a thought about causality coming up after the fact?"
Without you pointing this I would have missed it, but I looked again and saw that a thought and the feeling emerged together, so not thought causing a feeling, so no causality but thoughts making a causality. There arises thoughts like why did I missed this and does this mean that I do not see clearly enough= Doubt thoughts.
This doubt is like I have only seen for so few times when I have done the exercises, like is that enough. My mind can't remember... Yes mind can not understand this and all this that I write is thoughts talking and they are not the truth.
There is a thought a fear iof saying that I see clearly. Like I want to be 100% sure and not fake it. Cant trust that I have seen. So I write again about it here to see if there is something more to investigate?
So here again what I have seen in my direct experience:
NO THERE Is no I/doer/controller: there is no controll of the thoughts or feelings or body sensations. That is very very clear. It is also clear that decisions are taken spontaneously, that association causality and free will does not exist in direct exp byt are thoughtbased/ thought creation. When lost in thought content and I thoughts then it is like a bad dream in which the I seems so real. I am sad, bad etc....and it is felt so and the stirye if me feels si real.When back in "sanity" the I is not to be found. It is just like with a bad dream l, it is so real but when you wake up from the dream it is very clear that the dream even if it felt so real was just imagined/fantasy. Ther is no separate entity that is controlling anything, it seems so obvious right in this moment. Forgetting happens when I get lost in thoughts.
While writing this, the tension is gone now and there is relief, just this and a little smile...this is helping somehow and I hope there is not too much text for you to read. So what is that doubt about? Wanting someone to tell me yes now you see, not able to trust that I see. Trust, faith in the process? Can't really find what makes me unsure. Maybe fear.
There is some beliefs her that needs to be dropped: 1) if I really see that there is no me then I would not get lost in thought
2) if I see that there is no me, then I should be able to be present and here and now all the time and see thought as just passing by without getting stuck and lost in them. 3)There should not be so much heavy "uncomfirtable" Sensations. There is surely more but these came up.
Hope this is understandable, feels like it is all over the place. Thank you for your patience. I continue sitting and letting feelings be and flow, sitting in meditation and labeling sight, sounds taking a walk especially when it is needed to get out of the mind...etc just to keep going and not get off this work. I sense that there is so much more to see. The video with Ilona about falling was soothing.....
Just want to tell you that I am still with sensations that feel like fear and the tension in the body. Letting it be as it is and trying to see all thoughts arising when they do.
Feels like my mind is exhausted.
" (2) look: if you explain that one thing causes another, for example a thought causes a feeling, just check if you can find in direct experience two separate things and one causing another or just one whole "flow" and a story about causality between two or many things, a thought about causality coming up after the fact?"
Without you pointing this I would have missed it, but I looked again and saw that a thought and the feeling emerged together, so not thought causing a feeling, so no causality but thoughts making a causality. There arises thoughts like why did I missed this and does this mean that I do not see clearly enough= Doubt thoughts.
This doubt is like I have only seen for so few times when I have done the exercises, like is that enough. My mind can't remember... Yes mind can not understand this and all this that I write is thoughts talking and they are not the truth.
There is a thought a fear iof saying that I see clearly. Like I want to be 100% sure and not fake it. Cant trust that I have seen. So I write again about it here to see if there is something more to investigate?
So here again what I have seen in my direct experience:
NO THERE Is no I/doer/controller: there is no controll of the thoughts or feelings or body sensations. That is very very clear. It is also clear that decisions are taken spontaneously, that association causality and free will does not exist in direct exp byt are thoughtbased/ thought creation. When lost in thought content and I thoughts then it is like a bad dream in which the I seems so real. I am sad, bad etc....and it is felt so and the stirye if me feels si real.When back in "sanity" the I is not to be found. It is just like with a bad dream l, it is so real but when you wake up from the dream it is very clear that the dream even if it felt so real was just imagined/fantasy. Ther is no separate entity that is controlling anything, it seems so obvious right in this moment. Forgetting happens when I get lost in thoughts.
While writing this, the tension is gone now and there is relief, just this and a little smile...this is helping somehow and I hope there is not too much text for you to read. So what is that doubt about? Wanting someone to tell me yes now you see, not able to trust that I see. Trust, faith in the process? Can't really find what makes me unsure. Maybe fear.
There is some beliefs her that needs to be dropped: 1) if I really see that there is no me then I would not get lost in thought
2) if I see that there is no me, then I should be able to be present and here and now all the time and see thought as just passing by without getting stuck and lost in them. 3)There should not be so much heavy "uncomfirtable" Sensations. There is surely more but these came up.
