Awakening

[jordan00]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that the perceived self is consciousness and results in an experience with our senses. While some people believe there is a "self" behind that, I have been convinced that the "self" is a non existent phenomenon, our brain has produced in the process of adapting to our environment.

What are you looking for at LU?
Transcendence of the ego. While I may see and understand that this is the case, I have yet to have an experience it with meditation. I am looking for guidance in seeing through this illusion and awakening to the truth of reality.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would expect someone to guide me to the path of no self, but still allow me to walk the path though with action and intent. I also would expect a lot of meditation, and require me to reflect upon my life experiences.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I do mindfulness every day with the goal of allowing my thoughts to just be thoughts and let my breath take control. When it comes to spirituality, I would say that I have a strong connection with the universe.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Bluejay]

Hi Jordan,

I'm Henri.

Welcome to the forum. I'd be happy to be your guide if you'd like?

If yes, then we can start...

If you haven't already, please read the disclaimer here: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/reg ... isclaimer/

And then have a look at what Liberation Unleashed is not in the FAQ: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some guidelines (you may already be familiar with most of this, but just in case):

1. Post at least once every 24 to 48 hours. I'm not strict about this, but I would prefer it if you posted regularly. If you can't, please let me know.

2. Pause any other teachings, rituals, books, and practices you are currently involved in. It is best to put all your effort into this inquiry for as long as it lasts. A meditation practice is fine, but anything else can be a distraction.

3. Technology can be problematic. I recommend you type your answers in a text editor like MS Word or Google Docs, and then copy and paste them into this thread. This way you avoid losing your answer if there's a technical glitch.

4. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to answer each question individually. Here are instructions on how to use the quote function if it is not already clear: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

And to start, I'd like to know your expectations. You don't have to use direct experience for this. Just share what comes to mind:

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?
2. How will you change?
3. What do you want or expect to be different?
4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

Enjoy! :)

[jordan00]

Hey Henry, I would love for you to be my guide.

How will life change when you realize there is no "I"

I don't believe life will change in any way. But my conscious perspective will shift and the previously formed "I" will cease to exist. Also, my senses will turn into awareness and the walls of a separate self will allow oneness with nature.

How will you change?

I will not change in any way, this false belief that I've held about "myself" will come crashing down and awareness will be the truth.

What do you want or expect to be different?

"I" expect a shift in my brain activity to my surroundings and the false beliefs about "Jordan".

What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

Saying that "I'm missing something" would be false, It's more like my human mind and thought patterns have formed to protect "my Identity", when there is "no" identity to be protected.

[Bluejay]

You almost got the hang of using quotes. Make sure you put my questions within the quotes.

I don't believe life will change in any way. But my conscious perspective will shift and the previously formed "I" will cease to exist. Also, my senses will turn into awareness and the walls of a separate self will allow oneness with nature.

Senses will not change. Oneness will likely not happen in the way you imagine.

In short, hold these things lightly :)

"I" expect a shift in my brain activity to my surroundings and the false beliefs about "Jordan".

Can you share examples of false beliefs and what a shift in brain activity means?

Saying that "I'm missing something" would be false, It's more like my human mind and thought patterns have formed to protect "my Identity", when there is "no" identity to be protected.

Another way of putting it might be: Is there something right now that you don't want (that will be removed when "I" drops)?

This could be feelings such as anxiety, or something like confidence.

[jordan00]

Sorry about that,

So the senses will not change, and when I say oneness, I mean awareness, if that makes sense.

Can you share examples of false beliefs and what a shift in brain activity means?/quote]

My whole life I have been convinced that there is a self.

Now that I'm thinking about it and I keep thinking "Nothing will change, because there is nothing to change"

Another way of putting it might be: Is there something right now that you don't want (that will be removed when "I" drops)?/quote]

Everything I think of seems like it's contradicting itself.

Yes I have had anxiety in the past but mindfullness and meditation has helped me be more present and aware of my thoughts without trying to change or stop them.

