LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no Ego - Me - it's a thought , I have made myself up and appear to be separate ( through a thought )
There is a body , sensations , emotions , thoughts all changing and I have zero control over what appears...at least that's where I am now. I allow things to appear as they are
What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance... I have questions sometimes , as I can wobble between the fetters sometimes , I'm new to the fetter work but it is clicking with me very quick - i like to do things on my own ...but I am pulled inside to connect so I can get helpful guidance
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Sharp replies ;) what I mean by that I don't need essays but I would need a help in redirecting focus if when I'm lost ...f.ex I know there is no self , but I have lot of aversions in life - those aversions just are and it's hard just to observe them and not react even with thoughts that are pulling me to stories
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have had troubled childhood so I was always seeking the way to help myself to feel better ... Bible, Yoga, meditation, ....I was full of concepts and not even closer to feeling peace as nothing worked for me - it was more a bypass ...decided to lose all concepts , forget them , nothing worked ( dark time about 2 years ) found breathwork and I still practice that because it is releasing trauma from my body ... The more I released ,the more I was pulled to non dualism and Buddhism vipassana ( on and off now everyday practice )and now fetter work ... And here I am , it is not planned , I am even surprised by how it all unfolded as I was DONE with spiritual things 3 years ago ... Now I can't believe in the self anymore however I can be pulled via emotions and thoughts back to the stories and the self - so I wobble ;( and maybe I'm again all wrong about it , who knows , it would be good to talk about it with someone who experienced things too.... Last year I've had some openings on ...energetic level I feel I am in the mind ... I also disappeared along with others but those were glimpses moments here and there happening always when the least expected ...
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11
Todd Lent Guidance
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vegansatori
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2021 3:35 am
Re: Todd Lent Guidance
Hi!
Thanks for requesting me!
First off, what would you like me to call you on the forum?
From what you wrote, it sounds like you've already seen through the sense of self. When you say that you can no longer believe in a sense of self, is this an intellectual understanding, or does it really feel like an unquestionable certainty?
Do you still have doubts regarding it?
From a Fetter standpoint, what you're describing is more of an issue of Fetter 5 (aversion) and Fetter 2 (doubt).
Sometimes the doubt issue could be resolved with repeated seeing of no-self, and more time to integrate the insights into daily life. And sometimes it takes the resolution of old limiting belief patterns and habits that bind us into a more subtle, but pervasive form of identification.
LU doesn't really work with the Fetters per se. Mostly it deals with the first, maybe the first 2.
I would be willing to talk with you through the forum and see if there are any lingering threads that haven't been seen through with Fetter 1 yet.
Let me know how you would like to proceed.
Have a great day!
-Todd
Thanks for requesting me!
First off, what would you like me to call you on the forum?
From what you wrote, it sounds like you've already seen through the sense of self. When you say that you can no longer believe in a sense of self, is this an intellectual understanding, or does it really feel like an unquestionable certainty?
Do you still have doubts regarding it?
From a Fetter standpoint, what you're describing is more of an issue of Fetter 5 (aversion) and Fetter 2 (doubt).
Sometimes the doubt issue could be resolved with repeated seeing of no-self, and more time to integrate the insights into daily life. And sometimes it takes the resolution of old limiting belief patterns and habits that bind us into a more subtle, but pervasive form of identification.
LU doesn't really work with the Fetters per se. Mostly it deals with the first, maybe the first 2.
I would be willing to talk with you through the forum and see if there are any lingering threads that haven't been seen through with Fetter 1 yet.
Let me know how you would like to proceed.
Have a great day!
-Todd
That relaxation of the clenched "myself" feels like having been roused from a dream to find oneself alive and aware...Each moment feels fresh, different from any other, and entirely unspeakable...And that is sufficient.- Robert Saltzman
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Malata2602
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:11 pm
Re: Todd Lent Guidance
Good Morning Todd,
Thank you very much for your reply ! I appreciate it 🙏
Good question ; there is no person : each time I look for it I can NOT find it. What is that I experience ? The body , sensations, feelings, emotions , thoughts ... But there is not " I "that experience it it's just experiencing of it ... ( And it's all changing all the time apart from this knowing of it, observing it - this does not change- once when I was walking down the stairs at home for a second I saw my body from behind slightly to the left , and I questioned even that who was that saw it ? It was sense of me but I was dislocated from the body ) I never took any drugs - I need to add it. It's happening on its own .
