Exhausted from seeking

[Elad]

Hi dear Marta, how are you?

[Marta40]

Hi Elad.
I barely slept last night as there was still so much energy. Energy, relief and exhaustion all at the same time. There was also some sadness and grieving, almost like I lost an old friend. Of course nothing was really lost as Marta was always just a thought, an image in my head. Even when thoughts come now, I can't believe them anymore - just like the Santa Clause thing. There is also some grieving for the old beliefs I had about spiritually and non-duality that I thought I had seen through but were still lingering. But mostly there is just relief that the search is over. Seeking has completely died as there is nothing to find.

[Elad]

Hi Elad.
I barely slept last night as there was still so much energy. Energy, relief and exhaustion all at the same time. There was also some sadness and grieving, almost like I lost an old friend. Of course nothing was really lost as Marta was always just a thought, an image in my head. Even when thoughts come now, I can't believe them anymore - just like the Santa Clause thing. There is also some grieving for the old beliefs I had about spiritually and non-duality that I thought I had seen through but were still lingering. But mostly there is just relief that the search is over. Seeking has completely died as there is nothing to find.

Beautiful dear Marta. Over here, that sounds as clear as can be. At such a point in the process we normally ask some final questions and let three other guides review the answers to see if anything can get further clarified. Would this feel like a good time for you to do this? We could also let it settle some and then see. In either case I'm with you as long as it is of use 🙏🤍

[Marta40]

Thanks Elad. Yes you can send the final questions.

[Elad]

Great :) please answer all these questions in one message and make it so it's easy to overview the Q->A structure, using the quote function for questions or just good spacing and answering after ANSWER. After recieving your answers I might ask questions from me or other guides. Response time can be longer as it depends on other guides too. Enjoy!


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:

6) Anything to add?

ANSWER:

[Marta40]

Hi Elad.
I will need another day to respond. I will send the answers tomorrow.

[Elad]

Hi Elad.
I will need another day to respond. I will send the answers tomorrow.

Take all the time you want and also lovingly give ample space to whatever feelings of grief or other feelings flow through, re your last message. With you.

[Marta40]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:
No and no.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:
It is a thought. The voice in the head + a thought image of the body and the belief that that somehow constitutes a separate entity or person called Marta. I can’t remember when it started for me but there would have been a time, probably during childhood, when verbal thoughts started, when a voice started in the head. Then later on there would have been an identification with the thoughts as being me or I am the one who is thinking these thoughts and that this “I” was Marta or pointing to something real called “Marta” that is somewhere behind the eyes doing the thinking.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days

ANSWER:
First there was sadness, then laughter, then grief. There was a feeling of something missing – like missing an old friend. Now there is just a happy okay-ness. In terms of differences, seeking fell away immediately. Not just in terms of non-duality or spiritually but seeking for anything to be different or better than it is right now. There is no urge to change anything that is happening and no more seeking in thoughts for anything. There are still thoughts but not judgmental thoughts and they are not a problem. Everything can just be as it is. There is way less resistance to what is happening. Also, during spiritual seeking I had become addicted to food and gained a lot of weight. No more obsessive thoughts about food. Even though the body feels hungry there is no real urge to eat. I need to remind myself to eat. This change is the most shocking and it was also immediate. Life isn’t as serious as it was thought to be.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:
I am a little unclear about this one. I’m not really sure what just happened. I had expectations that this was going to be a long process taking months or even a year and that we were just beginning the journey. When you asked after a week if I had seen through the illusion of separate self and if I had any doubts or questions it felt like my entire world had just crashed and there was so much disappointment that this was it. Then it seemed like all my beliefs about spiritually and non-duality came crashing down right after, so much crying and heartbreak then so much laughter and relief and now here I am, grateful.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:
Decision – when there are two different thoughts “ I want to go to the movies” and “I want to go to the park”. One thought is stronger “I want to go to the park” then the action of going to the park follows with another thought “I made the decision to go to the park” – however, this is just another thought. There is no “I” behind it that made the decision. It is just another thought saying “I made the decision”.

Intention – I have an intention to eat healthy today. However the words “I have an intention to eat healthy today” are just a thought. There is nobody behind that thought who has this intention so you can’t even say there is such thing as intention.

Free will – this is another thought, idea, overlay on what is happening. What gives rise to the idea of free will is the thought “I could have done this” or “I should have done this instead” – that the “I” is pointing to an actual entity that could have done something different, when the “I” is only a word / thought that is pointing to nothing. There is no entity behind the word “I” that could have or should have done something differently or that could have something called “free will”.

Choice – this ties in with decision. There is no person behind a choice. If I come to a fork in the road and I go left. Nobody did that. There was just going left. Now there could be a whole slew of thoughts about “should I go left or right etc” and then eventually one of the thoughts will win and there will be going left or right. However, thoughts aren’t even needed. If I was going really fast in a car and the fork just appeared in the road, the body would react and turn the car left or right – there would be no thoughts involved. It would be an automatic movement. No time for thoughts. Choice would be something added on later in the form of a thought “I chose to go left, what a great choice”.

Control – just another idea that there is someone in the body that is choosing and deciding to do things and has control over life. There is no control because control doesn’t exist outside of the idea of control and there is nobody who could or could have control anyways.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:
I don’t know. Things just seem to happen. I get out of bed in the morning, brush my teeth, feed the animals, make a coffee, turn on the computer and start working. I don’t know what makes any of that happen. There is not even thought involved in any of that. It’s just automatic. If the thought comes to make a cup of tea, I will get up and head to the kitchen. Movement follows the thought but that doesn’t mean the thought made anything happen and I don’t know what made the thought “get a cup of tea” happen - it just appeared. I don’t know what is causing the body to move – it’s just moving.

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:
Responsibility is just another idea that there is someone in here that has choice and control. That doesn’t mean that being responsible doesn’t happen. If I am driving and I rear-end someone, I will pay for the damages and might even say the words “I am sorry, I take responsibility for this accident” but that doesn’t mean there is an actual “I” that is responsible for the accident.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you for this Elad.

[Elad]

Dear Marta, 3 guides beside my self reviewed your answers. There were no questions, only appreciation for the clarity. This means you formally graduated from LU, even as you know there is no one to graduate and no one external authority who can recognize or not recognize that seeing is there. You will be contacted by someone, I think Nerina, with info about post-LU groups and options. For quite a lot of us it's very helpful or just enjoyable to talk with others who are seeing. If you join the LU Facebook group I will greet you there. I am happy to connect and you are always welcome to share with me more or ask questions if any come up. There are some resources we often send about "after crossing the gateless gate". In this case my sense is you can ask me for it over Facebook (or email if you don't use Facebook) when/if the wish comes. Or now if the impulse comes. How does all this sounds? Any questions? Warmly, Elad

[Marta40]

Wonderful, thank you again Elad. Yes, I already received a message from Nerina with all the information. I don't have facebook but I will most likely be making an account shortly to join the group and also hanging around the website! Everything sounds great, no questions right now. This is all wonderful!

[Elad]

Wonderful, thank you again Elad. Yes, I already received a message from Nerina with all the information. I don't have facebook but I will most likely be making an account shortly to join the group and also hanging around the website! Everything sounds great, no questions right now. This is all wonderful!

Happy to hear!! Thank you for an inspiring walk together and see you on FB ♥️🙏