Hope this is understandable, feels like it is all over the place. Thank you for your patience. I continue sitting and letting feelings be and flow, sitting in meditation and labeling sight, sounds taking a walk especially when it is needed to get out of the mind...etc just to keep going and not get off this work. I sense that there is so much more to see. The video with Ilona about falling was soothing.....
Re: Thank You already
This is seems clear to me. Especially the part about expectations that selfing, being inattentive and negative, doubt, etc cannot come back if the seeing is clear, and that *these expectations are maintaining a wanting something else then what is experienced as true - i.e. no permanent solution or transformation to hold on to*.
We so much want an experience or a transformation that will ensure that we no longer again will feel unhappy, frustrated, insecure, with running thoughts, etc. I can say for me this is not the case and it is not the case for others I know close up.
All there is in this as far as I am aware is the degree to which we pay attention now, accept now, focus on something constructive or compassionate or loving or clear now. In my experience it doesn't get better then that. Awesome love filled awe filled experiences and frustrating depressing scary painful experiences come and go. The constructive kind of focusing might become more habitual and that is great. But is it a guarantee against return of painful unbalanced negative states, dementia, mental illness, social and health problems (conventionally speaking), etc. Not in my experience, that's for sure.
We so much want an experience or a transformation that will ensure that we no longer again will feel unhappy, frustrated, insecure, with running thoughts, etc. I can say for me this is not the case and it is not the case for others I know close up.
All there is in this as far as I am aware is the degree to which we pay attention now, accept now, focus on something constructive or compassionate or loving or clear now. In my experience it doesn't get better then that. Awesome love filled awe filled experiences and frustrating depressing scary painful experiences come and go. The constructive kind of focusing might become more habitual and that is great. But is it a guarantee against return of painful unbalanced negative states, dementia, mental illness, social and health problems (conventionally speaking), etc. Not in my experience, that's for sure.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Thank You already
In other words, there is no self to be permanently liberated and free from illusions. And reality is free from a separate self all ready, always has been.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Thank You already
Yet another way of saying it: when doubt arises things can go in two directions. If mind goes to speculation and thinking, doubt will continue or increase. If mind goes to direct attention to what is true beyond labels and thoughts, the doubt disappears. And yet, is this an insurance against the doubt appearing again - not in my experience. Searching and hoping for a final permanent solution and safety inherently takes us to the realm of speculation and doubt. Returning attention to what is directly experienced beyond discursive thoughts dissolve doubt.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
-
Pohjantahti
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Re: Thank You already
Wanted to write yesterday but could not come in here.
The storm is now over for now and the clear sky is seen. And the clear sky is always there even behind the clouds of the storm.
In a way it was very illuminating to see what getting stuck in the mind can create.
Right now here whatever is, is ok and if mindstorms come again that too is ok. Doubt, a thought believed is not here anymore. And if it arises, it is just a thought, nothing to believe in .There is nothing true whatsoever in thought! The minds creation is mindblowing.
This process with You have been so amazing actually.Years of meditating and reading has never given this seeing. The me character was niot seen to be untrue in direct experience, only in moments when the meditator disappeared in deeper states of metditationm. And yes there is a innerstanding that this is just the beginning and that the clarity will deepen and a lot of shedding the old will be happening. To welcome all of it, to love it and to acknowledge that it is there.Letting it be and be released when it is ready to be released.
A lot a words here written, just words. Just wanted to share and again thankful for Your guidance.
The storm is now over for now and the clear sky is seen. And the clear sky is always there even behind the clouds of the storm.
In a way it was very illuminating to see what getting stuck in the mind can create.
Right now here whatever is, is ok and if mindstorms come again that too is ok. Doubt, a thought believed is not here anymore. And if it arises, it is just a thought, nothing to believe in .There is nothing true whatsoever in thought! The minds creation is mindblowing.
This process with You have been so amazing actually.Years of meditating and reading has never given this seeing. The me character was niot seen to be untrue in direct experience, only in moments when the meditator disappeared in deeper states of metditationm. And yes there is a innerstanding that this is just the beginning and that the clarity will deepen and a lot of shedding the old will be happening. To welcome all of it, to love it and to acknowledge that it is there.Letting it be and be released when it is ready to be released.
A lot a words here written, just words. Just wanted to share and again thankful for Your guidance.
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