I would say Body as a sense of self took me more time to lose because I did not see it changing so fast ;) but it's so obvious , if I cut a finger and I lose it I would not cry that I lost part of me I would not feel lesser me , so to speak .
Thoughts can pull me sometimes but I snap out of them quicker
What lingers are deep seated emotions : so my last experience was : what I perceived was rejection from a group of people . That hurt me. I asked myself what I was feeling and that was a feeling of not being wanted. I traced it back to childhood. I knew my mom did not want me - but this time I discovered very familiar thought : it was not safe to be me so I rejected the self .... 🥺 I reminded myself that thought ... I don't believe anymore in that so I allowed all the feelings and I changed that thought ....so something fell away even deeper....
But if there is no me ..what is it that is falling away ? Just the stories about Me ?
I see it more as stories being altered ... Because I'm still here in a body ...
I don't know where I am to be honest , and I don't know what is truth anymore and because I gave up with it things started to happening in me precisely I think because of that ... And that proved me also that I have zero control
I do work with the breathe everyday now -
I never had a feeling that Malwina Died. And nothing was scary like for other people . If anything happened it was natural process to see that she was never there in a first place just a story...
Revelation was to me that everything is really happening here and now . I can't find there or then 🤣 but I still use term of past and future to function here .
I'm very open to be told that I am still Me though because I experienced that Ego the story can jump on spiritual journey too ... So I could fool myself with the thinking although....I remember when I asked who was I ....and mind was quiet for a few seconds and then thought appeared : what kind of question is that ? I am Malwina.... But it was just a thought that came from nowhere and disappeared ...and that was sort of revelation to me during meditation ....
I have no goal in life at all if anything then life is being lived through me and although I don't plan anything things are happening anyway - again to prove zero control 🤣
Madness.
Thank you very much for your reply ! I appreciate it 🙏
Good question ; there is no person : each time I look for it I can NOT find it. What is that I experience ? The body , sensations, feelings, emotions , thoughts ... But there is not " I "that experience it it's just experiencing of it ... ( And it's all changing all the time apart from this knowing of it, observing it - this does not change- once when I was walking down the stairs at home for a second I saw my body from behind slightly to the left , and I questioned even that who was that saw it ? It was sense of me but I was dislocated from the body ) I never took any drugs - I need to add it. It's happening on its own .
I would say Body as a sense of self took me more time to lose because I did not see it changing so fast ;) but it's so obvious , if I cut a finger and I lose it I would not cry that I lost part of me I would not feel lesser me , so to speak .
Thoughts can pull me sometimes but I snap out of them quicker
What lingers are deep seated emotions : so my last experience was : what I perceived was rejection from a group of people . That hurt me. I asked myself what I was feeling and that was a feeling of not being wanted. I traced it back to childhood. I knew my mom did not want me - but this time I discovered very familiar thought : it was not safe to be me so I rejected the self .... 🥺 I reminded myself that thought ... I don't believe anymore in that so I allowed all the feelings and I changed that thought ....so something fell away even deeper....
But if there is no me ..what is it that is falling away ? Just the stories about Me ?
I see it more as stories being altered ... Because I'm still here in a body ...
I don't know where I am to be honest , and I don't know what is truth anymore and because I gave up with it things started to happening in me precisely I think because of that ... And that proved me also that I have zero control
I do work with the breathe everyday now -
I never had a feeling that Malwina Died. And nothing was scary like for other people . If anything happened it was natural process to see that she was never there in a first place just a story...
Revelation was to me that everything is really happening here and now . I can't find there or then 🤣 but I still use term of past and future to function here .