It's more about being able to see the truth of nature and reality.

[jordan00]

Sorry if I'm doing the quotes wrong

[Bluejay]

The quotes can take a while to get used to.

Here's an example (I'll use different brackets to show).

(quote)Put my question here(/quote) <- that's one quote

Then put your answer below that. You'll get it eventually :)

Okay so this all sounds reasonable. We may come back to expectations at some point as they tend to crop up later.

Now, are you familiar with direct experience?

There's a big difference between knowing (going to the mind for answers), and seeing (looking in direct experience).

For example: If I ask you what color your socks are, you can answer in two ways:

1. You can think of the answer and try to remember

2. You can take a look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in this very moment.

Direct Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[jordan00]

Yes those are very different things. While talking to you, I was going to my mind for my answers.

So only the direct experience matters right now. I got it!

I have to get ready for work but I will be sure to respond later tonight.

[Bluejay]

It's almost night time here in Europe, so I'll leave you with this pointer to explore for the next day.

Try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order on each line.

Also pay attention to how often your mind wants to label, judge, interpret, and make sense of everything.

[jordan00]

Hello, sorry I've been busy

Here is my first example when I was driving today-

Seeing the road and steering wheel= Image/Color
Smelling the outside air= Smell
Feeling the steering when in my hand/feeling my body on the seat/feeling the ac on my face= Sensation
Lingering taste of ginger tea that I had before I left= Taste
Hearing the effect of the tires on the road and the engine accelerating= Sound
Thought about what exercise I'm going to do at the gym= Thought

This is one of me right now-

Seeing my cup of green tea and typing on my laptop= Image/color
Smelling green tea= Smell
Feeling the keys on my laptop before my fingertips- Sensation
Taste of Green tea= Taste
Hearing the clicking of hitting the keys= Sound
Thought about the homework I have to do for School= Thought

Thank you for your patience

[Bluejay]

Hello, sorry I've been busy

No problem. Anything within 24-48 hours is perfect :)

Nicely done on the pointer!

Here's the next one...

This takes about 20 minutes and you will need pen and paper.

This exercise is broken into 2 x 10 minute parts. For each 10 minute part pay attention to any bodily sensation (is there any tightening, or any relaxing?)

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

- I am sitting on a chair
- I am hearing a clock ticking
- I am looking at a computer screen
- I am feeling hungry

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the second ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”.

Describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

- Sitting on a chair
- Typing
- Breathing
- Blinking
- Hearing the clock
- Hunger

(Watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Enjoy! :)

[jordan00]

Hey, hope you are doing well

I'll go ahead and give you my examples-

I am sitting on a chair
I am writing
I am driving
I am working
I am meditating
I am Thinking

Sitting on a chair
Writing
Driving
Working
Meditating
Listening
Thinking

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

From reflecting from the experiences when I didn't use the word "I" it felt more real, it was describing action versus describing an action from the subjective self.

What is here without labels?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that question.

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels just describe the experience, a label could affect the interpretation of an experience but I don't think it would affect the experience itself.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

When I used the term "I" it made my body feel more tense and it also constrained my senses to the self of "myself"

When I used verbs It made my body feel more aware and present to the experience of life. My senses felt more noticeable and my body was much more relaxed.

[jordan00]

Made an error, "it also constrained my senses the perceived self"

[jordan00]

"to the perceived self"

[Bluejay]

Good stuff!

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that question.

Another way of asking the question: What is here without thought?

When I used the term "I" it made my body feel more tense and it also it also constrained my senses to the perceived self.

Exactly!

This tenseness in the body is often an alarm for selfing. It's a good reminder to inquire if the opportunity is there.

When I used verbs It made my body feel more aware and present to the experience of life. My senses felt more noticeable and my body was much more relaxed.

This is a good hint for the question: What is here without labels? :)

Here's the next one:

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts about something, because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought about ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk about can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

- Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
- Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Enjoy and let me know what you find out :)