On Revealing the True Nature That Has Been There All Along

[freya]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is a construct that is made up by language and society. All that exists are sensations coming and going in this free space. Thoughts, emotions, and feelings are all just like clouds coming and going in the big sky. The fact that they exist does not make the big blue sky disappear, nor does it change the nature of it.

What are you looking for at LU?
I can see the illusion of the self, I can... It's just that there is something like a wall that does not go down for some reason.

Today, a big storm of physical pain arose, it was so strong that tears went down my face. and while that was happening, there was a voice that assured me that all this is, is nothing but a sensation. And for a few seconds, I could see objectively that this was JUST a sensation. Then fear came and stripped me out of reality.

This happens quite frequently. Whenever the reality, objectivity, and the true nature of the sky reveal itself, the fear comes in and takes it away. I want objectivity, I need the reality of all there is. That is what I am looking for here. I am not scared to see the truth, because that is what I have been burning for a couple of years now.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like someone's pointing finger to show me what I cannot see although it is there on the tip of my nose. All I need is the reality of what this is. Talking my way out to a friend, or better, to a person who could see this would be the most helpful way of getting rid of this illusion. Some days, emotions, and feelings are nothing but sensations. Then there are these other days that I'm inside this game we all play, pretending to be x or y. In those days, I feel so lost, really. Failing to see the reality is truly frustrating. It would be really nice to have someone who could point out what this "I" is in those days.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I always had this desire to see everything objectively since my teenage years. I would call it "the haze". At 17, I started reading about Buddhism and got into mindfulness around that time. At 20, I started reading about mysticism and met with Rumi and Hallaj Mansur. "I am Truth" by Hallaj became a Koan for me until the age of 24, until I slowly started realizing what that meant when I read Douglas Harding's "On Having No Head", which is a couple of months ago. 2 weeks ago, I was talking to a dear friend, saying I had this feeling that "I" did not exist, but I couldn't realize what that meant. He suggested I write here, and here I am.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[warissem]

Good morning

I am glad to accompany you during the investigation of seeing through the illusion of a separate self.
There are some agreements to engage with :

Check here in the forum every day or at least once per 2 days. This is important to take the flow of looking. If you are not OK with this, I will invite another guide for you.

Put aside all what you know about advaita, spirituality, oneness or whatever around this topic.

Read the disclaimer text and learn how to use the quote function (instructions are given on this forum).

Let me know when we can begin.

best wishes
Warissem

[freya]

Good evening,

Yes, I come here knowing nothing, leaving all my past seeking and spiritual beliefs I had, if I had any

I will be checking here at least once a day and reply.

Thank you for your willingness to help one.

I am ready to start :)

Freya

[warissem]

Hi Freya

What is coming up when you read this :

There is no you, no separate self in any shape or form.

Best for you

[freya]

I guess… a lot of confusion comes up. My first reaction is, “then why do some react in one way and then the other ones react the other way to certain situations?” But then again, I think of somebody who lost their memory and they would then be not “them” anymore if history of a person is the self, so that’s crossed out…

Every time I hear this sentence (self is not real), resistance comes up as to why that is wrong. And most of the time, I can make sense that yes, there is no separate self. But to feel it… There is just a lot of resistance.

Sorry if my message is all over the place, I am just trying really hard to make my confusion more ordered…

Jasmine

[warissem]

Hi Jasmine

Every time I hear this sentence (self is not real), resistance comes up as to why that is wrong. And most of the time, I can make sense that yes, there is no separate self. But to feel it… There is just a lot of resistance.

Look at resistance, is there a sensation in the body?
If it is so, look at it, welcome it and see what is behind this sensation.

You are doing good. We'll go step by step till you see through the illusion.

Best for you

[freya]

Good evening Warissa,

I have been repeating that this self does not exist, over and over again for the last couple of days. Yesterday I kept having nightmares which I rarely did before. I think subconsciously I am scared but even that is so deep down.

Look at resistance, is there a sensation in the body?

I waited for the day to finish to report my experience. Strangely enough, when I turn my attention to the resistance itself, it is not there anymore. I can feel the remnants of this resistance on my head and sometimes on my throat. The sensation is almost as if I am trying to push it away.


Nevertheless, I can’t be sure that is what arises. I’m always having doubts about what is happening in this body.

Jasmine

[warissem]

Good evening

I have been repeating that this self does not exist, over and over again for the last couple of days. Yesterday I kept having nightmares which I rarely did before. I think subconsciously I am scared but even that is so deep down.

It is not a mantra. You don't need to do that. Just answer to my questions and do the exercises I will give to you.

I waited for the day to finish to report my experience. Strangely enough, when I turn my attention to the resistance itself, it is not there anymore. I can feel the remnants of this resistance on my head and sometimes on my throat. The sensation is almost as if I am trying to push it away.

Accept it, welcome it and look at the raw sensation in the body leaving aside the label "resistance".

Nevertheless, I can’t be sure that is what arises. I’m always having doubts about what is happening in this body.

This is an investigation of the body :
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Best for you

[freya]

Dear Warissem,

I will try these today and tomorrow and will let you know what arises

Best wishes
Jasmine

[warissem]

Good morning

Waiting for your insights

[freya]

Dear Warrisem,

Here is what arise:

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No. There is no boundary that I can sense of. But for that matter I cannot “sense” my body either. There are just sensations that I label such as “my back is touching the bed.”

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

With pure awareness, no, it cannot be known, the weight, height nor the shape. And the only thing that can be known are sensations of the body, which maybe I cannot even pinpoint where in my visual field is this sensation.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

This one… I am not so sure about this. Because there is a sensation that I name as “feeling heavy”, but again that’s only a thing I label as.

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Two things arised:
1) there are inside and outsides of different objects: my cereal is in my bowl, there are organs inside human body….
2) “I” am not inside or outside of anything. I’m a part of things. But cannot locate where

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

This I’m not so sure… I want to say sensations, but again, the sensations I have, I only call them related to my body because I decide to link them together.

Very looking forward for your answer

Bests,
Jasmine

[warissem]

Good morning Jasmine

Here we are : you have done good observations but there is a comment on this :

Two things arised:
1) there are inside and outsides of different objects: my cereal is in my bowl, there are organs inside human body….
2) “I” am not inside or outside of anything. I’m a part of things. But cannot locate where

Give the answers eyes closed and after LOOKING AT direct experience : seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling and touching or sensations. Thoughts are used to communicate here. During this dialog look at direct experience and SEE or BE AWARE (know) the answer directly.

Example : when I ask what is the color of the sky now?
You can guess the answer from you saw this morning
Or you can look through the window and see the color of the sky.

We are interested in the second way of giving answers. I hope it is clear, if not let me know.

Best for you

[freya]

Dear warrissem,

I realised I am very puzzled by this question.

. Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Is there an inside or outside of what? What is the object here? I have been asking this question for a couple of days but my mind keeps asking „if what?“

Thank you
Jasmine

[warissem]

Good evening

Forget about the questions of the previous post for a while. I want you to be familiar with direct experience.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Best for you

[freya]

Hi warissem,

Okay, will give this a go and will write here the observations

Jasmine