I'm very open to be told that I am still Me though because I experienced that Ego the story can jump on spiritual journey too ... So I could fool myself with the thinking although....I remember when I asked who was I ....and mind was quiet for a few seconds and then thought appeared : what kind of question is that ? I am Malwina.... But it was just a thought that came from nowhere and disappeared ...and that was sort of revelation to me during meditation ....
I have no goal in life at all if anything then life is being lived through me and although I don't plan anything things are happening anyway - again to prove zero control 🤣
Madness.
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vegansatori
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2021 3:35 am
Re: Todd Lent Guidance
Hi Malwina!
Sorry for the delayed response!
Okay, so I'm not sure what is quite the best path at this moment since you have a session booked.
I suspect we'll get more clarity on where you are and what needs to be inquired into when we are speaking face to face.
In the meantime, most of what you said sounds quite clear for having seen through self, except for a few little hold-ons that make me question if it's something that hasn't been let go of yet.
" And it's all changing all the time apart from this knowing of it, observing it - this does not change-"
This isn't so much a fetter one thing as it can be a fetter 8 "I am" kind of sensation, so I'm not prone to make too much of it yet. But have you looked into whether it really never changes? If you didn't have memory to rely on, then how would you know that to be true?
"What lingers are deep seated emotions..."
When we're talking about these emotional things, they can be things we work with in fetters 2/4/5. The sooner we get to them, the easier it makes the following work. I like your approach to being with what's there, recognizing its root, and then allowing it to be there or not, without getting hung up either way. But emotional issues still arise after seeing through first fetter self, so that's not a reliable marker.
"But if there is no me ..what is it that is falling away ? Just the stories about Me ?"
Essentially, yes. It's that thoughts that believe in the self-referential stories are becoming fewer, and less sticky. They are more easily seen through (by other thoughts... lol), and sometimes there are fewer thoughts in general, though this isn't always the case. But yes, it is the narrative stories that become less "real," while remaining more in the present, outside of thoughts of past and future.
"Because I'm still here in a body ..."
This sentence confused me because you'd already said that you had seen through body identification. ARE you in the body?
As you said, we do need to be careful that it's not all intellectual understanding and that you aren't just convincing yourself you've seen when you are still too identified to realize it.
But again, I do think it'll be easier to tell in person.
Until then, have a great night!
-Todd
Sorry for the delayed response!
Okay, so I'm not sure what is quite the best path at this moment since you have a session booked.
I suspect we'll get more clarity on where you are and what needs to be inquired into when we are speaking face to face.
In the meantime, most of what you said sounds quite clear for having seen through self, except for a few little hold-ons that make me question if it's something that hasn't been let go of yet.
" And it's all changing all the time apart from this knowing of it, observing it - this does not change-"
This isn't so much a fetter one thing as it can be a fetter 8 "I am" kind of sensation, so I'm not prone to make too much of it yet. But have you looked into whether it really never changes? If you didn't have memory to rely on, then how would you know that to be true?
"What lingers are deep seated emotions..."
When we're talking about these emotional things, they can be things we work with in fetters 2/4/5. The sooner we get to them, the easier it makes the following work. I like your approach to being with what's there, recognizing its root, and then allowing it to be there or not, without getting hung up either way. But emotional issues still arise after seeing through first fetter self, so that's not a reliable marker.
"But if there is no me ..what is it that is falling away ? Just the stories about Me ?"
Essentially, yes. It's that thoughts that believe in the self-referential stories are becoming fewer, and less sticky. They are more easily seen through (by other thoughts... lol), and sometimes there are fewer thoughts in general, though this isn't always the case. But yes, it is the narrative stories that become less "real," while remaining more in the present, outside of thoughts of past and future.
"Because I'm still here in a body ..."
This sentence confused me because you'd already said that you had seen through body identification. ARE you in the body?
As you said, we do need to be careful that it's not all intellectual understanding and that you aren't just convincing yourself you've seen when you are still too identified to realize it.
But again, I do think it'll be easier to tell in person.
Until then, have a great night!
-Todd
That relaxation of the clenched "myself" feels like having been roused from a dream to find oneself alive and aware...Each moment feels fresh, different from any other, and entirely unspeakable...And that is sufficient.- Robert Saltzman
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